Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Cannabis Seeds Zamnesia
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
which religious figure is the toughest?
    #1485214 -

who do you think is the toughest religious figure of all time:

jesus
mohammed
buddha
laozi
confucius
abraham
arjuna
bab

etc etc etc

I got my money on arjuna, that guy was a bad-ass muthafucka


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1485216 -

what an excellent question! Hmmm.. tough to answer though. Who's arjuna?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1485225 -

arjuna is a hindu figure, who is featured in a parable about killing, he is standing on a battlefield, and he asks krishna (hindu god...also bad ass) whether killing a man is good or bad, and krishna says something like, it is not the act that is bad, but the intent. if your intent is pure, then your act will be pure. (paraphrasing), so arjuna goes down to the battlefield and kicks some ass


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1485233 -

basically, the story is about the conflict between ones dharma (desiny) and karkma. if a person's dharma is that of a soldier, and killing is a bad thing, then how can they possibly live their lives? the answer is, one must be selfless as they carry out their duty. when killing a soldier, you should not focus on defeating the individual, or the benefits that will arise, but carry out your duty...selflessly....or something like that...my hindu is a little rusty


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1485234 -

*karma


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1485235 -

Does king arthur count? Or is he the toughest politician?

Hmmm.. I'm going to have to go with an immortal here: How about the monkey king? If I remember correctly he ate a peach of immortality and then became immortal and wreaked havoc. Like one time he pulled a plug out of the bottom of the ocean and released the hurricanes. He's Chinese.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1485238 -

the monkey king is rad!, hes definitly one of the toughest, ive seen a sweet little statuette monkey king doing some kung-fu


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1485239 -

Jesus kicks some serious ass. He's a big tough carpenter and beat up and drove all the money changers out of the temple. Then he get the beating that would kill 20 ordinary men and crucified and killed but comes back to life. In revelation he kills so many people there's hardly anyone left.  :shocked:


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1485303 -

hahah what a funny thread....

I reckon Aries, the Greek God of War, or Hades, or Zeus, or even Poseidon.. All those guys seem pretty "tough" to me..

:tongue:

With Metta,
Jono. 


--------------------
Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1485365 -

basically, the story is about the conflict between ones dharma (desiny) and karkma. if a person's dharma is that of a soldier, and killing is a bad thing, then how can they possibly live their lives? the answer is, one must be selfless as they carry out their duty. when killing a soldier, you should not focus on defeating the individual, or the benefits that will arise, but carry out your duty...selflessly....or something like that...my hindu is a little rusty


i hope one day humanity will stop believing that its ok to kill for ANY reason.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1485584 -

sure, but which god is sexiest?


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1485888 -

well....
for pure feminine sexuality, prolly aphrodite/venus...
but for out-n-out screaming craziness sexuality, maybe, ummmm eris???
~
& for the chicas, well, hermes/mercury has a certain, well, reputation...
& then there's always pan priapus for that marathon ogriastic sorta too-orgasmified-to-sit feeling...
~
and ganymede does have his supporters out there in the male gay community...
and as for wimmin from lesbos, well... i dunno if sappho was actually divine, but she was supposed to be quite the divine lover & poetess, from what i hear... (of course, the patristic usurpers destroyed most of her plays and poems...)
~
~
oh, and for the toughtest deity... well, i have always sorta had a grudging respect for odin, who was willing to hang from a tree in order to wrest a kenning from death's own maw... and for his willingness to lead his band of asgard folk (& their mortal allies) into the final battle ragnarok, which is promised to spell destruction for the universe (as we know it...)(and of course his ruggedly handsome offspring, thor odinsson, god of thunder & wielder of the great hammer...
~
~
now, as to whether monkey king, great sage equal of heaven, was actually a god... remember what happened when he met the buddha (& pissed at the base of one of the great pillars at the end of the earth :wink: ...)
~
~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

Edited by gnrm23 (04/23/03 11:47 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1485903 -

oh, and arjuna was not a god, but a man (a great king, found in the hindu epic _mahabarata_, some of which is told as _bhagavad gita_) who is fretting over a great battle looming the next day, in which he must kill a bunch of his cousins who are challenging his right to rule... and he seeks counsel from his charioteer, who is also the divine being krishna, an avatar of vishnu... who tells him to do what he must, but dedicate the fruits of his labors to krishna as an act of devotion (bhakti yoga)... which arjuna does, and pretty much sweeps the field the next day, killing kith and kin, dedicating all of the slaughter to lord krishna...
all in all, a fun story, no?
~
~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1486330 -

i never said he was a god!

yeah..arjuna is a bad ass motherfucker.

loner: "i hope one day humanity will stop believing that its ok to kill for ANY reason."

an interesting idea, but...why dont you put yourself in Arjuna's position. you dont want to fight, but if you dont, your home will be destroyed, your wife raped, and your family murdered. hmmmmm........well..maybe I'm just another primitive component of "humanity", but I would pick up my sword and fight till the death.

I agree with you of course, but lets be realistic, violence is an aspect of humanity, and it always will be.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1486341 -

word up

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1486358 -

I agree with you of course, but lets be realistic, violence is an aspect of humanity, and it always will be.

its an aspect that is a choice... we choose to have countries, we choose to have leaders, we choose to have armies... whats left but to wage war and declare the winner the righteous? this may go on until humanity perishes but its FAR from human nature.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1486375 -

I have always wondered, is violence an aspect, or a component of human nature? does human nature have fixed characteristics, or is it infinitly malleable? but I think, because of our evolution, violence is a fixed component of our nature...we have needed violence (against human or non human) for a very long time in order to survive. So, it has become engrained in our genetics and it dictates our behaviour.

This doesnt mean it has to result in war, but its there...and its gonna be there for awhile...a long while. it can be controlled and focused...like boxing. but....there is a fixed amount of rescources, an an escalating population...so...somebodies gonna have to die, right?


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1486384 -

I've read that murder is commonplace in hunter gatherer societies. There's a nutty story in Guns Germs and Steel where this band of stone age humans are having a fight as a helicopter lands and a white guy makes contact with them for the first time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1486395 -

Isn't murder just as common in industrialized societies with guns and missiles?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1486404 -

well I would think yes, which makes me think that maybe the amount of murderers per capita hasn't changed throughout history...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1486442 -

yeah, one of the main critiques of anarchy is that the rate of violence and murder will skyrocket, but that is total b.s. sure, murder will definitly become more common in everyday life, but without a government, there will be no wars ie-no bombs, so...I think things would balance out.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1486447 -

"i hope one day humanity will stop believing that its ok to kill for ANY reason."

-LoOnEr April 23, 2003

"i had a human life in my hands before, i could have killed him if i wanted too? that feeling is one of the greatest i've ever had."

-LoOnEr April 17, 2003


I suppose it's good that you didn't. Good for you. I hope one day humanity will be free from hypocrites who spout undefensible, simplistic, absolute "Truths" without regard for their obvious flaws.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1486509 -

kallisti
well, aphrodite definately had the smarts to know what any good-ol' boy would want most.

fnord!

dionysus for sure
and well, we all know about krishna and those milk maids

as for the toughest
YWYH - KABOOM!


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1487085 -

I'd have to acknowledge Satan as probably the toughest son of a bitch of the lot.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO]
    #1487201 -

"i had a human life in my hands before, i could have killed him if i wanted too? that feeling is one of the greatest i've ever had."

did i kill anyone? i was acting on self-defense. i was attacked, the fight went on for about 20 minutes, until i was able to choke him and get him off of me. after it was over, whether it was the adrenaline or the feeling of POWER, it WAS the greatest feeling i've ever had. this has nothing to do with my beliefs.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1487209 -

"this has nothing to do with my beliefs."

Clearly not. Nor does a self-described "anarchist" getting off on "POWER" over another person's life.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO]
    #1487226 -

Nor does a self-described "anarchist" getting off on "POWER" over another person's life.

i am not immune to the emotions of my humanity. this is not saying power is acceptable. there is a difference between consciously acting out power over another individual for the sake of self-benefit, and the FEELING of power after a confrontation for my life.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1487228 -

So you admit that lust for power is a normal human emotion?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO]
    #1487232 -

YES!!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1487242 -

Then how can there ever be anarchy?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO]
    #1487252 -

when people deny their human emotions and base their actions on ideals and principles.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1487605 -

Its a choice that was made a long ass time ago. We can't change 2000+ years of history


--------------------
AH HA....

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1488007 -

"when people deny their human emotions and base their actions on ideals and principles."

Ah, yes. Throwing humanity aside and chasing after "ideals and principles". What a wonderful thing it is :smirk:

Edited by OOOO (04/24/03 12:13 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO]
    #1488011 -

start new anarchy discussion thread!

But I thought that all you had to do to get rid of satan is not accept him. That doesn't sound very tough at all. My gramma could kick his ass.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1488076 -

The idea of LIBERTY is that no one may by force or threat of force impose their will upon another person. No one forcefully controls you, and you do not forcefully control anyone else. Everyone lives in peace, respecting eachother's liberty.

The idea behind anarchy is really the same thing, no?

Edited by OOOO (04/24/03 12:41 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1488519 -

well, loki is one tough god, but he ain't no friend of mine...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1488522 -

oh yeah, and good ol' coyote...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO]
    #1488946 -

yes it is, the key word for anarchy is freedom, although democracy promises freedom, it doesn't necessarily happen, because freedom can be trounced and spit on by the majority... ie.. drug laws, mandatory drafts...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1488958 -

Yes, democracy is tyranny by the majority. This is why there are constitutions. They are there to protect the rights of the few even when threatened by the many.

Anarchy cannot last for any meaningful period of time. Before long, people will start forcefully imposing their will on other people.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO]
    #1489145 -

Yes, democracy is tyranny by the majority. This is why there are constitutions. They are there to protect the rights of the few even when threatened by the many.

whos protecting my right to smoke marijuana?

Anarchy cannot last for any meaningful period of time. Before long, people will start forcefully imposing their will on other people.

why? if power does not exist in a structured format, then what would be the reason to impose force on another?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1489203 -

"whos protecting my right to smoke marijuana?"

No one is; and so, this right is being taken away by someone.

"why? if power does not exist in a structured format, then what would be the reason to impose force on another?"

What do you mean by power not existing in a structured format?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO]
    #1489483 -

What do you mean by power not existing in a structured format?

politicians, corporations, laws...etc

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1489607 -

In that case we can translate:

"why? if power does not exist in a structured format, then what would be the reason to impose force on another?"

to

"why? if politicians, corporations, and laws do not exist in a structured format, then what would be the reason to impose force on another?"

To steal something you desire, to kill someone you hate...

Just laws do not give people a reason TO impose our their upon other people. Rather, they seek to force people NOT to.

"Do not forcefully impose your will upon another person": This is a rule to be followed. Are there rules in anarchy?

One thing human social evolution can teach us is that where there is no law, power is quickly grabbed up by those in the best position and strongest motive to take it.

You will say that anarchy can only exist when people collectively agree that LIBERTY is to be respected and people are to be free to do as they please, so long as it does not harm another individual. Is this not a rule? a social policy? This agreement is not the foundation of anarchy, but of a rightous government.

What happens when someone does not respect liberty?

Liberty is an agreement amongst people; it is a social policy. It must be enforced, or it is taken away. This is demonstrated by tens of thousands of years of social evolution.

A rightous government exists only to protect LIBERTY. In anarchy, there is no one to defend liberty, and it quickly dissolves.

In a free society, are we not bound to respect liberty? Is this not a rule to be obeyed? How can there be liberty in a system where people are not bound to ANY rules?

About "corporations" being a part of the power structure: corporations are nothing more than a consensual pooling of resources betweeen people as an investment. They are not legally permitted to use force to impose their will upon anyone. You say there should be no corporations in anarchy? I should not be able to get together with ten of my peers and collectively start a business with them? How is this liberty? and who will enforce this anti-corporation law?

Similarly, who will enforce the rule against politicians and laws?

How can you not see the dilemma in the idea that there can be a system in which their is but one rule: no rules. ?

The notion is in itself a contradiction.

A good government is there to enforce and protect liberty, and never to take it away.

If you equate anarchy with liberty, then a good government is in place only to *preserve anarchy*.

When 'government' becomes synonymous with 'control', and itself is liberty-defeating, then it is not a government, but a tyranny.

Unfortunately, this has usually been the case. A few hundred years ago, some people set out to change that and create a rightous government founded on liberty. Unfortunately, they placed too much trust in democracy and as a result, it has gotten off track.

Edited by OOOO (04/24/03 04:27 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1490476 -

And you're still an anarchist, no?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO]
    #1490715 -

"why? if politicians, corporations, and laws do not exist in a structured format, then what would be the reason to impose force on another?"

To steal something you desire, to kill someone you hate...

the desire of man is not to kill or steal, its to live in peace. strip man down to the pure individual, in a state where no other forces are acting on him, this would be the natural state of man, there is nothing to steal in this state, nothing to kill, he exists and that is enough. only in this purest state will man be truly free from the evils of this world, and this state can only be achieved when there is no acting forces on him, no structured society where he must struggle to live.

Just laws do not give people a reason TO impose our their upon other people. Rather, they seek to force people NOT to.

laws act against the individual, by limiting thought and action. "force" goes against all that is human and serves to corrupt the individual into believing he is not a pure being that can make his own concious decisions about whats right and wrong.

One thing human social evolution can teach us is that where there is no law, power is quickly grabbed up by those in the best position and strongest motive to take it.

there has never been a society where people have lived under no law, except that of the native americans... and let me quote Thayendanegea...
"in the goverment you call civilized, the happiness of the people is constantly sacrificed to the splendor of the empire. hence the origin of your codes of criminal and civil laws; hence your dengeons and prisons. we have no prisons; we have no pompous parade of courts; we have no written laws"

A rightous government exists only to protect LIBERTY. In anarchy, there is no one to defend liberty, and it quickly dissolves.

no, there is ONLY liberty and freedom in anarchy, nothing to take from somone and nothing to gain, the nature of man will shine through and the beauty of humanity can be seen.

A good government is there to enforce and protect liberty, and never to take it away.

a government is there to make laws day after day, there is no stopping it, it is its only purpose and it will continue until the end of time.... before long the straightjacket becomes so tight, that human nature is stifled and only the contempt, hate, and death will be seen, further propagating more reasons to regulate, the cycle will continue, always justifying itself, but never getting to the problem, that which is itself...

Unfortunately, this has usually been the case. A few hundred years ago, some people set out to change that and create a rightous government founded on liberty. Unfortunately, they placed too much trust in democracy and as a result, it has gotten off track.

i agree, but they placed to much trust in GOVERNMENT, and not enough in the individual.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1490762 -

Anarchy would last somwhere between 5 minutes and half an hour. I've linked this thread to the political board. It's probably better to take this debate there.

Edited by OOOO (04/24/03 06:50 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO] * 1
    #1490821 -

Shiva is pretty tough.


--------------------
--------------------
We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1490830 -

anarchy discussion BEGONE!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1491862 -

DIE ANARCHY DIE YOU DIRTY BASTARD!!!!!!!!


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1491966 -

ok, back to the most badass religous figure.

muhammad?

oh! I heard of him, yea, he could kick some ass! And i liked those little rymes he did too. But he did get his ass kicked once, by that big guy... what was his name? oh yea! Joe Frazier. but now he has michal J Fox desease, so anyone could probly beat him now.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: domite]
    #1491999 -

ha.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Dead religious figures zahudulallah 1,534 11 04/07/05 03:11 PM
by hobgoblin
* A NEW HOPE - GODianity.... Living with TRUE Selfless Positive Intentions Towards Others.... PhanTomCat 1,382 10 03/19/05 10:26 PM
by niteowl
* Question to religious people
( 1 2 all )		 vampirism 1,884 24 01/04/06 05:56 AM
by LifeIsSweet
* The most selfless thing one can do thatiAM 1,246 11 11/06/06 08:38 AM
by Tahoe58
* Matrix's Religious Connections LuNaTiX 2,032 10 08/21/05 07:19 PM
by LuNaTiX
* Religious Experience
( 1 2 all )		 Huehuecoyotl 2,679 21 07/24/05 11:20 AM
by BlueCoyote
* Selflessness Alnico 669 2 06/20/07 01:23 AM
by BrainChemistry
* Pick the psychotic from religious and drug experiences enotake2 1,341 12 02/26/03 02:05 AM
by Grav

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
3,559 topic views. 1 members, 19 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.043 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 16 queries.