Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

Community > Physical and Mental Well-Being
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Injection Grain Bag

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 |  [ show all ]
How to deal with physical pain
    #14768505 -

Somehow this seems like a good site to discuss this on...

I've been dealing with a spine issue since I was sixteen.  It used to just affect my lower back, but at 25 it's now causing some pretty major issues with my neck and shoulder.  The constant pain from all these areas has made life pretty tough for the past five years.  It's been hard holding a job, the issue puts pretty significant limitations on my mobility when it gets really bad, so I can't do physical labor.  I ended up working in an office for a while but due to all the desk work it was actually worse... it's like every part of my body had a pinched nerve.  Didn't feel good.  Ended up in tears sometimes it hurt so much.

I've been trying to soldier on regardless.  I try to keep up with a gym regimen, though I have to avoid certain exercises because they just make things worse (benchpress wrecks my shoulder no matter how good my form is, deadlift is murder on my back no murder how good my form is).  Running is amazing for short-term relief, though it's pretty difficult to get going initially.  I do stretches pretty regularly as well as moderate yoga.  I don't drink alcohol or coffee.  I used to do drugs but I ended up using it as a crutch for a year or two, kicked the habit.  Better for me physically to be without, mentally probably too but I can't deny missing the escape.

I've been feeling really depressed for a couple years now, just because all the work I'm putting in to try and have a life in spite of the pain and being unable to build due to the pain.  Jobs come and go because of it.  I don't have a girl, I'd like to but at the same time I don't want someone to feel like they're my caretaker.  I used to play guitar and drums a lot, wrote songs, was in bands, but I can't anymore.  Guitar causes too much shoulder pain, and drums. Well.  My low back.  After a few minutes, I just can't sit in the stool anymore.  It makes me sad that I can't enjoy these outlets anymore.

Suicide is something that's been coming into my mind a lot lately.  I know there's a stigma with it, but I want to discuss it a bit.  I don't want to do it as a statement, I wouldn't do it publicly (like some people jumping off buildings, in front of trains, etc.), I'm just really tired of the pain.  I personally have known someone who killed themself, so I know of the damage it can inflict, but at the same time life is incredibly rough at this point and I find it hard to imagine life getting better.  I'm already putting a lot of work into it.  A lot of the time I'm exhausted because of how much effort it takes just to make the pain manageable.  I've tried medication for it but it makes me feel... well, sorry for putting it this way, but fat and lazy.  Medication removes the pain, but it also removes any motivation or drive.  I just want to laze around and eat.

But suicide is.  Well.  Not good.  It's final.  I want to live, but pain is brutal, it's putting a damper on so much.  Even typing this, sitting here, I'm going to have to do some work once I get up.  It's gotten pretty bad, and I don't know what else to do.  Advice?  Debate?  Anything.  I just need to air this, and maybe (hopefully) get something new out of it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: happymealplease]
    #14769556 -

You are inspirational mang!

I really commend you for giving up drugs to make an honest attempt. That is definitely something that is impressive. You seem like a really strong person and that is good for your situation.

I dont know much about pain or anything. Do you have swelling or inflammation?

Maybe you could see a doctor or physical therapist. You might be able to strengthen your back somehow and prevent so much pain. A proffesional could tell you how.

I am glad you want to live. Keep trying hard like you do and I think you will eventually find a way.:laugh::thumbup:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: XUL]
    #14777255 -

Have you ever tried swimming?  I recently started and it helps a ton with my back pain.  Plus, water is nice a therapeutic anyway.  I hope things get better for you.  :smile:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: cogent]
    #14785880 -

sounds rough man. I am truly sorry you have to deal with this. Life just isn't fair a lot of the time. Look into vipassana meditation, the guy who promotes used to suffer from horrific migranes and it helped him learn to deal with it. I've done a course and I think it could help you. The only problem is you have to sit for 10 hours a day--lots of pain without back problems...good luck man, you are an inspiration. website is dhamma.org, courses are free (donation) ...


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and  you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.

Edited by JackofSpades (07/18/11 12:59 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: happymealplease]
    #14785927 -

OP, go to a doctor and get some help man. It seems to me like the pain you are experiencing is taking it's toll on your quality of life and that is no way to live. Suicide is NOT the answer, treatment is the answer.

happymealplease said:
I've tried medication for it but it makes me feel... well, sorry for putting it this way, but fat and lazy.  Medication removes the pain, but it also removes any motivation or drive.  I just want to laze around and eat.



What all have you tried as far as medication goes? Tell your doctor your concerns and see if he can give you something that can ease your pain without making you feel "fat and lazy"


--------------------
:mushdance:



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: cogent]
    #14786069 -

cogent said:
Have you ever tried swimming?  I recently started and it helps a ton with my back pain.  Plus, water is nice a therapeutic anyway.  I hope things get better for you.  :smile:



oh yea. definitely swimming. Good call. A lot of holder people swim becase it helps strengthen your muscles yet it is very easy and smooth on your joints and entire body.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: XUL]
    #14795659 -

Thank you for the replies.

I do go swimming occasionally, try to go once a week. It can be pretty busy but just finding a place to tread water peacefully is worth it.  It does feel great being in the water, but about thirty minutes after I get out the pain returns.  Aside from the pain issues I'd say I'm in pretty good shape, what with the gym/running/swimming, the endorphin release is amazing, but for all of them it's pretty short-lived relief.

I used to meditate a lot too, but the extended sitting became too much.  I still do it when I can, but the pain can make it pretty frustrating and I have to pace meditation days..  Attempted doing it laying down a few times but I always just end up falling asleep.

I have been to the doctor about this, which is part of the frustration (seeking medical help and not getting any relief).  My L3 & L4 vertebrae are fused together, and over time a section of my thoracic has fused as well (I forget which two exactly).  As far as treatment goes, it started off with just some physio and stretches, which to be quite honest were pretty much ineffective (ever since quitting drugs I've been pretty adamant about doing yoga/gym eating healthy etc. so what I learned/what was done was essentially redundant).  After a while of doing that it ended up going the medication route.  I've obviously tried over-the-counter with daily Advil or taking a Robaxacet whenever it gets really bad.  Advil helps a bit with the headaches but not much else, Robaxacet makes me feel really nauseous.  First prescription was an NSAID (forget which one) which gave me really bad stomach cramps, I went through a few of these with similar effect.  Ended up trying a couple anti-depressants because there was some sort of theory of them reducing pain, or at least assisting shift my outlook on the pain... those pills are really fucked up.  Steroid injections have been discussed but after my stint with drugs and toying around with prescriptions, I'm really not into putting more shit in my system just to see.  It seems to be more guesswork than anything, until they can prove to me that I have condition "X" and treatment "Y" is the best approach I find myself pretty reluctant to any form of chemical treatment.  Sober may be boring, and sober may be painful, so yeah, sober kinda sucks right now, but at least it's consistent.

I do have a full body MRI planned, but it'll be at least a year before I get in for that.

Been in and out of therapy groups.  It's given me some insight into my situation, but I don't find relief there.  It actually got me pretty depressed for a while, because I was seeing other people who were living with pretty brutal pain as well, except some were older.  And they had been battling it their entire lives.  Fighting like I have.  With no result.  Their bodies were just fucking them over and increasing the intensity as time went on.  Like resisting, attempting to control or relieve, is futile.  Made me feel like it was better to just curl up int he corner and cry until I passed away.  Not something to think about.  Makes me feel like shit, because I think there's a lot of truth in it.  Pain is pain.  It'll come and go regardless of you are.  We all have some sort of timebomb inside of us.  I'm pretty unhappy because mine seems to have gone off ultra early.

Good news is weather has been really nice recently.  Ridiculously nice.  Went for a bike ride in the park.  You know, this hurts too.  It seems like everything inflicts physical pain these past few years.  But I just focus on getting up a tough hill and having fun going downhill.  Enjoy feeling the sun.  The pain sucks though.  Can't ignore it.  Gets so bad sometimes I really want to break something, or hurt myself.  Dramatic yes, but when frustration comes to a peak, well.  Logic and reason seems to say that no, I'm not fit for survival, why do I keep stubbornly trying, maybe I'm just being a coward by trying to continue to live.  Running from the fear of death.  I don't want to inflict pain on people.  But I work my ass off to try and cope and relieve this, and I keep getting shit on.  I'm finding myself getting overwhelmed with frustration more often lately.

Have to wrap it there.  I'm exhausted and need to sleep.

EDIT: I feel a strong urge to say that I know it could be worse.  I also feel that my pain is essentially meaningless, since I'm not even a blip on the radar in the scope of the universe.  I'm small and fragile and weak.  I may be the outcome of a cosmic accident or the intentional creation of an omnipotent overseer.  I might die and come back to live a more troubled existence, or I might die and come back as a God in my own right.  Noone knows for sure what's going on.  The idea is to grasp the concept of my current existence and how to deal with it.  Not to compare to others or debate "What if?".  What I'm ultimately questioning is, if my life is just going to be pain from here on out, regardless of what I do, then what is the point of living?  To simply carry my life out, as opposed to ending it to end my pain and potentially inflicting limitless pain on several others?  Is that alone a reason to shut the fuck up and deal with feeling robbed of youth and the capacity to take charge and mold my own life?

Edited by happymealplease (07/20/11 01:47 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: happymealplease]
    #14796348 -

You should try hydrocodone.


--------------------
:tigerbunny:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: happymealplease]
    #14796433 -

I feel you man. I have been fortunate to have a fairly pain free life, though my hand is fucked up pretty bad right now. My sister had surgery on her upper neck, and is dealing with post-surgery pain, years after the fact. Its only a matter of time before they have to operate again to prevent the vertebrate from becoming impacted or something. She is in a lot of pain I guess, and it really sucks knowing shes suffering like that.

Seems so unnecessary, like you said with the grand scope of things being something so much larger (I feel). But keep looking for answers man. Have you tried acupuncture?


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: Mickalopagus]
    #14820029 -

Hey man, thanks for the reply.  I have tried acupuncture, unfortunately it's the same story as most things - provides short term relief (hour or so) but doesn't have much an effect in the long run.  It was kind of funny though, my acupuncturist would always comment about how she'd be trying to get a needle into one of my muscles and the needle would break.  Not because I'm super buff, but just because they're that tight near the affected area.  I had to laugh at that!

So here's something I've been thinking about lately.  I don't really have a lot of friends near me anymore.  I had a few close ones after high school, but one of them I've had trouble seeing for a while... we got into the drugs together, I wanted out but he's still into it.  When I quit the drugs I didn't want the influences around, but I do miss the guy.  Good idea to try and hit it off with him again?  Bad?  Aside from that, how do I go about making friends, and how do I try to keep the pain personal instead of allowing it to taint my feelings and expressions towards others?  It happens, and I don't like that it does, but I get so fed up with the pain sometimes that it is hard to keep the anger contained.  Any advice?  I like people.  I want more people to hang out with.  Any advice here really would be a HUGE help.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: happymealplease]
    #14820632 -

It depends with your friend. I dont know how many years its been since you last hung out with him, sometimes time can influence people to make decisions to change their lives for the better. I dont see any reason not to contact him and say whats up, so long as your parting wasnt under horrible circumstances. Obviously, if he is still a wreck and into drugs or whatever, it would be wise to stay away from that mess of issues. It seems youve got enough to deal with already.

When it comes to making new friends, there are always outlets for that. Have you gone to college or have any interest? In my area there are always public events on craigslist, or at the community center. Find a medium through which you can meet other people and see if you have interests, the possibilities are endless. I have a good group of friends ive known since highschool, but still try and branch out, and will meet people through work, through new bands I join, through school, or even just starting conversations with people who I feel I might have something in common with in public. When was your last romantic relationship? Do you have an interest in that?

I dont think talking about your physical pain is a problem, people are typically open to listen to the problems of others, especially when they can relate with them in a similar or in some other way


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: happymealplease]
    #14821107 -

I have a back problem and I can relate to everything you're saying.

No one is willing to do a surgery so I'm just on a shitload of oxy. Stagnating just waiting for the other shoe to drop I guess.

I don't know what to say except keep fighting the good fight and keep trucking on. Physical pain really fucks with your head something fierce and a lot of people don't understand that. A lot of people don't understand what chronic, debilitating pain is like either.

I'd say just do what you can do.

I really try to stay away from saying this to anybody in any circumstance, but it sounds like painkillers could benefit you a lot. Be careful.


Good luck.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: Adden]
    #14823975 -

Yup. Therapy, education, mental exercising, non-narcotic drugs, physical exercise etc. work. If these do not work and your last alternative is narcotic drugs then you cannot say you don't want to take them and it won't work what else can I do? If it's truly your last option then so deal with it and get over it, or take the drugs you need.


--------------------
:tigerbunny:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: Mickalopagus]
    #14841033 -

"When was your last romantic relationship? Do you have an interest in that?"

I am interested, I'm just not confident that I have anything to offer.  I don't have a job, I'm living at home because really I can't support myself financially, I do try volunteering but the pain is pretty bad so I can't fully commit to it.  That's the issue really.  I can't commit completely to others because I can't rely on my mind/body right now.

In regards to...

"I really try to stay away from saying this to anybody in any circumstance, but it sounds like painkillers could benefit you a lot. Be careful."

"If it's truly your last option then so deal with it and get over it, or take the drugs you need."

Drugs are an option, and they always will be, but I am not too fond of them anymore.  I used to really enjoying the feeling of being high and detached from pains of the world and the pains of my body, but I've come to see it as a crutch.  Rather than experiencing the pain and seeking out ways to overcome it, I just take something so my mind isn't receiving the signals anymore.  If this were completely without side effect, I'd be taking them no problem, but there are always side effects, so I'm really just trading one health issue for another.  However, the biggest concern is my philosophical stance that I don't feel that I'm truly experiencing life if I'm constantly high.  I feel that high should be a vacation, not a common occurrence.  When I was into drugs, I enjoyed being high so much that I was seeking it out as a fix for everything.  It was just too easy for me.  I didn't have to work for the feeling, I just had to take a hit and wait.  I became very addicted, even if some of the drugs weren't physiologically addicting.  This is part of my nature.  It would be no different with painkillers.  I can tell myself I would take them in moderation, but even thinking of that there is a flutter in my stomach.  I know I would take them as much as possible and become a shell of a person, and I can't have that around.

Being off medication may have side effects, but they are ones I can potentially overcome.  A side effect is finding it difficult to work, but would it be any different on medication?  I still think I would feel slow in some regards.  I have been stone sober from all drugs for four years now (not just recreational, I don't smoke or consume alcohol/coffee either), so even taking one Advil I notice shifts in my perceptions, reaction time, focus, ability to navigate the world... and it's all negative.  That's just Advil.  I'm really sensitive to mood-altering chemicals, always have been, and the way I react to the chemicals makes them far more dangerous to me and far more damaging to those close to me than dealing with pain and constant thoughts of suicide.

So drugs just aren't an option.

That said, I am still lined up for an EMG.  There is a belief that there is nerve damage in my neck, if there is this could be treated and would relieve a lot of the pain.  The only issue with this is that the test won't happen for at least another year (I am a peasant in a public health system - still better than no health system).  A year isn't long in the scope of life, but it will sure as hell feel like it if I am in pain the whole time and having a hard time finding things to fill the time.  I'm 25, I'd really prefer to be climbing the ladder in a career while living on my own or with roommates and going to parties and chasing a girl and enjoying life.

I know there are many who think it's just a matter applying yourself and working hard to snap out of it, but the frustration arises when this common remedy doesn't work.  I do know there are others who are in similar situations so there is some kind of understanding being provided, and even though no physical relief is provided it does take a bit of the sting out of the loneliness.

Edited by happymealplease (07/28/11 11:26 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: happymealplease]
    #14864188 -

My big fear is being abandoned.  I'm 25 and there are women who occasionally express interest in me.  Some are more direct about this than others.  I walk away from it, because I don't want them to know how bad this is.  If I let them in, they'd find out about my pain pretty quickly.  And I'm afraid of letting someone in, and having them leave because of my pain.  Because I'm broken this way.  I don't think I could deal with that.

Edited by happymealplease (08/02/11 10:54 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: happymealplease]
    #14864260 -

happymealplease said:
My big fear is being abandoned.  I'm 25 and there are women who occasionally express interest in me.  Some are more direct about this than others.  I walk away from it, because I don't want them to know how bad this is.  If I let them in, they'd find out about my pain pretty quickly.  And I'm afraid of letting someone in, and having them leave because of my pain.  Because I'm broken this way.  I don't think I could deal with that.


It's a cliche but I feel it's appropriate...

'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.


--------------------
:mushdance:



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: happymealplease]
    #14876897 -

I'm trying to get back in the work force, but I've got a big case of butterflies and self-consciousness about it.

I haven't worked since February, so there's that gap working against me.  I don't really want to reveal my pain issues to an interview because though it may be against the law to withhold a job from someone due to certain issues, it isn't exactly hard to come up with other reasons why a person isn't hireable.  So I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out how to discuss my absence from the work force.  I'm thinking it's better to go with a "I messed up and am just looking to rebuild myself" sort of approach.  Any tips on this one?

Also, references are pretty outdated.  I did underwriting for a bank a few years ago, and I did a really good job there (before the pain got stupid bad and I had to leave), so if I could get a reference from someone there it would probably help.  Problem is, the underwriting office has moved, and they don't exactly make this information public (obvious reasons).  I've tried emailing the two addresses my boss used to use, but they've both bounced back as undeliverable, so... yeah, kind of hooped myself here.

The job I had earlier this year was basically janitorial.  I went in doing part-time window cleaning and vacuuming out new-construction homes.  I ended up leaving, but I didn't just walk.  I called the guy and explained to him how I was feeling, and I wasn't sure if I could continue it (at that point in time).  I offered two weeks and stuff, but he was okay with me just finishing out the week.  So while he might be a good reference because I showed up every day and I didn't just walk off, it's just over a month that I worked for him, and if he reveals anything about why I left (pain), that could shoot me in the foot.

I also used to volunteer my time to drum at a church, this went on for three years but then I lost faith and it sort of came about that they didn't want non-Christian volunteers on their worship team (understandable).  This guy would be a valid reference too, but of course, since I've disconnected and isolated myself with the pain because I've wanted to die since 2008, I have no idea where the heck he's gone, and the makeup of the church has changed pretty dramatically so I wouldn't even know where to start on finding someone that knows how I could get in touch with him.

This ultimately leaves me with a handful of personal references.  I'm getting the feeling I just need to fire off a bunch of resumes and be brutally honest about my history with any interviewers, because trust is pretty important, but at the same time I don't want to raise any flags that say "don't hire this guy he's a wasteful little ****".  I want to work, I think it's important to my mental well-being.  It'll make me feel better to be contributing at least in some way as opposed to feeling sorry and suicidal.  But I'm not sure how to go about this.  I know I've fucked up.  Still.  Any advice?

Edited by happymealplease (08/05/11 04:35 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: happymealplease]
    #14877784 -

I feel your pain man in more ways than you could understand.  I have neck/shoulder/back/chest pain due to a conglomeration of injuries... Physical jobs are something I'm physically unable to do anymore and the stigma of a girl needing to take care of me kills me.

My greatest suggestion is massage and lots of it..  Make a deal with people at a massage school, make friends with someone, do whatever you have to do to get some massage.  My muscles spasms can fire off for hours if I leave everything untreated for extended periods of time.  They will align you and release tension in areas you didn't know were a cause of your problem... Don't expect it to be a magic fix all but a regular massage can really release more pain than any medication. 

When it comes to girls you need to try and stay upbeat at all times... at least for the first couple of contacts so it doesn't seem like you are just always harping on your negative pain.  People want to associate themselves with positive people and that goes into all facets of life even if you aren't inflicted with an ailment.  Then bring them into it after they know what type of person you really are and let them realize that this is something that is a PART of your life and not your WHOLE life.  You need to be able to cope and show them that you are trying and they will want to help you without you ever having to ask.  Since relationships shouldn't be based around a need for another person but a want to have them in their life. You need to show that you are capable on your own and all will work out fine.

When it comes to jobs thats a really tough one..  when all else fails grow op?  lol find something thats a good mix between sitting and moving would be my best suggestion. 

Hope some of this helps man, good luck.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: Spin240]
    #15004391 -

It might sound weird, but I feel like trying to stay physically fit is part of the problem.  Long walks, bike rides, going to the gym (weight training or body weight), taking part in activity seems to aggravate the issue.  I took a couple weeks off and I've noticed an increase in flexibility, but at the same time the pain has gotten worse because the strength I've built up that's helped reduce the pain is now receding as well.

This is pretty damn frustrating.  The expression "Damned if you do damned if you don't" seems pretty fucking perfect for this.

Edited by happymealplease (08/31/11 12:59 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: How to deal with physical pain [Re: happymealplease]
    #15004549 -

check out Rolfing


--------------------
The observer is the observed.
-J. Krishnamurti

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Injection Grain Bag

Community > Physical and Mental Well-Being
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* A New Study On Physical Pain Produced From Emotions World Spirit 1,199 0 10/26/03 06:12 PM
by World Spirit
* Physical pain. Fliquid 2,161 11 12/30/03 04:45 PM
by micro
* Unbearable pain. This is hella shitty. Tasty_Smurf_House 2,190 14 02/20/06 04:17 AM
by Burning_Skies
* Cutting...how to deal with it? spasticSofa 2,121 15 02/05/04 09:02 PM
by Yarry
* Tips for dealing with panic attacks & -ve thoughts strategy enotake2 5,446 19 03/16/03 02:39 PM
by jarby
* worn down by chronic pain...
( 1 2 all )		 lucid 2,394 20 06/14/22 05:43 PM
by Rache2020
* physical,emotional, and subconscious well being... 40oz 3,393 11 04/05/03 12:00 PM
by 40oz
* Why do we have so much pain in life? Anonymous 2,754 19 05/20/03 04:41 PM
by Strumpling

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: CherryBom, Asante, Rose, mndfreeze, yogabunny, feevers, CookieCrumbs, Northerner
4,020 topic views. 0 members, 21 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.037 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 19 queries.