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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #14757542 -

i think dawkins is a good debater when it comes to handling people who reject evolution. i just don't agree with his points on religion. i can see how he comes off as an asshole though. but at the same time, when he challenges his opponents in the way he does, i've yet to see a single valid counter argument. in the case of the video in the op, wright really didn't have anything of substance to back up her points.

admittedly though my exposure to dawkins is pretty limited. what counter points have you seen made towards dawkins' assertions that you felt were valid rabidbaboon?


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

Edited by millzy (07/12/11 03:02 PM)

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: millzy]
    #14757555 -

Most of the counterpoints that are valid are opponents criticizing his style of debate.
His facts are straight, but his style of discourse isn't very tactful.

I'm just saying they need to find a better person to assume Dawkins place.
One who can empathize with the opponents to put them a little more at ease.


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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...
At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #14757587 -

yeah, but that doesn't really have any baring on how solid his rhetoric is. a miserable prick he may be, but that doesn't make him wrong and it certainly doesn't give his opponents' position any validity. and like i said before, imho, the people who he publicly challenges deserve his ridicule in the sense that they are actively trying to change public policy in a most harmful way. organizations and individuals who are in essence trying to affect changes that will have long lasting, far reaching repercussions shouldn't be handled with kid gloves. either take the heat and back up your shit or be made to look like the asshat that you are.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Legend]
    #14757629 -

Apparently I was wrong about Dawkins only going after easy targets.  He also goes after women who ask to be treated with respect.  I didn't realize what misogynist pig he is.  It seems this girl didn't either.


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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: millzy]
    #14757630 -

Agreed.

But imagine all the members of the opposing group who could be swayed if Dawkins offered an accepting and sensible view of his side?
I don't care about him convincing his direct opponent, I'm just thinking of what all the opponent's followers impressions must be. Nobody wants to follow a dick.
We should be more concerned about the masses pushing for legislation, rather than the speaker of the masses.

You're right. The people he debates with often deserve the ridicule.
But ridiculing someone does more harm to your own character than to the target's, in my opinion. Especially when speaking from a position of authority.
He needs to act a little more professional.


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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...
At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: millzy]
    #14757637 -

Well, something I've noticed about Dawkins is that he argues only on his own terms and he is extremely closed to viewpoints different from his own. It's a virtue in debate to be open-minded and to address the concerns of the opponent. It's not just bad manners, it's bad form to trash your opponent's motivation, worldview, way of life. That's not how civilized debate works. He seems to see it more like pro wrestling. :shrug:

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14757648 -

Tchan909 said:
It's not just bad manners, it's bad form to trash your opponent's motivation, worldview, way of life. That's not how civilized debate works.


Exactly the point I was trying to make, but you said it better.


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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...
At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14757674 -

i do see both of your points, and i also agree about the masses who follow the opposition are the ones to worry about. as i said before, i think the people who need to do the housecleaning are academic/moderate christians. dawkins being an atheist puts him on entirely different footing from the start, so in a sense it's not even an argument seeing that both parties must start from the same archimedian point.

for example, in a courtroom, both the prosecution and the defense are both starting from a mutual understanding of codified law. hence each side can construct their arguments based on that understanding and present them to the judge and jurors (if present) for a verdict. these types of debates don't have that. it's just two people essentially shouting past each other.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Silversoul]
    #14757754 -

Silversoul said:
Apparently I was wrong about Dawkins only going after easy targets.  He also goes after women who ask to be treated with respect.  I didn't realize what misogynist pig he is.  It seems this girl didn't either.



do you support religion radically radically hindering science?

Do you support religion making tax free profit off the masses by telling them what they want to hear?

Do you support ancient scribblings being taught to children as fact?

do you support children being denied scientific theory because of religion?


If you answered no to any of these questions, religion should be abolished as the ancient dark art it is.:lol:


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Any information posted on this website from this account is hypothetical and only to be used for legal purposes. :super:

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Pscientist]
    #14757809 -

Pscientist said:
do you support religion radically radically hindering science?

Do you support religion making tax free profit off the masses by telling them what they want to hear?

Do you support ancient scribblings being taught to children as fact?

do you support children being denied scientific theory because of religion?


If you answered no to any of these questions, religion should be abolished as the ancient dark art it is.:lol:


One has to stand in awe of the level of irrational thought in this post, if only for how entirely unrelated it all is to the post it's responding to.


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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Silversoul]
    #14757849 -

Silversoul said:
Pscientist said:
do you support religion radically radically hindering science?

Do you support religion making tax free profit off the masses by telling them what they want to hear?

Do you support ancient scribblings being taught to children as fact?

do you support children being denied scientific theory because of religion?


If you answered no to any of these questions, religion should be abolished as the ancient dark art it is.:lol:


One has to stand in awe of the level of irrational thought in this post, if only for how entirely unrelated it all is to the post it's responding to.



answer the questions instead of backpedaling, the link you provided actually sounded more like this woman is harassing Dawkins, you said you don't agree with Dawkins ideas on religion..

"And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.

Richard"


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Any information posted on this website from this account is hypothetical and only to be used for legal purposes. :super:

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Pscientist]
    #14757896 -

Pscientist said:
answer the questions instead of backpedaling,


You have no idea what backpedaling means.

Quote:
the link you provided actually sounded more like this woman is harassing Dawkins


HA!  That's a good one.  She makes a comment about not wanting guys to harass her and gets a bitchy response from Dawkins, and now SHE's the one harassing him?  You're fucking deluded, man.

Quote:
you said you don't agree with Dawkins ideas on religion..


I said I think he picks easy targets and that if he really thought he had a good case against religion, he'd debate more qualified academic theologians and not just a bunch of creationist loons.


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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Pscientist]
    #14757922 -

Pscientist said:
do you support religion radically  hindering science?

Do you support religion making tax free profit off the masses by telling them what they want to hear?

Do you support ancient scribblings being taught to children as fact?

do you support children being denied scientific theory because of religion?


If you answered no to any of these questions, religion should be abolished as the ancient dark art it is.:lol:



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Any information posted on this website from this account is hypothetical and only to be used for legal purposes. :super:

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Pscientist] * 1
    #14757929 -

Quoting yourself does not a rebuttal make.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Pscientist]
    #14757938 -

Pscientist said:
Pscientist said:
do you support religion radically  hindering science?

Do you support religion making tax free profit off the masses by telling them what they want to hear?

Do you support ancient scribblings being taught to children as fact?

do you support children being denied scientific theory because of religion?


If you answered no to any of these questions, religion should be abolished as the ancient dark art it is.:lol:



This is a really shitty argument anyway. The premise you've set is ludicrous. Nobody here supports any of these things and neither do most religious people. You're being unreasonable.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14757950 -

Do you support genocide in the name of eugenics?

Do you support materialistic caste systems which deny quality of life to the majority of the population?

Do you support moral nihilism?

Do you support political indoctrination which claims there is no authority higher than the state?

If you answered no to any of these questions, secularism should be abolished in a bloody global crusade.

:whatever:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14757958 -

1. banning stem cell research
2. collection plate at church/church fundraisers
3. Religion Class (any religious highschool)
4. Some Religious schools are denied exposure to evolution


all of these things are real and supported by evangelical christians, roman catholics and many other religions


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Any information posted on this website from this account is hypothetical and only to be used for legal purposes. :super:

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Pscientist]
    #14757964 -

And other evangelical Christians and Roman Catholics disagree with these policies. When you attack all religion for misguided ideas like these, you're depriving yourself of potential allies and weakening your cause.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14757968 -

Tchan909 said:
Do you support genocide in the name of eugenics?

Do you support materialistic caste systems which deny quality of life to the majority of the population?

Do you support moral nihilism?

Do you support political indoctrination which claims there is no authority higher than the state?

If you answered no to any of these questions, secularism should be abolished in a bloody global crusade.

:whatever:


not even close :lol:


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Any information posted on this website from this account is hypothetical and only to be used for legal purposes. :super:

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Re: Richard Dawkins VS. Wendy Wright [Re: Pscientist]
    #14757972 -

Hurts to look in the mirror, huh?


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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