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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: DR. PRIME]
    #12295010 -

ScYiNs47 said:
He's more of an author than a biologist to me. His subject is biology. He's more of an adamant atheist preacher than anything. His views are spiteful, in my eyes.



:thumbup:


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"It's that in me there is no sorcery, there is no anger, there are no lies. Because I don't have garbage, I don't have dust. The sickness comes out if the sick vomit. They vomit the sickness. They vomit because the mushrooms want them to. If the sick don't vomit, I vomit. I vomit for them and in that way the malady is expelled. The mushrooms have power because they are the flesh of God. And those that believe are healed. Those that do not believe are not healed."(Maria Sabina)

"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source . . . They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres." (Albert Einstein)

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: Chemical Sandman]
    #12295185 -

Hendostan said:
asking the right questions and designing unique ways to test them is an art


That is a subcategory of what science requires, not art. Science is its own category. Asking questions based ON OBSERVATION and designing new ways to test those questions may be the "art" OF science but the "art" OF other categories differ from that specific definition. So are they all "art" or are they their own definitive subject?


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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: DieCommie] * 1
    #12295192 -

I'm very proud of this thread. especially nice input from DieCommie :thumbup:


--------------------
ONE-EYED WANT
-------------------------
knock a hoe out this dimension, continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie
rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, shLong, ModestMouse, vinsue, big worm (sketch), tim

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: DR. PRIME]
    #12295233 -

ScYiNs47 said:
Hendostan said:
asking the right questions and designing unique ways to test them is an art


That is a subcategory of what science requires, not art. Science is its own category. Asking questions based ON OBSERVATION and designing new ways to test those questions may be the "art" OF science but the "art" OF other categories differ from that specific definition. So are they all "art" or are they their own definitive subject?


i really don't understand what you're saying at all... art isn't necessarily limited to expression, it entails an elegance or beauty... good science definitely has both, and doesn't detract from the technical process or objective observations.

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: Hendostan]
    #12295446 -

Ok, life is art. Now back to my point.

I know what you mean but I still don't like Richard Dawkins. He was alright until he started telling people how they should raise their kids.



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Edited by DR. PRIME (03/29/10 09:07 PM)

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: DR. PRIME]
    #12295482 -

i didn't realize that's what we were talking about.

i'm not a fan of his either... i consider myself something of an atheist/agnostic, but i've never been very impressed with dawkins... i've given it a chance, read his research and books, watched his documentaries.. just never thought there was anything revolutionary or even particularly insightful about any of it.

i love the video clip of feyman rockin the drum circle, he looks like he's diggin it :cool:

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: Hendostan]
    #12295562 -

great. :smile:

I wasn't trying to make this into a debate about science and art or science vs religion. Sorry if I came across that way. Typing makes it near impossible to pick up on my tone.

I just don't think Richard Dawkins belongs in the same category as the other legends in those videos. He loads his writing with hypothetical scenarios and unsubstantial evidence to 'prove' points and labels it as science. When in reality, he's only packaging it full of appeal to cater to the anti-God mindset. Yeah, he does put solid biological evidence in there too but nothing no one has ever heard of elsewhere in the realm of biology. He's simply a synthesizer of evolutionary biology. He uses it to help his 'main' cause. Atheism.


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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: DR. PRIME]
    #12295695 -

Not to be rude, but you seem like you have no idea about what you are speaking of. You singled out Einstein in a group of physicists as the only mathematician. I imlore you to actually read a Hawking book and then tell me he's not a mathematician.

And as if mathematicians are the only people who can speak out on social issues, wtf?

I also implore you to read anything by Dawkins other than the God Delusion. I have yet to see any "unsubstantiated" claims made by him in order to bolster his positions. The reason he is so cherished is for his factual, straight forward, easy to understand manner in which he explains the relatively complex theory of natural selection. There is a reason he held the seat of Public Undestanding of Science at Oxford University.

He has also made important contributions to the understanding of many adjunct "theories" relating to natural selection. Those are his scientific contributions. If you want to learn about those, read his early works.

I understand you not liking him prodding your beliefs, but he never agrues that you don't have the right to hold them, so wtf is the problem?


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: dill705]
    #12295718 -

Wow, this thread turned into a Dawkins debate really quickly.

I liked the song.
At bit weird at first, the voice samples weren't doing it for me, but it grew on me.

Sagan was such a great mind.


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The Psychedelic Salon -- Erowid -- MAPS -- The Genesis Generation

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: bryguy27007]
    #12295743 -

yeah, i'm still unsure about that last one. 'the unbroken thread' gives me goosebumps every time though, absolutely incredible.

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: Hendostan]
    #12295814 -

guys quit being so butt-hurt :snub:

i thought the video was cool :thumb:


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Check out my gallery :sun:

Do YOU have The Band's sheet music books? I am paying cash!

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: Hendostan]
    #12295822 -

Hendostan said:
i love the video clip of feyman rockin the drum circle, he looks like he's diggin it :cool:




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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: dill705]
    #12295895 -

That's cool man. You're not being rude.

Personally, I learned more from Darwin about natural selection than Dawkins and I've read a ton of Dawkins. I've read enough of Dawkin's work on natural selection to know it's nothing new, though I do admit, I've read a lot more of his critical analysis's of other published works on creationist biology claims. He was right some of time and wrong some of the time. I give him a little credit for going against other peoples' work, that's not an easy task. But the day I heard him suggesting how people should live their lives I realized how much psychobabble he tags on most of the things he says.


Once I click the submit button my words are out there, my thought was incomplete subtext. I only singled out Einstein because we were talking about creativity in science and I was admiring his mathematical talent. Einstein is just my favorite. Hawking is brilliant but most of his explanations are more theoretical than mathematical. And Sagan was a warm-hearted person who I respect mostly for his statistical achievements in cosmology and evolutionary biology. Einstein was the epitome of crazy chemist mathematician super genius. Those other dudes are mostly just well educated nerds or 1/2 computer lol.


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Edited by DR. PRIME (03/29/10 10:24 PM)

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: DR. PRIME]
    #12295943 -

Einsteins revalations were predicated on simple geometry concepts. The math is incredibly easy to understand.  He's my favorite btw :heart:

To my knowledge, Hawking always used math to back up his, admitedly sometimes outrageous ideas. See his use of imaginary numbers to chart time as a loop that goes through "imaginary" time, hence getting rid of the question what came before the big bang. Apparently his idea is that it was imaginary :shrug:


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: dill705]
    #12295960 -

dill705 said:
Einsteins revalations were predicated on simple geometry concepts. The math is incredibly easy to understand.  He's my favorite btw :heart:

To my knowledge, Hawking always used math to back up his, admitedly sometimes outrageous ideas. See his use of imaginary numbers to chart time as a loop that goes through "imaginary" time, hence getting rid of the question what came before the big bang. Apparently his idea is that it was imaginary :shrug:


I think you misunderstood. Hawking simply hypothesizes that Einstein's Theory of Relativity breaks down at the center of a black hole.


--------------------
ONE-EYED WANT
-------------------------
knock a hoe out this dimension, continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie
rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, shLong, ModestMouse, vinsue, big worm (sketch), tim

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: dill705]
    #12295975 -

He has mad props in the scientific community but a lot of his 'tougher to tackle' theories remain controversial. He has like 5 different ones for the big bang and black holes :lol:


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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: dill705]
    #12295989 -

dill705 said:
Einsteins revalations were predicated on simple geometry concepts. The math is incredibly easy to understand.  He's my favorite btw :heart:



Differential geometry and tensor fields are easy to understand?  Well then FML. :suicide:

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: DR. PRIME]
    #12296101 -

ScYiNs47 said:
Einstein was the epitome of crazy chemist mathematician super genius.


don't forget violinist

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Re: SYMPHONY OF SCIENCE - Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow [Re: DieCommie]
    #12296165 -

It was for me when I read Einstein's book called "Relativity". Special relativity is simple cartesian cordinates sytems + the law of the propagation of light. General relativity is undertsanding that rotational or non-linear motion distorts the cartesian grid. This is possible because there is an infinite amount of space between any two points, and they are not neccessarily the same size. I forget what mathematical theorum he employs here, but it was one that existed before he came along. This distortion is the bending of spacetime we see evidenced by gravity and non-linear motion.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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