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Offlinenew2shroomzz
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: foxtym]
    #14506597 - 05/24/11 08:20 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Hey man I don't mind giving you some info. These were actually found in northern kentucky in a creek. I wasn't absolutely positive if the creek drained into the ohio river or not but i took a 5 minute trip from my house and was looking in some woods by this creek. I gotta say im probably about 10-15 miles from cincinnati. I was looking in woody debris all over that was stacked up at the curves in the creek and couldnt find any but I walked about 10-20 more ft down the creek and looked under some brush in woody debris and huzzah! what i believed to be ovoids was identified as ovoids! im no expert mushroom hunter and this was my first time ever find active psilo's. I just matched up the habitats, did my homework, and got lucky. Im going to dry these guys out and pop em and hope our trusted identifiers were right :smile: im rdy for my first natural trip. Anyone know how to cultivate these guys from the substrate i still have?


--------------------
"We can't stop here, this is bat country!" — Hunter S. Thompson


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Offlinefoxtym
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: new2shroomzz]
    #14506657 - 05/24/11 08:31 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

new2shroomzz said:
Hey man I don't mind giving you some info. These were actually found in northern kentucky in a creek. I wasn't absolutely positive if the creek drained into the ohio river or not but i took a 5 minute trip from my house and was looking in some woods by this creek. I gotta say im probably about 10-15 miles from cincinnati. I was looking in woody debris all over that was stacked up at the curves in the creek and couldnt find any but I walked about 10-20 more ft down the creek and looked under some brush in woody debris and huzzah! what i believed to be ovoids was identified as ovoids! im no expert mushroom hunter and this was my first time ever find active psilo's. I just matched up the habitats, did my homework, and got lucky. Im going to dry these guys out and pop em and hope our trusted identifiers were right :smile: im rdy for my first natural trip. Anyone know how to cultivate these guys from the substrate i still have?




Thanks. I’m getting more and more convinced that the habitat has nothing to do with being near (big) rivers. It doesn’t sound like any river floodwater had ever been to your hunting spot.


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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: foxtym]
    #14506701 - 05/24/11 08:37 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

foxtym said:
Thanks. I’m getting more and more convinced that the habitat has nothing to do with being near (big) rivers. It doesn’t sound like any river floodwater had ever been to your hunting spot.



I'd have to disagree w/ you there. Just look at the mushroomobserver.org occurance map of Ovoids. All finds are in the area of large rivers basically.


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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Offlinefoxtym
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #14506864 - 05/24/11 09:07 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

E-in Liondragon said:
Quote:

foxtym said:
Thanks. I’m getting more and more convinced that the habitat has nothing to do with being near (big) rivers. It doesn’t sound like any river floodwater had ever been to your hunting spot.



I'd have to disagree w/ you there. Just look at the mushroomobserver.org occurance map of Ovoids. All finds are in the area of large rivers basically.




Let me refine my position: Ovoid habitats don’t require floodwaters from big rivers. I do not dispute that habitats may have to be “near” (big) rivers, since “near” is quite relative. I mean most of the mushroomobserver map reports are many miles from the Ohio River and far from any escaping floodwaters, and many are far from ANY rivers and VERY far from the Ohio. And just look at new2shroomzz habitat descriptions; it doesn’t sound like it ever receives any river floodwaters – and is 10-15 miles from the Ohio River.


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Offlinenew2shroomzz
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: foxtym]
    #14506924 - 05/24/11 09:17 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

We got a large amount of rain the last 2 days so it wouldnt suprise me if this little creek flooded.


--------------------
"We can't stop here, this is bat country!" — Hunter S. Thompson


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Offlinefoxtym
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: new2shroomzz]
    #14507001 - 05/24/11 09:30 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

new2shroomzz said:
We got a large amount of rain the last 2 days so it wouldnt suprise me if this little creek flooded.




Yes, of course the creek flooded – since you found piles of washed up branches. But I’m claiming something different: that the nearest “river” never flooded up past (into) the creek. But I am only guessing based on what you said. What do you think?


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Offlinenew2shroomzz
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: foxtym]
    #14507057 - 05/24/11 09:39 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

I don't know man i was kind of shocked to find them 15 miles away from the ohio river in some creek


--------------------
"We can't stop here, this is bat country!" — Hunter S. Thompson


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Offlinefoxtym
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: new2shroomzz]
    #14507303 - 05/24/11 10:31 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

new2shroomzz said:
I don't know man i was kind of shocked to find them 15 miles away from the ohio river in some creek




So I think we can safely say that the Ohio River NEVER floods into your creek. The only question is whether ANY river ever floods into it. If a river had recently flooded into it, the whole area should have been pretty obvious: large areas of flattened plants and/or dead/no plants, a film of dirt on everything, bunches of dead plant fodder stuck up in places above the ground, etc. But if your creek was up in any degree of hilly terrain, the chance of any river flooding back into it is virtually nil.


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Offlinenew2shroomzz
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: foxtym]
    #14507359 - 05/24/11 10:40 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Want habitat pics bro? I don't even know what to say to that dude these are ovoids trust me im trippin nutz right now


--------------------
"We can't stop here, this is bat country!" — Hunter S. Thompson


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Offlinefoxtym
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: new2shroomzz]
    #14507393 - 05/24/11 10:46 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

new2shroomzz said:
Want habitat pics bro? I don't even know what to say to that dude these are ovoids trust me im trippin nutz right now




I’m not questioning the identity of the mushrooms. I’m only disputing the general consensus about their habitat. Your descriptions help prove that Ovoids don’t require a river floodplain.


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Offlinenew2shroomzz
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: foxtym]
    #14507413 - 05/24/11 10:51 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Oh yeah. okay. but uh yeah i was thinking the same thing just like you when i was out hunting. i figured maybe i didnt have to drive the 15 miles and hopefully they are more widespread to local creeks in forests. but i think these creeks all lead to the ohio. idk dude im trippinnnnnnnnnnnnnn.


--------------------
"We can't stop here, this is bat country!" — Hunter S. Thompson


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Offlinefoxtym
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: new2shroomzz]
    #14507492 - 05/24/11 11:10 PM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

new2shroomzz said:
Oh yeah. okay. but uh yeah i was thinking the same thing just like you when i was out hunting. i figured maybe i didnt have to drive the 15 miles and hopefully they are more widespread to local creeks in forests. but i think these creeks all lead to the ohio. idk dude im trippinnnnnnnnnnnnnn.




Sorry to bother you at this time, but I must say that all water from all creeks (and streams and ditches) in a large multi-state region of the US eventually drains into the Ohio River. So that really means nothing. The question is whether Ovoids need a habitat that requires floodwaters from the Ohio River (or even any major rivers). I think the answer is “no”.


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Offlineehtdaedlufetarg
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: foxtym]
    #14507852 - 05/25/11 12:24 AM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

foxtym said:
Quote:

new2shroomzz said:
Oh yeah. okay. but uh yeah i was thinking the same thing just like you when i was out hunting. i figured maybe i didnt have to drive the 15 miles and hopefully they are more widespread to local creeks in forests. but i think these creeks all lead to the ohio. idk dude im trippinnnnnnnnnnnnnn.




Sorry to bother you at this time, but I must say that all water from all creeks (and streams and ditches) in a large multi-state region of the US eventually drains into the Ohio River. So that really means nothing. The question is whether Ovoids need a habitat that requires floodwaters from the Ohio River (or even any major rivers). I think the answer is “no”.




I agree with you, No. They have been found here in OR, WA and CA and i know of a patch that i can say definitively NEVER EVER receives flood waters of rivers or any flooding at all. However if your speaking of only the ohio river valley ovoids then what i said may be irrelevant, but i doubt it is.


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: new2shroomzz]
    #14508143 - 05/25/11 01:59 AM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

new2shroomzz said:
No you just don't understand ive searched and searched 60+ hours in last 2 weeks for nothing.



Do you now understand why experienced hunters keep preaching to n00bs relentlessly to go out and search from sunrise to sunset, day after day and keep searching and never give up, because it is the ONLY sure way to eventual success?


--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".


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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: ehtdaedlufetarg]
    #14508529 - 05/25/11 05:51 AM (12 years, 7 days ago)

Fox, since you have never found them, I would suggest just listening to those who have. It is not always obvious if a river floods into an area. The area needs to flood sometimes anyway, not alot, or every year (sometimes is the key, too much flooding washes them away). and as for New2Shrooms finds, 15 miles is still pretty close to the Ohio. The shrooms he found probably "migrated" up the creek from a patch closer to the a river.

And really, all the posts on mushroom observer ARE near a river. Sometimes you have to zoom in to see them. I don't think anyone said they have to be NEXT to a river or anything. In fact we know that they don't, because people gorw them in woodchip beds. However, their natural habitat is a disturbed flood area, and they are most prolific near rivers. I'm not sure why you are fighting this so much, especially since you haven't ever found them. Only time will tell, I hope you get out there and prove me wrong, but untill then, throwing a theory out there that disputes known knowledge of Ovoids is questionable. Especially seeing as how you were hounding for habitat info yesterday, and within hours of asking the questions about habitat, you come up with a theory?

Are you just kinda hoping they don't need rivers so they will be near you?

Quote:

ehtdaedlufetarg said:


I agree with you, No. They have been found here in OR, WA and CA and i know of a patch that i can say definitively NEVER EVER receives flood waters of rivers or any flooding at all. However if your speaking of only the ohio river valley ovoids then what i said may be irrelevant, but i doubt it is.




I think the West Coast "Ovoids" definitely are not the same as Ohio valley Ovoids when it comes to habitat.


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: ehtdaedlufetarg]
    #14509435 - 05/25/11 11:39 AM (12 years, 6 days ago)




I agree with you, No. They have been found here in OR, WA and CA and i know of a patch that i can say definitively NEVER EVER receives flood waters of rivers or any flooding at all. However if your speaking of only the ohio river valley ovoids then what i said may be irrelevant, but i doubt it is.




where in Oregon have ovoids been found? I have seen a map of ovoids in Washington but I have never heard of this lovely mushroom growing in our state. :grin:


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Offlinefoxtym
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #14509880 - 05/25/11 01:21 PM (12 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

E-in Liondragon said:
Fox, since you have never found them, I would suggest just listening to those who have. It is not always obvious if a river floods into an area. The area needs to flood sometimes anyway, not alot, or every year (sometimes is the key, too much flooding washes them away). and as for New2Shrooms finds, 15 miles is still pretty close to the Ohio. The shrooms he found probably "migrated" up the creek from a patch closer to the a river.

And really, all the posts on mushroom observer ARE near a river. Sometimes you have to zoom in to see them. I don't think anyone said they have to be NEXT to a river or anything. In fact we know that they don't, because people gorw them in woodchip beds. However, their natural habitat is a disturbed flood area, and they are most prolific near rivers. I'm not sure why you are fighting this so much, especially since you haven't ever found them. Only time will tell, I hope you get out there and prove me wrong, but untill then, throwing a theory out there that disputes known knowledge of Ovoids is questionable. Especially seeing as how you were hounding for habitat info yesterday, and within hours of asking the questions about habitat, you come up with a theory?

Are you just kinda hoping they don't need rivers so they will be near you?

Quote:

ehtdaedlufetarg said:


I agree with you, No. They have been found here in OR, WA and CA and i know of a patch that i can say definitively NEVER EVER receives flood waters of rivers or any flooding at all. However if your speaking of only the ohio river valley ovoids then what i said may be irrelevant, but i doubt it is.




I think the West Coast "Ovoids" definitely are not the same as Ohio valley Ovoids when it comes to habitat.




It’s really quite simple. I’m researching habitat info prior to striking out and wandering about. Besides, I’m not real close to the Ohio River. I’d rather educate myself first, and I find that one of the best forms of education is to form a position and submit it for scrutiny. Information and discussion is what these forums are for, right? My “theory” is based on information gathered, nothing more. And although you basically appear to disagree, it sounds like you agree when you say, “the shrooms he found probably ‘migrated’ up the creek from a patch closer to the a river”. I mean that frankly sounds more like a facet of my theory than yours. IOW, yes mushroom species “migrate” all the time via routes other than river water, which if anything would negate the river-floodwater requirement.

As far as the mushroom observer maps, I’m not sure why you are claiming that all Ovoid finds are near a river. Zooming in reveals that these do not appear to be “near” (depending on how you define it) a river, let alone the Ohio: Natural Bridge Resort State Park / Slade, KY; S of Martin KY; W of BSA Pond, Logan WV; W of Hwy 216, Wayne Ntnl Forest, WV; NE of Stroud’s Run State Park, WV; E of Belmont OH (only 8 miles from the Ohio, but far beyond the reach of its floodwaters); E of Washington PA. Many more are near rivers, but quite far from the Ohio.

Maybe at this point it would be good for you to refine your position.


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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: foxtym]
    #14511164 - 05/25/11 06:01 PM (12 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

foxtym said:

As far as the mushroom observer maps, I’m not sure why you are claiming that all Ovoid finds are near a river. Zooming in reveals that these do not appear to be “near” (depending on how you define it) a river, let alone the Ohio: Natural Bridge Resort State Park / Slade, KY; S of Martin KY; W of BSA Pond, Logan WV; W of Hwy 216, Wayne Ntnl Forest, WV; NE of Stroud’s Run State Park, WV; E of Belmont OH (only 8 miles from the Ohio, but far beyond the reach of its floodwaters); E of Washington PA. Many more are near rivers, but quite far from the Ohio.

Maybe at this point it would be good for you to refine your position.



Firstly, many of those locations are dilberately covering a huge area to be discreet. They don't usually point out the actual area where they were found, usually they show a nearby area. Secondly, I don't think anyone ever said that they had to be near the Ohio specifically, but they do mainly grow in the Ohio River Valley system and adjacent systems. Thirdly, you really must not have looked very hard at that map because...

Natural Bridge Resort- Adjacent to the Red River
Wayne National Forest - Adjacent to Hocking River
Belmont country Ohio- Directly on the Ohio River (you brought this up to support them not growing near the Ohio?)
East Washington PA- Also very close to the Ohio river one the West side, which is where I bet this find comes from)

Need I go on? Really you don't have a leg to stand on, please don't take my word for it, ask other Ovoid hunters. Shit go look up all the creeks miles and miles from rivers you want and see how fast you find them. Psilocybes require a disturbed environment, man can do this by creating a woodchip bed, it loosens the medium the mycelia will grow in and exposes it to air and water. This is also done by flooding, which is why flooding is so important in finding wild Ovoids. Really, check all this info out. The spores could blow way upstream and colonize, sure, but they are much much less likely, as it is not their natural and preferred habitat of a disturbed area.

It seems like you are being hardheaded and arguing for the sake of arguing, just go look, and you will find out. Really you should be thanking people who are trying to help you, I don't get it. You really won't get much help acting the way you are to people who have been there.


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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Offlinefoxtym
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #14514319 - 05/26/11 09:44 AM (12 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

E-in Liondragon said:
Firstly, many of those locations are dilberately covering a huge area to be discreet. They don't usually point out the actual area where they were found, usually they show a nearby area. Secondly, I don't think anyone ever said that they had to be near the Ohio specifically, but they do mainly grow in the Ohio River Valley system and adjacent systems. Thirdly, you really must not have looked very hard at that map because...

Natural Bridge Resort- Adjacent to the Red River
Wayne National Forest - Adjacent to Hocking River
Belmont country Ohio- Directly on the Ohio River (you brought this up to support them not growing near the Ohio?)
East Washington PA- Also very close to the Ohio river one the West side, which is where I bet this find comes from)

Need I go on? Really you don't have a leg to stand on, please don't take my word for it, ask other Ovoid hunters. Shit go look up all the creeks miles and miles from rivers you want and see how fast you find them. Psilocybes require a disturbed environment, man can do this by creating a woodchip bed, it loosens the medium the mycelia will grow in and exposes it to air and water. This is also done by flooding, which is why flooding is so important in finding wild Ovoids. Really, check all this info out. The spores could blow way upstream and colonize, sure, but they are much much less likely, as it is not their natural and preferred habitat of a disturbed area.

It seems like you are being hardheaded and arguing for the sake of arguing, just go look, and you will find out. Really you should be thanking people who are trying to help you, I don't get it. You really won't get much help acting the way you are to people who have been there.




Thank you for refining your position. But since your position is now that “ovoids mainly grow in the Ohio River Valley system and adjacent systems”, why are you still appearing to oppose mine? That opinion is no different than mine. The land area included in the “Ohio River Valley” is about the size of five average states. http://www.fws.gov/orve/images/refmap.jpg
It seems you have actually adopted my argument, while still appearing to contest it. I mean it makes your contentions over the mushroom observer map doubly moot; 1) it’s useless to you (to your original position) if it doesn’t actually point to actual spots, 2) but it doesn’t matter since any interpretation of the spots places them within the giant Ohio River Valley. And it makes your remarks about me being “hardheaded” and without “a leg to stand on” and etc just puffery.

Readers: Let it be known that at least two members now agree that “Ovoids DO NOT only grow in debris deposited by floodwaters of the Ohio River”, but instead “grow in debris in and around any creekside or streambed or river floodplain within the Ohio River Valley and adjacent drainage systems”.

Now see how well my technique for self-education works? 1. Gather info & compare it to the popular consensus. 2. If the two differ, post the unpopular opinion and let the debate begin. Quite often, as in this case, the popular opinion turns out to be incorrect.


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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: ID Please! Ovoids? :) [Re: foxtym]
    #14514506 - 05/26/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 5 days ago)

I'm not really sure what you think my "original position" was. I never said they only grow in flood debris deposited by the Ohio river, ever. You seem to be assuming things. Adopted your argument? Man, you really are mind boggling.

What you were saying is that they don't need to be anywhere near rivers. You may find a selection far from a river, but it was probably put there by man, either purposefully or accidentally, in a woodchip bed. It seems the park system in NJ has distributed inoculated chips fairly far and wide. When they are found naturally it is USUALLY pretty close to a river in an area that floods. Thats all I've been saying this whole time. And it seems everyone agrees. You seem to be putting words in my mouth.

I said the Mushroomobserver map denotes general areas, which is does. All are in the vicinity of the Ohio and adjacent rivers. My argument is that when they are found in their natural habitat it is usually an area that floods. The areas that get the most flooding are near rivers.
Quote:

foxtym said:


Readers: Let it be known that at least two members now agree that “Ovoids DO NOT only grow in debris deposited by floodwaters of the Ohio River”, but instead “grow in debris in and around any creekside or streambed or river floodplain within the Ohio River Valley and adjacent drainage systems”.






This has been my argument the whole time. I have no idea about the confusion here. You really must only read/understand what you want to, because I clearly stated this in my previous posts. This proves that you ARE hardheaded and like to pick fights. So does this statement.
Quote:

foxtym said:
Now see how well my technique for self-education works? 1. Gather info & compare it to the popular consensus. 2. If the two differ, post the unpopular opinion and let the debate begin. Quite often, as in this case, the popular opinion turns out to be incorrect.



The popular opinion quite often turns out to be incorrect? The opinion you stated IS the popular opinion. You think you, who obviously know nothing about this species, will come in here and tell experienced hunters, who have located and studied them and their habitat for years, that they are wrong, and somehow you are right? Are you a sociopath? And it is funny that you tried to back up your "unpopular" postion by asking people. Just for the sake of arguing :oldman:.

And I know alot about self education. See when I first came on here and knew nothing about Ovoids I LISTENED to experience, and did lots of research. With this knowledge I found them. I didn't come in insulting people and arguing bullheadedly about established knowledge.

Just know I have been studying these guys for a very long time, and I have found around 10 patches, I think I know a thing or two. How many Ovoids have you found? Wait. None. And I don't think you will if you get too stubborn about trying to prove that they don't need some flooding.

With your attitude I'm sure you'll locate them in no time.


Edited by Toe_Jam (05/26/11 10:46 AM)


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by ZippoZ
* help with ID please?
( 1 2 all )
atsncpm 2,123 20 05/25/04 09:38 AM
by mjshroomer
* Pan Sub Find! - * Added trip report
( 1 2 all )
falseaddiction 8,600 32 09/15/03 01:37 PM
by nofind_um
* Cyans found, confirmation ID needed
( 1 2 all )
Shadler77 5,313 20 07/25/16 02:25 PM
by mountainplayer

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