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Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes
    #1426738 -

If I were to post this:

The other day I did my first trip! LOL OMG So cool, after I ate them I was snorting x and drinking beer at this party I WAS SO FUCKED UP SO COOL. So anyway now I have found the BEST drug so I want to produce lots to always keep me fucked up (SO FUN). Can anybody tell me how I can grow 3 pounds of mushrooms in 3 months so that I can sell them at redneck parties where they will be abused shamelessly and treated with no respect?

Then I would get the response:

Mushrooms are sacred, and a religious sacrament. They are not something you take just to get "fucked up." They are not just another drug to get high on.

Bullshit! Mushrooms are taken for the same reason people smoke weed, take prozac, and drink beer. I fail to see the difference. Please enlighten me.

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1426748 -

You are incorrect. There are many reasons to take mushrooms. If yours is to get fucked up the same way you use beer, then you will miss out.

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1426749 -

It's because of people who abuse psychadelics and other drugs, that they are illegal to begin with. Duh...You don't neccessarily have to use mushrooms and be all 'holy mushroom man' about it. All you have to do is not be a dumbass about using them. Also, mushrooms are an order of magnitude more powerful than beer, weed, and prozac. That's like comparing a GED to a PhD. Technically they are both degrees, but you get the picture I hope. I hope one day you'll see the difference, but if you don't know...you just don't know. Sorry man.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: bert]
    #1426761 -

The mushroom is a powerful TOOL, Dogomush. Don't play with power tools.


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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: chunder]
    #1426797 -

How can you say that mushrooms are more powerful than beer, prozac, or weed?

Prozac completely changes peoples outlook on life. Mushrooms do too, but not more powerfully than prozac. Prozac doesn't give you a bigger trip than shrooms, but it is more subtle. It's the stalking cat in the woods. You pop your pills, and you take the prescription for granted, but it's silently stalking your life, making you happier and more productive, but you don't even know it. Shrooms you eat BAM BAMABOOOM you KNOW mushrooms are impacting you. They aren't sneaky, they aren't silently following you through your life turning you in new directions.

To take the metaphor further, you're walking out in the woods. A huge bear crashes through the woods at you (mushrooms) and so you avoid it by walking into the woods away from the berry bush filled pasture to avoid it. The prozac beast on the other hand turns you into a leashed fish in a pond, and then dr. Prozac pulls you this way and that way and suddenly you're happily employed at corruption corp.

Beer kills WAY more than mushrooms, so it's WAY more powerful than mushrooms. Weed use is closer to prozac use, with it's subtlety.


There are many reasons to take mushrooms.

Bullshit! what are the many reasons to take mushrooms?

Edited by Dogomush (04/03/03 04:37 PM)

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1426830 -

Prozac only affects you if you have a chemical IMBALANCE in the brain. It's bringing you closer to baseline. Shrooms are undoubtedly more powerful on a Shulgin scale. By your faulty logic, water is as powerful as shrooms because it can erode a mountain or keep life flourishing on the planet. Next time you try shrooms or any other psychadelic, instead of focusing on just the pretty colors, try focusing deeper into your mind. No amount of beer will allow you to have an introspectively enlightening experience. Weed is a powerful mind alterant as well, but its effects are more subtle and you have to seek them out more.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: bert]
    #1426847 -

Ugh. I'm sorry I ever responded to this thread. I fart in your general direction.

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: bert]
    #1426859 -

Prozac doesn't affect everybody? That's news to me, and I'm pretty skeptical about that. This whole imaginary "baseline" state of the brain concept is pretty sketchy too. But besides all that,

Hehe ah I see, so you are basing what's more powerful along some kind of scale called the "shulgin" scale. Ok sure, then if you choose to look at drugs through the lense that is this unspecified "shulgin scale" mushrooms are more powerful. However, I've demonstrated that if you choose another lense to look with, you'll find that mushrooms are very weak. For example, water is more powerful because it keeps life flourishing on the planet and can erode a mountain. Can a shroom trip do that? I doubt it. But let's stop the senseless and potentially endless rhetoric.

I've read that when there's a shortage of ayahuasca, many shamans will turn to the bottle, not out of a need for a lift from their ayahuasca-free existence, but to use hard liquor as a ritual intoxicant and make contact with the spirits, and all the other reasons a shaman drinks ayahuasca, so I'm a little skeptical about your stance on beers.

But let's get closer to the point that I'm driving at: Prozac is taken to enjoy life more, right? So are shrooms, beer, and weed, right? Am I right?

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1426885 -

Prozac and shrooms let you appreciate life in a different way. Prozac is a long term gradual acting drug that forces you to feel different. Shrooms are a once in a while thing that gives you the oppurtunity to view life differently. There is a world of a difference. From the sounds of it, I'd almost think you haven't taken mushrooms before. But hey, to each his own, and it would be irresponsible of me to say what you should or should not get out of a psychadelic experience. As long as you consume them responsibly and don't get into trouble, then you can do whatever you want. Get 'fucked up' if that's all you want from it but don't belittle other people's experiences from psychadelics just because you haven't seen things from a different point of view. I've been where you are, extremely skeptical, and I've seen both sides. So, best of luck.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1426895 -

LOL ...........Typical powder wig and sodomy veiw.You must be white,that makes you right eh?Stay away from the sacraments and stick to beer.......party on doood!
Now flame away I deserve it  :grin:WR


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To old for this place

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1426904 -

Quote:
Mushrooms are taken for the same reason people smoke weed, take prozac, and drink beer. I fail to see the difference.


I assume you mean people take these substances to escape from the problems that face them in their daily life.  This is a gross generalization.

Lets look at morphine, a drug that you did not list.  We could claim that people take morphine for the same reason that people drink beer, smoke weed, or take prozac.  However, the lady across the street that is dying from liver cancer is also taking morphine... for the pain relief.

We must each take responsibility for our own actions.  It is not fair to expect others to make moral judgements for us.  If I smoke weed, drink beer, eat mushrooms, and inject morphine to escape the problems in my life, so be it.  It would be very egotistical for me to assume that everybody else taking these substances is taking them for the same reason that I am.  I am not them, how can I know what their motivation is?

If somebody eats mushrooms and has a mind opening experience... why should I judge them?  Why should I assume they were just trying to escape?  Why can I not accept their experience?  If my mind is small, must theirs be as well?

:smile:


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: whiterasta]
    #1426921 -

Can beer change your entire philosphy on life? Mushrooms have that potential. Eat 7grams in a dark room, alone, in silence, with nothing to do, then come back here and make the argument that beer is more powerful.

Prozac is for fixxing a neurological imbalance, Happiness in a pill is how i think of it. It triggers a chemical reaction in the brain...All drugs, or things that make us Feel good do the same. The strength of this reaction in psychadelics is nowhere nearly as strong as the other substances youve mentioned.

Mushrooms are the fruits of the gods, they provide insight in addition to a good time, I dont think anyone cares if you misuse them, just laugh because you could be getting so much more out of them.

About selling them...people just dont want consequences comming down on them, because of someone who has a lack of respect.


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GO OUTSIDE.

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: bert]
    #1426923 -

the point I'm driving at is that drugs are used to help you enjoy your life more, right? Prozac brings you pleasure, and so do mushrooms. Sure, shrooms give you these wild spiritual experiences and make you feel closer to God, whatever, but the bottom line is that you gain pleasure from the experience. Even a bad trip can be pleasureable because you can learn from it and gain insight into your situation, correct?

I purposely started off this thread with the intention of getting everybody's balls in a knot because people don't like to be equated with a 14 year-old shroom eating kid getting fucked up when they're meditating on a shroom trip and achieving a kind of "enlightened" state and seeking meaning in their profound little lives.

I was talking to a friend of mine and he pointed this out. To him there is no difference between eating mushrooms and taking any drug. They all give you pleasure, right, that's why you do them. Stopping the spread of a pustalating infection, reaching enlightenment, and gaining ease in social situations are all done for pleasure, right? I mean, you can't really deny this, but it's also a very basic way of looking at things. You could take the argument and say that all things are done for pleasure, right? But there are some differences among all things.

Can someone help me out here with this? What can you say to this kind of argument? I do believe there is a distinction between using shrooms and taking prozac, but what my friend says IS true, even though there are lots of other true but different things you could say.

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1426977 -

But let's stop the senseless and potentially endless rhetoric.

If we did THAT, then we would have to close down this board. :smile:
 


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Swami]
    #1426985 -

Hmmm yes let's not go too far

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1427139 -

well it looks like this has been a lively thread :smile:

i can understand what dogomush means, it is technically true that you use mushrooms to get pleasure, and you also do many other drugs (and things) for the same reason.

dogomush acknowledges that there are /other/ (many and obvious) differences. for instance one might use shrooms to gain perspective or insight on a problem, rather than just escaping it with alcohol.

given that, i'm not sure what the debate is really about. i think we may have misunderstood what dogomush meant.

on another note i agree with the original sentiment that one shouldnt think that their use or outlook on shrooms is better or more valid than anyone elses. we probably all feel that our way is the most mature, or gets the most  benefits, but we really can't judge others.

anywayz i thought it was funny about the water-comparison. it actually turned out to be a good point that in a way water is more powerful than shrooms, even tho its not something you would practically compare :smile:


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"Judge of a man by his questions rather than by his answers." Voltaire

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1427172 -


I don't agree wiith your argument. In my opinion all things do not boil down to a perpetual quest for pleasure, drug experiences included. If I take 5 dried grams I know that it can be challenging and unpleasant, but pleasure is not the point in those instances, knowledge is. To each his own, that's just my take on it, everyone has free will to follow their own path.


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"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: AislingGheal]
    #1427208 -

:smile: I agree, but if one wanted to be tricky...  just back it up a level. you do it because you want to get knowledge--the fact that you /WANT/ to get knowledge means that since you want it, knowledge must please you, or at least you find it pleasing to try to get knowledge. if it pleases you, its pleasure :smile:

and not that thats how i feel, that's just why his argument can be valid in the context in which it is intended


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"Judge of a man by his questions rather than by his answers." Voltaire

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: prince_toadstool]
    #1427275 -


I knew that was coming. That is one possible interpretation but the way I see it is that knowledge can be painful as well. If pleasure were the goal I would choose an easier route. To make a long story short my view is this; Pleasure does not equal Truth or vice-versa. I base this on my experiences but I do not believe I can prove this point to be valid beyond a shadow of doubt.


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"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: AislingGheal]
    #1427291 -

o, right, i wouldnt ever say that truth is the same thing as pleasure (i just meant that they might go hand in hand if u like persuing the truth, like u and i) ne ways enough post modernism for one night i think :smile:


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"Judge of a man by his questions rather than by his answers." Voltaire

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1427299 -

Ok well the only thing I can relate to this is that... Prozac has not been a driving force in the evolution of mankind for thousands of years..

You seem to think that everybody has the same hedonistic view towards usage of Drugs that you do. Not me however..

To me I distinguish Mind Altering Drugs from Entheogens..

Mind Altering Drugs or MAD (lol) are Substances which whilst having some beneficial effects, even some quasi-spiritual effects, have the potential to cause physical harm, have abuse potential, potential for addiction and generally are more often than not Synthetic or Highly refined plant products (eg. Cocaine). The purpose of most Mind Altering Drugs is mostly  to experience a pleasurable state or to interact  in a social environment.. thats being pretty general though.

"Entheogens"  are naturally occuring substances, ie mushrooms, cacti, trees, plants. They have a documented historical  usage amongst native cultures, they have a wide variety of uses, ranging from healing to divination. They are regarded as sacred by native cultures.

Whilst Entheogens have the potential to elicit states of pure exstacy and extremely pleasurable states.. the pleasure in itself is not the sole reason for taking the Entheogen.. The Entheogen user may experience terrifying ordeals that in no way can be described as pleasurable... the substance may make the user incredibly sick and distressed.. most people would not consider this to be a pleasurable experience..but the sickness, the fear, the anxiety is a part of the entheogenic experience, part of the healing aspect of the substances..

What am i saying really?? I am saying that while pleasure is a part of an etheogenic experience. It is not the sole reason for its use.

Mushrooms are beautiful and I just can't bear to see them compared to something so mundane as beer and prozac.

I acknowledge that my argument may be flawed :ooo: 

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: prince_toadstool]
    #1427300 -


No problem, I'm with you, I'm putting aside the pursuit of truth in favor of the pleasure of sleep. Goodnight to all and to all a good night



--------------------

"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: AislingGheal]
    #1427572 -

...by the way, the only one time i tried prozac...it made me sleeping !

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: KOPELANDIAA]
    #1427687 -

I fucking love you guys, you guys are great, this thread is great. It's actually really exciting to read down and see all the crazy thoughts people have. It's nuts, mankind is so cool. bFUCKING MUSHRCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

(howls at the moon)

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1427899 -

Im going to reply to this post, before reading any furthur argument.

I rarely use mushrooms recreationally...say twice out of 20+ times ive taken mushrooms...i use fungus for the experience, and insight my own brain picking itself clean can provide. I use fungus to reevaluate my life situation, and wether it is the right one, how i could improve it or change it.

I generally take mushrooms alone, in highdoses...my 7g trip was absolutely agonizing in every sense. Nausea was horrible, muscle pain was so intense i contorted my body in ways unknown previously, What went on in my head was sheer terror...Comming down with a working brain let me evaluate the terror that had happened, and turn it into positive information....This is more or less the basis for a typical trip for me. They are positive in the end, certainly not pleasureable.

I mean, i see where your comming from...i certainly think mushrooms can be used socially, or for having fun, or whatever...its just for me, people who do that are using a sacrament incorrectly, and will not experience what the sacrament has to offer. Mushrooms have been used for thousands of years as a sacrament, other common recreational drugs are not....and thus do not have the same rules which SHOULD be "respected"....


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GO OUTSIDE.

Edited by PDU (04/04/03 06:52 AM)

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1427921 -

Enlighten yourself cause you know it all already...... :mad:

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: TxTec]
    #1428372 -

Masturbation and reading Dostoyevsky are both sources of pleasure (for me, anyway), but this does not mean they are the same thing. They affect the brain in different ways, a person comes away from the experience changed in different ways...

After spanking it, I have relieved sexual tension and can go about my day without thinking about my girlfriend's blowjobs every fifteen seconds. After reading The Idiot, I have been entertained by great storytelling and (if I am aware enough to absorb the meaning of the book) have a somewhat better understanding of human nature.

Beer, for me, is gratification, the loosening of inhibition, partying with friends, maybe some drunken crazy sex. Man I need to masturbate soon.

Weed is a conversational drug for me, deeply listening to some good music, maybe some creative writing. For me, it stimulates thinking and the desire to communicate.

Mushrooms and other entheogens are (again, for me) Illumination. I return to the experience of eating mushrooms because the first time I ate them I felt what it was like to be truly ALIVE. Nothing else had ever given me such direct access to experience before; I had not been aware that I had been walking through a fog almost all of the rest of my days. The experience was transforming. I have only tripped a handful of times, but the experiences have changed the course of my life, eventually leading me to investigate Eastern spiritual practices and waking me up to political and social realities about the world we have created.

Now all these expereinces are pleasurable in some way, but this hardly makes them the SAME. You know what I'm saying? To claim they are the same is to indulge in reductionism, which is like saying 15 dollars and 1500 are the same thing because they both have a lowest common denominator of three. Nonsense.

Again, sorry for farting at you.

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: sunyata]
    #1429123 -

you're completely forgiven!

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Re: Sick of mushroom holy man fruitcakes [Re: Dogomush]
    #1431778 -

All i have to say is that under the influence of mushrooms I have learned things about life which can NEVER be changed. If you think shrooms are just a way to get fucked up, take a high dose in a safe place and please tell me your opinion hasn't changed. I have taken very high doses because of a very strong trust for myself and the mushroom which has been built upon many encounters, most other people would not dare taking 10g dry, or 8g with syrian rue.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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