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OfflineMushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Nothing exists
    #1337875 - 02/26/03 02:05 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

This is from the Spirituality forum but it really belongs here. Can anyone who knows quantum theory expand on the idea that nothing exists. Based on probability. I'm no physicist but from what I can tell this is how it goes. More than 99% of everything is made up of nothing. The nucleus of an atom is tiny as are any electrons in the cloud around it. Most of the volume of an atom is empty space. Now, electrons don't actually exist but rather are seen as having a probability wave of existance. So they might appear here or there but you don't know, all you have is a probability of them being somewhere. From this I can assume that nothing really exists but rests on the quantum possibilty of existing somewhere. I think I've really messed up this description but that is why I posted this. Can anyone shed some light on this?


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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 446
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Re: Nothing exists [Re: MushyMay]
    #1338458 - 02/26/03 06:24 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

As I understand physics (although my grasp on quantum physics is still in it infancy), you can find the position of an electron. The problem is that you can't find the position and the velocity of said electron. The more you know about one of these properties the less you know of the other.

If 99% or even 99.99999999999999999999999999999999% of everything is made up of nothing, then that 1% or less is still there right? Then what is isn't made up of nothing, it just happens to have a lot of holes. Swiss cheese is still cheese and still exists, even if it does have large holes in its parts.


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Offlinesocratesmind
old hand

Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 1,193
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Re: Nothing exists [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1338663 - 02/26/03 08:08 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

well we can never tell the position of an electron for future reference. we can only guess the probability of its exsistance in a certain position given a definate time and space. thing with quantum mechanics is that electrons act like particles and waves. now the claim that we don't exsist i think is false? we think therefore we are as some famous philosopher said. how can we deny our exsistance. and how do u know this nothing is not actually something that we just can't conceieve. if someone wants to start a thread on quantum mechanics it'd be a fun subject to exchange truths and disprove rumors about as its a very interesting subject.


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Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Re: Nothing exists [Re: MushyMay]
    #1338878 - 02/26/03 09:57 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"Nothing exists" is a paradox.

For something to exist is has to be something, I would think. "Nothing" from what I understand is the opposite of "something," and therefore cannot exist outside of pure abstraction.

But as for quantum theory I thought we CAN project the future velocity OR spin of a particle by mapping out its wave function using the Schrodinger equation.. maybe we need a quantum thread, as quantum theory absolutely fascinates me.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (02/26/03 10:01 PM)


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Offlineblaze2
The Witness
Male

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Re: Nothing exists [Re: Strumpling]
    #1341665 - 02/27/03 11:21 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

i assume by Schrodinger you are reffering to the cat experiment. a cat is placed in a box and has a device with a small amount of radioactive substance so much that it might or might have one atom of this material decay in one hour. if it does decay then a lever is triggered and a hammer that hits a vial of hydrochloric acid. thus killing the cat. so if after an hour the cat can be both alive and dead. a strange paradox. of course its one or the other but until u open the box u cant know. its state of being is only resolved by observation.

the fact that electrons can move in two directions at the same instant is why quantum computers(which are all theory by the way but it has been put in practice at very delicate conditions temps around absolute zero.) would be so fast that they could factor out a number 100s of digits long in a few moments. while conventional comps would take millions of years(i read this in discover magazine i will try to find a link.)

from my understanding it would be impossibel to state to a fact where an electron is but possible to predict because of its polarity. i dont have any idea if what i said made sense but i think im pretty close not bad considering im only 17. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

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OfflineJackal
Well Versed In Etiquette
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Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 4,571
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Nothing exists [Re: MushyMay]
    #1341668 - 02/27/03 11:28 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The probability that nothing is currently existing is greater than 0, and less than 1. More likely closer to 0.

However the probability that nothing has existed = 0
Therefore the probabilty the something has existed = 1


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OfflineMushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Nothing exists [Re: socratesmind]
    #1343259 - 02/28/03 04:32 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I knew that I was stretching it a bit with the topic, I'm not very good at communicating ideas on this type of thing because I don't often converse with people who understand what I'm on about. I think this is what I was trying to get at:
Quote:

well we can never tell the position of an electron for future reference. we can only guess the probability of its exsistance in a certain position given a definate time and space.


The idea that we can't describe the existance of elementary particles, only the probability of their existance (by existance I mean position, velocity etc.)

I would definitely be interested in a thread about Quantum Physics, it's a hardcore topic that is so interesting. It's just so hard to find people who actually understand it (even people like me who have a vague understanding of it seem few and far between.)


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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.


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InvisibleCuriousByN8ure
Stranger

Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 47
Re: Nothing exists [Re: MushyMay]
    #1344055 - 02/28/03 11:25 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

A fitting quote "...I can add, subtract, divide and multiply, but you lose me at
fractions. Anyway, it seems as you peel back the onion of the atom, as
you get into smaller and smaller particles, you find that they might not
be particles at all. So sub-atomic particles might really just be
vibrating waves of energy. The essential building block of everything is nothing..."


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Offlineiconoclast
what nothing is,and to fill orrefill
Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 30
Loc: SFV
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Re: Nothing exists [Re: MushyMay]
    #1365913 - 03/11/03 12:23 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

this is someting i know little about, and would love to learn more about, i'm totally for a quantum thread. how exactly do they weigh an electron, I know there a numerical wieght that is commonly accepted?-1C()/\/


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doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one.


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