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primordia
    #12980045 -

I'm doing pinheads initiation of Shiitake mushroom. Does a humidity of 90% affect the initiation, as i read that it should be 95%-100%. All other parameters are there accordingly.
And if so, do i have to prolong the pinheads initiation to more days than the specified 5-7 days?

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Re: primordia [Re: bik123]
    #12980485 -

Hello.
Welcome to the Shroomery :smile:

1) are the blocks brown?
2) have you dunked the blocks in water?
3) have you cold shocked them?

Have a nice day,
Fabio

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Re: primordia [Re: FreeSporePrints]
    #12983213 -

According, as i read in The Mushroom Cultivator (Paul Stamets) they mentioned once the blocks are colonized and 1/3 to 1/2 brown, one can go ahead with the initiation and so, that's exactly what i did, by stripping the plastic bags.
Is it not that one dunks the block and cold soaks it after the first flush?
What i'm doing is misting it regularly keeping the surface slightly wet. It's been 7 days now and my humidity is around 90%. Do i bring down the humidity level to around 60%-80% now or only after more pinheads are formed?
My previous trial, was prolonged to about a month and molds appeared at that high humidity.

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Re: primordia [Re: bik123]
    #12983576 -

Hello Bik,
in my experience every grower can find your own strategy to initiate the pinning.

Perhaps the Stamet's method you are following lacks of something, for example are you giving a good air exchange and light amount?

In my direct experience I dunked the blocks in water, than after 4-5 days in the green house at room temp the blocks started pinning.

In my opinion is always better to dunk a block before the pinning: mushrooms are 90% and more water, and mushrooms pop up after the rains, so water can't damage anyway the blocks.

Remember to wash under the faucet the blocks one day yes and one day no, so mold can't attack the block.

About misting, try to lower the humidity rate and keep us updated :wink:

Fabio

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Re: primordia [Re: FreeSporePrints]
    #12984154 -

Fabio, yes absolutely the air exchange is perfect (4 Fans) and fresh air as well and the lights are on like 8hrs a day.

And i guess, each has their own methods learned from experiences.

Do u think i can still dunk the same blocks after 7 days of doing the previous method?

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Re: primordia [Re: bik123]
    #12984817 -

Hello bik,
yes, dunk them, and keep us updated.

You should first cold shock them some days in the fridge (4°C) and then dunk it.

In 4-5 days you should see pins.

Fabio

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Re: primordia [Re: FreeSporePrints]
    #12987478 -

Fabio,

As i was reading all the necessary details at the forum site, i realized there are 3 ways.
1. As soon as the bumps show, strip the bag and expose to fruiting conditions
2. As soon as the bumps show, strip the bag and expose to conditions that favor browning, and after the block is brown, expose to fruiting conditions
3. Let the block brown in the bag, and then strip the bag and expose the block to fruiting conditions

It looks like mine is the no 1 and i stripped the bags when it was 1/3 brown and for the last 8 days has been misting it regularly. All parameters are fine. Some blocks has formed tiny primordia while others have not.

Do i still cold shock them (how many days?) and then dunk them? And how long do i have to let it rest before following fruiting conditions?

Or, do u think i should straight away, the white blocks with 1/3 brown, bring to fruiting conditions without dunking?

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Re: primordia [Re: bik123]
    #12988393 -

Hello Bik,
generally you should remove the plastic after the blocks are brown, however not every strain turns brown, so you can't base on this factor.

If you can see primordia but no sign of primordia growth the problem can be the temperature or the water.

If you cold shock the primordia generally die, so in this situation I believe the best thing, because cold shockin is a pinning strategy (and we have pins), dunk it overnight, and you should see mushrooms in 4-5 days at fruiting conditions. Put in a container the block, but do no touch it constantly, primordia become fragile in water.

Fabio

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Re: primordia [Re: FreeSporePrints]
    #12989280 -

Thanks Fabio, i will be doing it soon. And the next time, i will make sure that the block is brown before all things else.
Nevertheless, ive compiled each steps for next time. But, questions remains.

Steps
1-Wait until the blocks are browned and blistered.Remove from the bag and set on a shelf for 1 week to dry out and form a crust.
2-Then soak for 24 hours
3-After the soak, place in the growing room. Do not raise the humidity to 100% but, let it rest for few days.(How long)
4-Then, follow the fruiting conditions

So, my question is:-
1-When does one cold shocks it at 4C for pinheads and for how long? Is it really necessary?
or
2-Does one forego this part and instead, after the soak, initiate the pinheads? But they mentioned to let it rest for a few days. Perhaps after that, initiate by bringing up the humidity to 95%-100% and the tempt 16C-27C?
or
3-After the soak, with parameters adjusted for fruiting, pinheads and fruit bodies develop on its own?

Confused.

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Re: primordia [Re: bik123]
    #12990960 -

Ciao Bik,

bik123 said:
Thanks Fabio, i will be doing it soon. And the next time, i will make sure that the block is brown before all things else.
Nevertheless, ive compiled each steps for next time. But, questions remains.


There aren't some fixed rules. You should observe the blocks and their environment :smile:

Quote:
1-Wait until the blocks are browned and blistered.Remove from the bag and set on a shelf for 1 week to dry out and form a crust.
2-Then soak for 24 hours
3-After the soak, place in the growing room. Do not raise the humidity to 100% but, let it rest for few days.(How long)
4-Then, follow the fruiting conditions



Generally you should see the shiitake blocks "popcorning" under the plastic layer. That's the point you should remove the plastic and dunk them. This happens also when the blocks aren't 100% brown. Sometime they don't popcorning at all. Like I said, you should observe, find the right way for your strain and stick to it.

Quote:
So, my question is:-
1-When does one cold shocks it at 4C for pinheads and for how long? Is it really necessary?
or
2-Does one forego this part and instead, after the soak, initiate the pinheads? But they mentioned to let it rest for a few days. Perhaps after that, initiate by bringing up the humidity to 95%-100% and the tempt 16C-27C?
or
3-After the soak, with parameters adjusted for fruiting, pinheads and fruit bodies develop on its own?

Confused.


1) you don't see primordia during the cold shock. The cold shock is important to induce primordia. Cold shock is for 4-7 days.

2) depending from the environment you can dunk without cold shock. But if the primordia doesn't pop up a good thing is cold shock. Finished the cold shock you give common 85-90% of humidity and 16-24°C temperature.

3) with the right environment after a cold shock you'll see primordia on day 4 or 5.

Fabio

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Re: primordia [Re: FreeSporePrints]
    #12994126 -

Fabio, thanks for the fast response.
In short, it all depends on the strain and one has to observe and take note as things develops along the way. So, what is written in  the books, might not be necessarily true as each steps along the way, different strains behaves differently.

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Re: primordia [Re: bik123]
    #12994861 -

I always feel the weight of the block before I strip the bag off.  If it's still nice and heavy, I skip the soak in water until after first flush.  If the blocks over-hydrate it will slow things down and make the shiitake susceptible to green molds.

In warm climates, Shiitake fruit in the fall outdoors after cold weather hits.  They need the temp to drop to below 50F/12C or so to signal them to start pinning.  In my climate, shiitake will fruit all summer because the temperature drops that low every night.  If yours have not been exposed to cold, set them out overnight, or if it's warm in your area at night, put them in the refrigerator for 1 day.

Shiitake like a day/night temperature differential.  Try to make it warmer during the day when your lights are on than at night by around 5 to 10 degrees.  They also like a fluctuating humidity.  I'll often spray my blocks down with a hose, and then let the humidity drop for a day as they dry off.

After two flushes, I set the spent blocks outdoors in the shade where they fruit all summer, producing five to ten additional flushes.  Some of my blocks from two years ago are still fruiting outdoors, surviving -30F temperatures under the snow all winter and then fruiting again the following summer.
RR


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Re: primordia [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13301672 -

Fabio,
Again i'm doing the Shiitake pinheads initiation. There are 2 methods i see.
1- after being brown and opening the plastic bag, bringing the humidity to 95%-100%, with tempt of 16-21C with other variables kept constant.

2- After stripping the bags and dunking for a day and directly taking the block to fruiting parameters of humidity 60-80%, tempt around 25C

My day tempt for the room is 25C and humidity around 70. At night, the tempt is around 22C and hiumidity, around 80.

Do u think, my variables is good enough for the pinning strategy and which option do u reccommend?

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Re: primordia [Re: bik123]
    #13304013 -

if your logs are already brown then keep the humidity high and fluctuate the temperature every day by at least 10 deg C.

i would not recommend either of your methods based on not enough temp fluctuation unless in the 2nd method you intend using cold water around 12 deg C


--------------------
One of these days all the answers will be revealed until then we learn from each other!

www.mushrush.co.za

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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