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Is isolation really betteR?
    #12609376 -

This question has been probably asked. Ive messed with isolated strains and multispores. I don't notice a huge difference in the isolated strains compared to the MS.

What exactly does an isolation of a strain help in the growth of the mushrooms?


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I believe that if people would learn to use LSD's vision-inducing capability more wisely, under suitable conditions, in medical practice and in conjunction with meditation, then in the future this problem child could become a wonderchild. - HOFFMAN

My Print/Syringe Trade List

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: Smartweed]
    #12609383 -

Even pin sets and if you select well fast colonization. If you prepare several isolates and compare the final fruits you can also select based on potency.


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Wildflower seed on the sand and stone, may the four winds blow you safely home
Curriculum vapidum (dry herb vapes)

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: Smartweed]
    #12609420 -

Ideally, isolated strains allow you to work with known, consistent traits.

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: Elementium]
    #12609435 -

Norom said:
Ideally, isolated strains allow you to work with known, consistent traits.


How do you know your getting good traits? Does a more rhizomorphic sector really mean its going to be better?


--------------------
I believe that if people would learn to use LSD's vision-inducing capability more wisely, under suitable conditions, in medical practice and in conjunction with meditation, then in the future this problem child could become a wonderchild. - HOFFMAN

My Print/Syringe Trade List

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: Smartweed]
    #12609714 -

Smartweed said:
Norom said:
Ideally, isolated strains allow you to work with known, consistent traits.


How do you know your getting good traits? Does a more rhizomorphic sector really mean its going to be better?



You sector until you have monoculture's and then fruit them all out to see their traits, make sure to label every one


--------------------

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: Smartweed]
    #12610044 -

Smartweed said:
Norom said:
Ideally, isolated strains allow you to work with known, consistent traits.


How do you know your getting good traits? Does a more rhizomorphic sector really mean its going to be better?


You have to grow it out to discover its traits.

A good way to obtain a strong strain is to clone the inner tissue from a mushroom that displays the characteristics you find appealing.

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: Elementium]
    #12610084 -

Norom said:
Smartweed said:
Norom said:
Ideally, isolated strains allow you to work with known, consistent traits.


How do you know your getting good traits? Does a more rhizomorphic sector really mean its going to be better?


You have to grow it out to discover its traits.

A good way to obtain a strong strain is to clone the inner tissue from a mushroom that displays the characteristics you find appealing.


That wont result in a Iso tho, a sample even from a single specimen can have many genetics


--------------------

Pf tek done right
How to Sterilize a Syringe
Quick and Easy Pasteurization
Quick and Easy LC
Pan Cyans without a PC
4 Easy step rye

AMU Q&A link

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: Shea25]
    #12616611 -

Shea25 said:
That wont result in a Iso tho, a sample even from a single specimen can have many genetics



If you use a tiny bit of tissue from a mushroom to start an agar culture, the culture will be an isolated strain.

I think.

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #12617524 -

Norom said:
You have to grow it out to discover its traits.

A good way to obtain a strong strain is to clone the inner tissue from a mushroom that displays the characteristics you find appealing.




Shea25 said:
That wont result in a Iso tho, a sample even from a single specimen can have many genetics





Alan Rockefeller said:
Shea25 said:
That wont result in a Iso tho, a sample even from a single specimen can have many genetics



If you use a tiny bit of tissue from a mushroom to start an agar culture, the culture will be an isolated strain.

I think.





  :popcorn:


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Grain LC's      Damion5050's Coir Tek      RR's Rye Grain Preperation      Strain Isolation

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Losers always whine about their best,Winners go home & fuck the prom queen!

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #12617634 -


Alan Rockefeller said:
Shea25 said:
That wont result in a Iso tho, a sample even from a single specimen can have many genetics



If you use a tiny bit of tissue from a mushroom to start an agar culture, the culture will be an isolated strain.

I think.


No.
The culture will be a clone. An isolate is a single family mono-culture. Like shea said a sample from a single specimen can still have many genetics. An isolate is a family selected out the fastest running sectors of mycelium in a petri dish until you have the fastest of the fastest of families, a single family mono culture. Just because, however that particular family of mycelium ran faster than the rest does not determine potency. The only way potency and or looks can be determined from a single family isolate is to grow said mono culture out in to fruits and observe how they behave.

to the OP Informative Disscusion on Cloning vs. Isolating and the Various Uses of Agar.


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How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.

Edited by LiquidMyce (05/24/10 06:26 PM)

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: hamloaf]
    #12617788 -

Thanks,I had a feeling shea25 was right...

Nice thread you got/had going there Hamloaf...toggled to the favorites :thumbup:


--------------------
Grain LC's      Damion5050's Coir Tek      RR's Rye Grain Preperation      Strain Isolation

To my haters




Losers always whine about their best,Winners go home & fuck the prom queen!

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: Shea25]
    #12620818 -

Shea25 said:
Norom said:
Smartweed said:
Norom said:
Ideally, isolated strains allow you to work with known, consistent traits.


How do you know your getting good traits? Does a more rhizomorphic sector really mean its going to be better?


You have to grow it out to discover its traits.

A good way to obtain a strong strain is to clone the inner tissue from a mushroom that displays the characteristics you find appealing.


That wont result in a Iso tho, a sample even from a single specimen can have many genetics


That's why you have to grow it out on agar and make sure your getting a monoculture. like shea posted earlier.


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Staunch supporter of spontaneous generation:cheers:
           

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: whitelight7]
    #12623885 -

Even if you grow it out on agar and it is a monoculture that doesnt make it an isolate by the definition I know. An isolate comes from two spores. A clone comes from a fruit body which if originally from MS, many spores mated and those hyphae mated and they all come together into one..then those genetics are the same as in the fruit body..made up of genetics from more then just two spores.

This is as I understand it from reading RR's posts.

I still kinda think it should be called an isolate.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12624115 -

scatmanrav said:
Even if you grow it out on agar and it is a monoculture that doesnt make it an isolate by the definition I know. An isolate comes from two spores. A clone comes from a fruit body which if originally from MS, many spores mated and those hyphae mated and they all come together into one..then those genetics are the same as in the fruit body..made up of genetics from more then just two spores.

This is as I understand it from reading RR's posts.

I still kinda think it should be called an isolate.


Agree. A clone is also an isolate, single strain, mono-culture. Same thing. You may have derived it via cloning a mushroom, but it's still a isolated strain.

Two or more strains creating one mushroom, together, without joining or exchanging genetic material?
That sounds like science fiction.

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: Sci-Fi]
    #12625018 -

Sci-Fi said:
Agree. A clone is also an isolate, single strain, mono-culture. Same thing. You may have derived it via cloning a mushroom, but it's still a isolated strain.

Two or more strains creating one mushroom, together, without joining or exchanging genetic material?
That sounds like science fiction.


You are incorrect, as is scatmanrav.

There can be dozens of strains conspiring to form a single fruiting body, without these strains combining into a single organism.  This is well known and established in mycology.  Paul Stamets reports isolating up to 200 organisms from a single fruit.  It's not science fiction, it's science.  Picture thousands of individual soldiers in an army going to battle.  Each is separate, yet conspire to form the coherent fighting force.

An isolate can either come from a pairing of two compatible hyphae from separate spores, or from mycelium that has later combined via anastomosis into a single organism.  There can be monokaryotic pairings with other mononucleate mycelium, dikaryotic pairings with other multinucleate mycelium, or mono-dikaryotic pairings.  You know you have an isolate when there is no more sectoring on agar.

To the OP, rhizomorphic mycelium is not the only characteristic we isolate for.  The important thing is to get to single sectors and then fruit out each strain.  This is the only proved way to find the best performing strains.  Many rhizomorphic strains will be poor performers, but some will blow your socks off.  The latter are the ones you keep, discarding the former.  The only way to know is to fruit each one.  It's a long process, but it's fun and how we come up with the best commercial strains.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12625504 -

Im aware that a clone may not be an isolate..but it may also be an isolate. While not one from two hyphae from two spores, it may have gone through anastamosis and have become one. I thought it couldnt become one even if it went through that.

I was responding to the comment above on if theres no sectors, I didnt think that made it an isolate, even though it kinda makes sense to me to call it one. I guess it actually is one? Just not one made from two hyphae.

I was already assuming from the way it was worded that there was no sectoring on our imaginary clone were speaking of.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12627997 -

RogerRabbit said:
There can be dozens of strains conspiring to form a single fruiting body, without these strains combining into a single organism.  This is well known and established in mycology.  Paul Stamets reports isolating up to 200 organisms from a single fruit.
RR


In what book? Let's say I went totally crazy and wanted to read all about it. Where can I find more info on research that's proven this to be true?

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12628659 -

scatmanrav said:
Im aware that a clone may not be an isolate..but it may also be an isolate.


Correct.  I apologize for assuming too much.  A clone certainly can be an isolate, and they often are.  If there's no sectoring, it is.  However, it's also possible that a clone taken in another spot on the fruit might not be an isolate.  A good way to tell is to take five or six samples from various parts of a fruit, and after culturing, place them on a dish together.  If they all grow into a common whole, with no line of separation, then it's an isolate and contains all the genetics that went into making up the fruit.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12628958 -

I think it makes a big difference. Why do you think people selectively breed iris, marijuana, orchids, and every other commercially grown plant on the planet earth? Fungi is no different. People wish to maximize growth rate, yield, strength, etc.

Their is a huge difference in different spores. I've taken a spore print on 10 petri dishes and noticed far different growth on each plate. Some spores grow 30X+ faster then other spores. That is just one variable, growth. If you truly are isolating, you are going for not only aggressive growth, but yield, flavor, etc.

Real world example; You are growing fungi to sell at the local farmers market. Would you rather have a fungi that takes 3 weeks from inoculation to fruit or 6 weeks? Would you rather have a fungi that produces a 10 pounds of wet fungi to 5 lbs of spawn or would you rather have 3 pounds of wet fungi to 5 lbs of spawn?

On a side note, why nobody compares spawn weight to yield... I wish I knew. Seems like a very important variable considering how much spawn is utilized in lets say, commercial mushroom farms. Could you image if someone made a isolate that used 1/4 the spawn to produce the same amount of mushrooms? Wouldn't that boost profits and productivity exponentially for the production run? Business Process Reengineering...


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Edited by iluvfungi (05/25/10 11:51 PM)

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Re: Is isolation really betteR? [Re: iluvfungi]
    #12629189 -

Quote:
On a side note, why nobody compares spawn weight to yield... I wish I knew. Seems like a very important variable considering how much spawn is utilized in lets say, commercial mushroom farms. Could you image if someone made a isolate that used 1/4 the spawn to produce the same amount of mushrooms? Wouldn't that boost profits and productivity exponentially for the production run? Business Process Reengineering...


We do.  It's referred to as level of supplementation.  With shiitake, we try to use as much supplementation as possible, without impacting fruiting later.  If over supplemented, shiitake, like cubensis forms mutant blobs of tissue with no caps.  The optimum level of supplementation for colonization is higher than that for fruiting.  It's one of the reasons we allow the substrates to consolidate before fruiting.  This allows the mycelium to use up/absorb the excess nutrients, leaving the substrate at the right level for fruiting.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Advanced Mycology
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