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Is this world a "vale of tears" or not?
    #12164725 -

Would you guys agree this world is basically a world of suffering or not?

Christianity states this world is a "vale of tears", full of sorrows that are to be left behind when one enters heaven. Buddhism similarly states that life ultimately is or leads to suffering/uneasiness (dukkha) in one way or another. Hinduism also sees life as painful, full of distress that is only temporarily masked by earthly pleasures so the highest goal of life should be in escape from the endless round of birth, death, and rebirth.

This goes contrary to the Western new age and self-help concepts stating that people can choose to be happy, all the time, no matter the circumstances. A somewhat similar concept is pervading the Western pharmacology by the over-prescription of anti-depressant drugs and stating that painful emotions such as depression are useless and basicly nothing more that a disease to be medicated and eradicated.

What would you say? Is this world a fucked up place where salvation is possible only on the other side, or do we need to change our distorted thoughts, and open our eyes to see that the world is a happy place full of rainbows, love and laughter.


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"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? *DELETED* [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #12164799 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #12164820 -

redtailedhawk said:
Quote:
What would you say? Is this world a fucked up place


yes

Quote:
or do we need to change our distorted thoughts, and open our eyes to see that the world is a happy place full of rainbows, love and laughter.


If we would only change our ACTIONS toward each other, and treat others the way we wish to be treated, we wouldn't have to worry about "distorted thoughts".  :peace:

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #12164948 -

When you go beyond the suffering yourself, then naturally you bring joy into the world
Its not about casting off the world because its dirty & full of suffering
Its about waking up to who you are, then bringing that beauty into the world in inummerable ways

Some say spirituality has no physical benefit so its pointless
I feel it has tremendous physical benefit without even being so 'needy' of the physcial realm, because it brings happiness
Happiness benefits everyone & everything

So yes, this world is a veil of tears, but you wipe away the veil, then smile
As then the world is seen to be none other than your Self


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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #12165285 -

Because of death and decay there is suffering. That is root cause. Other sufferings manifest from this.

But life is not all suffering and some make it much worse then it has to be. Or should I say for some it feels worse then it has to be.

The problem as I see it is we are taught to deny death and decay. We are taught it is not ok to fail. This is the source of tremendous suffering imo. And it's gotten worse with time now that the high priests of science and culture tell us we are so special that we deserve immortality.

We suffer because we cling to that which is not possible.

As I said in another thread if all of humanity had the mind set of a bout 1% of the human population then we would be good to go. Having a pretty good experience here for the most part. That's what I think. Cause when I'm out hiking and fishin with my dog or with a great friend tripping balls in a canyon. Life feels fine.:heart: But it won't last.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: Icelander]
    #12165429 -

there's a lot of different kinds of suffering

i think a lot can be summed up as wanting something to be different than it is - so acceptance of everything seems to be key


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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: deff]
    #12167769 -

Some people suffer, other people enjoy life.  Which type of person are you gonna be?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: deCypher]
    #12168576 -

I see suffering as just a perception of the brain. Most of it exists to keep the organism alive.

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: Jaegar]
    #12168595 -

I would say of course this world is a vale of tears.  Only because it is in the grasp of ignorance and suffering.  In the hands of grasping men and women.  Asking even further, what does the existence of such a world say about the nature of our universe?

I understand that reality is what you make it, but if suffering is universal, could our way of dealing with it be somewhat of a mental evolutionary change somehow?

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: DJ_avocado]
    #12168603 -

You'll find pain and suffering take a back seat when a organism is put in a life and death situation.

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: Jaegar]
    #12168611 -

Maybe people just forget to be grateful for what they have.

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? *DELETED* [Re: Lakefingers]
    #12169235 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #12169238 -

Does that come hand in hand with schadenfreude?  :naughty:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? *DELETED* [Re: deCypher]
    #12169261 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #12169463 -

Everyone suffers. Some suffer because they have no choice, yet others sometimes walk in the midst of suffering at will. Some make others suffer, either indirectly or just plain violently.

It's part of this human condition, and as long as there are humans suffering will exist.

The world is a "Vale of Tears" for many reasons, number one being the fact so many people don't care. Because so many people don't care, there exists in this world a very very awful condition.

I think that people, with such a glorious and undeniable gift - to actually understand on an emotional level JUST HOW BAD THINGS ARE - should use that gift to change things.

Problem is, I don't see it happening. Idealism goes only so far


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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: redtailedhawk] * 1
    #12169472 -

Would you guys agree this world is basically a world of suffering or not?

Or not... If I'm understanding of the meaning suffering correctly.
The world assuredly has suffering in it, but it is not the world.
It is a piece of the world. There is much else going on along side.

And we can definitely lessen to a large degree the suffering we are subjected to, simply by allowing ourselves to experience it. Not running from it, not hiding. Experience it once, and it fades, it is impermanent. Resist it, and you create something that will be back for more. And more, and more and more. It's amazing how much we try to avoid experiences of pain or negative emotions, but it is exactly such effort that causes them to be so bad.


This goes contrary to the Western new age and self-help concepts stating that people can choose to be happy, all the time, no matter the circumstances. A somewhat similar concept is pervading the Western pharmacology by the over-prescription of anti-depressant drugs and stating that painful emotions such as depression are useless and basicly nothing more that a disease to be medicated and eradicated.

Yeah, don't think it's going to eradicate anything, only exacerbate it. :lol:
Depression is on the rise, has been for a while. I'll post some statistics if anyone is interested.

Lifetime prevalence (1994 study)
13% men
21% women
Estimated annual cost: $44 Billion

Antidepressents (2003 study)
~67% of all patients diagnosed with depression in the US were prescribed to antidepressants
Of this 67%, 30-50% do not show any response to the medications.
For 30-50% of this population they are not effective at all.
For those who are still depressed at the time of starting a medication regiment, stopping medication results in the depression coming back even worse.
This is important, because NO antidepressant lasts. They all lose effectiveness over time.
At some point, the person is going to have to deal with it -- and when they do, it's going to be worse.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: Kickle]
    #12169568 -

Kickle said:
And we can definitely lessen to a large degree the suffering we are subjected to, simply by allowing ourselves to experience it. Not running from it, not hiding. Experience it once, and it fades, it is impermanent. Resist it, and you create something that will be back for more. And more, and more and more. It's amazing how much we try to avoid experiences of pain or negative emotions, but it is exactly such effort that causes them to be so bad.


i like this :thumbup:

the pain/emotion is often out of our control, but the desire for something better creates the bulk of the suffering imo


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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: deff]
    #12169612 -

Hey Deff,
I started reading that book you linked a while back, Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha.

Thanks.
Sorry for the resistance, but I genuinely didn't feel I would enjoy it. The first chapter was good though, and the second even better. It's amazing what a little perspective change can do for ya. I'm looking at this enormous literature review I'm doing as an exercise in concentration rather than an assignment for someone else. That really helps in being motivated. Bringing aspects I can personally get something out of into the picture.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? [Re: Kickle]
    #12170143 -

awesome! it's an incredible book, helped me understand things a lot more :heart:

sounds like a good strategy too


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Re: Is this world a "vale of tears" or not? *DELETED* [Re: deff]
    #12175430 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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