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InvisibleRavus
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Antidepressants
    #2545499 - 04/10/04 01:23 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It seems more and more people are on antidepressants everyday. I don't know why this is, but it's everywhere; on the shroomery, in real life, in the people I meet, everywhere. Antidepressants. Because they constantly feel sad or down or bored, and life seems dull and they want to be happy again. So take antidepressants, right?

I would never take antidepressants. I would rather be depressed and angry and caged like a wild beast for the rest of my life rather than take antidepressants. It's a personal thing, but also, they seem to be enslaving our society. What of the ancestors before us who felt sad? Did they take antidepressants?

The main problem with antidepressants as I see it as it attacks the symptoms rather than the problem. As a society as a whole we do this. Why not look deeper? Why are you depressed? Rarely is this natural, nature never meant for human beings to be depressed. Depression is a sign that something's very wrong in your environment. A natural human emotion trying to tell you that you're lacking something essential for mental well being. Antidepressants work in this sense; they make you feel that all's well, this lacking feeling disappears. The only thing that remains is the inital lacking element of life that caused depression in the first place, so it's best to just hide behind them for a lifetime, or else the depression will come back just like it never left.

Antidepressants cloud your  :3rd_eye:. Relax, open up, realize the problem, and live life as it should be lived. Life is too short to waste attacking symptoms; fix the source of the problem and be free of wasted years of frustration.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offlinecoop
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Ravus]
    #2545523 - 04/10/04 01:32 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Well, now see I have to comment on this response.  I, too, felt as you do about anti-depressants a while back.  Like, it's some sort of "easy way out" of dealing with problems.  However, there are some other purposes for using these drugs other than just to make our days seem brighter.

I have been taking 100mg of Zoloft for the past, oh 6 months or so, and I couldn't be happier.  I take it because I suffer from social anxiety disorder.  Meaning, I feel uncomfortable being around people I don't know, etc.  I even had a problem going to the grocery by myself some times....I felt like everyone was looking at me, etc.  I'll admit, too, I'm a good looking guy so you if you knew me you'd probably be saying, "why the fuck do you feel like people are looking at you in a negative light?"  I can't explain it, but I do and every since I have been on Zoloft I feel like I can be my true self in front of people and not give a damn what they think.  And that's awesome because I'm fucking crazy :wink:

Seriously though, they do serve a purpose in cases like my own, but I do agree they are wrong when prescribed for kids these days dealing with the issues of growing up.  Fuck that...I'm 27, I need to be on these.  I had to give up doing things like ecstasy, but that is only a good thing.  Ok, that's all I had to say :wink:


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: coop]
    #2545544 - 04/10/04 01:37 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, they may help in your cases, but do you know why you feel so anxious to be out in public? Nothing happens without a reason. Have you tried to look inside and think why you feel so self-conscious?

It's easy to put everything into disorders, but unless these disorders are genetic, it's because of either a way of thinking or a past experience. Even many genetic ones can be overcome without anti-psychotics and anti-depressants. Have you ever seen within yourself on mushrooms and realized why you are like this, or just accepted it as an inevitability of life?

If so, my only recommendation would be not to go down without a fight. Anxiety is a temporary natural feeling, not a way of life. There are ways to fight it without curing just the symptom of anxiety; however, the way for you to fight it must be decided by you.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Ravus]
    #2545570 - 04/10/04 01:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I would rather be caged like a wild beast for the rest of my life...

Just go down to your local police station with a pound of cannabis...  :spliff:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Ravus]
    #2546346 - 04/10/04 12:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I was thinking the same thing, Swami :lol:

The main problem with antidepressants as I see it as it attacks the symptoms rather than the problem.
While external factors play some role in mental health, it is predominantly governed by chemical imbalance.  Ravus, you might consider doing some reading on brain chemistry.  The meds are designed to correct the imbalance by promoting the production of seratonin.  CosmicComedian had a great example (although I believe anxiety is usually a symptom of low dopamine levels).

I do agree that more people use anti-deps than need to.  But for those that do not seek treatment, they need to be aware that mental health issues are progressive.  Simple anxiety has the potential to lead to paranoia, which can lead to symptoms of schizophrenia.

Antidepressants work in this sense; they make you feel that all's well...
Seratonin (along with other naturally occuring chems) does this.

...nature never meant for human beings to be depressed.
Depression is a part of health (or lack there of).  Just like any other ailments in life, it happens.  Seems totally natural to me.

Antidepressants cloud your [mind].
Lack of seratonin (or any other imbalance) does this.  If the meds help put the patient in a better, healthier mood, he'll be more productive and focused.  He'll have an easier time enjoying life.  Clouding the mind...one thing I've noticed when I feel the threshold of depression is how it affects my perspective.  Of course I show the typical negative outlook, but at the same time, I am more introspective and actually feel as if I gain some sort of insights.

Brain chemistry has a strong impact on perspective.  In case it wasn't obvious, it's one of my favorite topics  :smirk:


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Offlinenecronomicon
journeyman

Registered: 12/22/03
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Ravus]
    #2546451 - 04/10/04 01:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think a lot of people are depressed cause they think they need more than they actually need. Advertising fucks with my head, they try to hypnotize you to think you need something to be happy.

I would never touch anti-depressants because I don't like putting synthetic things in my body...I've used St. Johns wart before though, only in the winter cause I do get depressed when its freezing out and I can't go out in nature without freezing my ass off.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Viaggio]
    #2546641 - 04/10/04 02:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicComedian had a great example (although I believe anxiety is usually a symptom of low dopamine levels).





Erm... I am CosmicComedian. Unless there's another CosmicComedian who stole my IRC name and the subname under Ravus, in which case I want to meet him as I didn't know there was one.

Yes, in some cases medication is required, but as a whole antidepressants are prescribed way more than they should be. And though neurochemistry plays a part, what did the people do before antidepressants? It's a true question, if anyone knows they should post it. My speculation would say many lived a much harsher life in general, so feeling a bit dull and depressed was nothing.

"...nature never meant for human beings to be depressed.
Depression is a part of health (or lack there of). Just like any other ailments in life, it happens. Seems totally natural to me."

I clarified this by saying that depression occurs when something's wrong with our environment, such as people will become depressed during winter because it's cold and miserable to go out. However, more and more it seems people are being depressed permanently, and they believe they can't cure it naturally.

It is a natural temporary emotion, just not a state of being that is cured by medication. Unless evolution's a cruel bastard who fucked up somewhere along the line, long-term depression is counterproductive to the individual's survival, and the human race's survival.

Maybe I think too much, but when the neurochemistry is off so often as it is in today's society, making so many people constantly depressed, is it saying something about this society? Or have so many human beings always been messed up neurologically? (In which case I pity the human race, as it seems I can't walk down the street without meeting someone on antidepressants.)

Quote:

Antidepressant drugs experienced an 18 percent sales growth in 2000, to $13.4 billion which accounted for 4.2 percent of all global pharmaceutical sales. North America was the dominant user of these drugs, accounting for 74.6 percent of sales with a 19 percent growth rate. Interestingly enough, in Europe, sales fell by 1 percent, while the Africa/Asia/Australia region and Latin America, accounted for only 4.5 percent and 2.4 percent sales growth, respectively. Prozac was the leading product in the class with a market share of 21.5 percent.

With such disparities among drug sales globally, the question begs to be asked if Americans suffer from a larger variety of health issues, is there a problem with over-medication? With 74.6% of all antidepressant drugs being sold in North America, one must ask if there are truly health related issues that account for the difference, or are the numbers due to a "Quick fix" drug culture. Chiropractic has been the one profession in the health care arena that has consistently touted a drug free approach as an alternative to medication.




http://www.atlaschiro.com/newsletters/news26.htm

I would agree with antidepressants if only the people who truely needed them took them; realistically, this is not the case, and it seems the richer and better off the society, the more people on antidepressants. The better off they are, the more they need to not feel sad. Good logic, eh?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Ravus]
    #2546974 - 04/10/04 08:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Erm... I am CosmicComedian. Unless there's another CosmicComedian who stole my IRC name and the subname under Ravus, in which case I want to meet him as I didn't know there was one.



Oops, I meant coop.

...what did the people do before antidepressants? It's a true question, if anyone knows they should post it.
Therapists would try and trace the depression back to a childhood trauma, and address it from there.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Ravus]
    #2548243 - 04/11/04 08:50 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The animal out in the wild is content. The animal in the zoo becomes depressed.

We are continuing in a direction whic is leading us further away from our nateral state. You don't have to work and you can survive, you can sit around and watch TV, be entertained 24/7, have gadgets to do chores for you, travel 100 miles in your car. Plenty of new shiney objects to own, who could want more?


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get it all together get like birds of a feather


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Offlinenecronomicon
journeyman

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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #2548249 - 04/11/04 08:55 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

ya, we all are living in captivity to some extent...a controlled environment that is not out natural one. We may be the thinkers and the most advanced species alive but we still have a hard time adapting to things without showing some problems.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #2548265 - 04/11/04 09:08 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Swami like shiny objects!  :yesnod:

A documentary on baboons living off of human garbage dumps showed that their most highly prized possessions were mirrors.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTantalus
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Swami]
    #2548285 - 04/11/04 09:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Swami like shiny objects!  :yesnod:

A documentary on baboons living off of human garbage dumps showed that their most highly prized possessions were mirrors.




Because they could see themselves or just that they were shiny?  Like little shards of mirror or a full one that would give the baboons a first look at themselves?


--------------------
"A nation's hope of lasting peace cannot be firmly based upon any race in armaments but rather upon just relations and honest understanding with all other nations...

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed... The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. We pay for a single fighter with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people..."

President Dwight Eisenhower, 1953


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Tantalus]
    #2548299 - 04/11/04 09:34 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Both, but mainly because they liked to admire themselves. The pieces were usually small fragments of a few inches across.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Swami]
    #2548797 - 04/11/04 04:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I hear it's only us and some of dem apes that recognise their own reflection


--------------------
get it all together get like birds of a feather


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Ravus]
    #2548914 - 04/11/04 06:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

As has been said, some people have a true chemical imbalance that requires medication to be corrected.  Others are sad or depressed or anxious because of past experiences. 

It would be politically incorrect to tell the second category to get off their asses and get help and move on with their lives.  Instead, it's much more understanding to give them drugs and allow them to continue to be riddled with the same psychological problems that have plagued them to date. 

But, hey!  It's not my business, and I still have empathy for someone who can't get off his ass or get help for what causes the problems in the first place.  If someone needs to take meds for depression and the like, that's his/her decision to make.

I have been on medication for different things at various times in my life, but ultimately I had to kick my own ass and tackle the anxieties on my own and get off the stupid meds, which enable one to depend on them.  I've even been told "you will never be able to go off these meds or you will get worse".  Bullshit! 

A question I have is why are doctors so ready to prescribe meds rather than suggest treatment for what causes the anxieties in the first place? 

I know I sound unsympathetic in this post, and I don't really meant to.  It's just that I'm still a little pissed off at the people who wanted me to take meds and even used fear as a factor in trying to get me to comply. 

Well, I get the last laugh.  I get to run around society completely untreated and have a really good time talking to people and experiencing life and figuring things out without being lethargic and drugged out. 

Anyone ever think that maybe government wants us to be drugged out and unquestioning?  :oogle: :eyemouth:

Excuse the attack of paranoia there at the end.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinerunnerup
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Ravus]
    #2549001 - 04/11/04 07:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Its the emo music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! go bright eyes!


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Frog]
    #2550057 - 04/12/04 03:55 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm on adderral xr and effexor, and i don't think they make me the least bit unquestioning. I think that whole 'antidepressants kill your emotions' deal IS paranoia.

I have noticed however, that when i took the larger dose at the wrong time, there'd be periods where i just spaced out. Time did'nt seemed to matter and nothing motivated me. I could sit on the couch all day and not care. Did'nt blunt my emotions. If somebody stepped on my toes, i would've gotten pissed, whether they meant to do it or not.

This seems to work against society rather than for it. Society would rather have motivated disciplined conformists, who eat, sleep and dream 'their' propaganda.

All in all, i think that psychiatry is a confused domain. Nobody really knows exactly what their doing. The DSM-IV is a mess; there are those that obviously have a problem (such as myself.) and there are those who just seem to be going through a sucky time in their lives, but act just like a person who 'obviously' have a problem. Once more, there seems to be those who obviously have a problem, yet have no experiences behind those problems, causing a tainted view of the world.

Psychiatry is going to have to change its idea about what, exactly, is a problem and what is'nt. As for me, I take the middle road and think there should'nt be any type of strict diagnostic tool in the sense of individual seperate pathologies. They should all mesh into one big pool of interacting phenomina, where nobody is diagnosed with a particular 'disease', but where  personality traits are contrasted against the measuring stick of your quality of life.

If we're going to start working with the mind, we have to - to some extent - become as flexible as it is. I don't think it'll ever be worked out as formally as they want it.

:headbang: <-----I like this guy, he's bitchin'.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: David_Scape]
    #2550135 - 04/12/04 04:20 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

David_Scape said:
I'm on adderral xr and effexor, and i don't think they make me the least bit unquestioning. I think that whole 'antidepressants kill your emotions' deal IS paranoia.




First, I have to say this:

I was on Adderall for a number of years.  I totally believed that I needed it.  I was on a forum previous to this one that was related to ADHD and I used to argue with people there about why I needed to take it, while they were trying to convince me I shouldn't.  They would think it funny that I am now against taking meds for ADHD.

Quote:

I have noticed however, that when i took the larger dose at the wrong time, there'd be periods where i just spaced out. Time did'nt seemed to matter and nothing motivated me. I could sit on the couch all day and not care. Did'nt blunt my emotions. If somebody stepped on my toes, i would've gotten pissed, whether they meant to do it or not.




It was the resperdal that caused me to feel unmotivated.  The Adderall just helped me focus better. 

Here is what I found, about drugs, and me:

I am still the same ADDer, on drugs.  I still forget things, lose things, etc.  It's only in drafting documents that I find I like taking Adderall because the Adderall helps block out background noise.  Ear plugs work just as well.

Since I went off the Adderall, people have told me, without knowing I was on Adderall and had gone off it, that I am more charming, etc.  (Sorry, have to sound like a braggart to get my thoughts on it across.)

I was told that I used to be serious and stressed.  Now, I'm charming.  Even in court, I notice I say whatever I want to the judge, and get away with it, whereas before, I was totally focused on trying to be a lawyer. 

I believe, in my case, that Adderall changed my personality.  Resperdal also changed my personality, in that I was less motivated to do anything.

Now, who does it help, if society puts us on medication?  Us, or them?  In my case, it didn't help me.  It made me more like them.  Why do "they" want us to be more like "them"?  I kind of wish I could go back to that old forum and ask questions, but I pissed them off, there.  :grin:

Quote:

All in all, i think that psychiatry is a confused domain. Nobody really knows exactly what their doing. The DSM-IV is a mess; there are those that obviously have a problem (such as myself.) and there are those who just seem to be going through a sucky time in their lives, but act just like a person who 'obviously' have a problem. Once more, there seems to be those who obviously have a problem, yet have no experiences behind those problems, causing a tainted view of the world.




Yes, psychiatry is confused.  They call a gift like ADHD a "disorder" and a "deficit".  What they don't see is the genius behind it.  If we weren't classified as disordered, how much would we go on to achieve?  How many of us are limiting ourselves because of the classification given us?  A classification that is very limiting.  It doesn't explain what's good about ADHD, only what's bad.

What if all of us went off meds?  Who wants you on meds in the first place?  Are you not conforming?  Are you acting in ways that are not common to the general public, therefore you need to be medicated? 

The reason I went off Resperdal is because of how lethargic it made me feel.  I am not any more crazy than I was before.  I went off Adderall because I ran out of money.  At first, I was a little anxious, thinking that not being on Adderall would interrupt my practice, but now, after not being on it for quite some time, I like me better, and I will never go on it again.

This is just me saying this for me.  I would never tell any of you to go off meds, if you are on meds.  You have to do what is right for you.  These are just my thoughts on the subject.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Frog]
    #2550196 - 04/12/04 04:54 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, i don't know anything about resperdal, so i'll avoid saying anything about that. And paragraphs two and three in my last post we're referenced towards Effexor, not Adderal.

For the record, i don't think i have ADD. If i do, i don't have ADHD.
But as for having a 'problem', I most definitely have one. Not trying to avoid responsibility for myself, but am merely saying that most people would (and have) consider my pattern of behavior and current life direction unhealthy.

It's interesting that you've noted a 'charming' effect when comming off adderal. I've noticed the same thing, except the goofy butt-nuggets i hang out with would'nt complement me. They're cool though.


Am I not conforming? No, don't think i am. And i don't think most people are. If a person doesn't want to take meds, is'nt part of some program, and has a relatively sound mind, that person probably won't be taking meds.

You either are in want of it, indifferent to it, or you hate it(which people just love expressing for some odd reason.).


I'm now on the full dose of effexor, and my emotions are fine. I'm able to express myself better with effexor and adder. I know you were'nt telling me to get off meds, but they're helping me so far.

There is a drawback however,(if i can draw this post out a tad more), I can see myself in the future - when weening of effexxor - having the 'old feelings' come back. I'm expecting this to happen to a certain extent. With Adderal, i don't expect this happen at all. Once i'm off it, i'll just have less endurance concentration wise. Thanks for letting me share there.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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InvisibleEmmie420
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Registered: 01/12/04
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Re: Antidepressants [Re: Ravus]
    #2552516 - 04/13/04 12:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

People who say they would never take antidepressants must not have ever been in a situation where they really, really needed them. Are antidepressants overprescribed? Yes. Do they solve all your problems for you? No. BUT, what antidepressants do is bring you to a place where you are capable of functioning enough that you can start to solve your problems through therapy, changing your behavior, etc. In the worst depths of depression it is pretty near impossible to take action in your life. In my experience with depression, my mind simply refused to let me think clearly, and repeated over and over thoughts of emptiness, sadness, and suicide. Being on medication has allowed me to have control over my mind, and because of that I have been able to take steps to improve my life. I couldn't do it before I was on medication. I don't intend to be on medication forever, but I did need it to get my life back on track. Please don't judge people on medication as being weak; depression is a legitimate medical illness that often has as much to do with brain chemistry as it does with the situation a person is in, and suggesting that one shouldn't take antidepressants is like saying a diabetic shouldn't take his insulin.
Thanks reading my rant, hope I didn't get too worked up.


--------------------
Thrown like a star in my vast sleep, I open my eyes to take a peep, to find that I was by the sea, gazing with tranquillity. 'Twas then when the Hurdy Gurdy Man came singing songs of love...


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