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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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Backburg clone's positive attributes
    #11740942 -

I'm wondering about people's experience with the backburg clone and its positive attributes. It seems that people would prefer a "true" pachanoi to the PC, but I don't really see any reason why except that it isn't the PC. I read on an outside site the the PC is "much faster growing, more cold tolerant, more rot resistant and more water tolerant" than other more "authentic" cultivars of T. pachanoi from Peru. Whats the deal? Is there something bad about the PC/backburg clone?


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PC's LAGM 2021 (TOC & TWC)
P. natalensis Growlog 2021
Pans for PC Fall 2021 Growlog

“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear


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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: PitcherCrab]
    #11740963 -

Well, The 'PC/Backberg' clones (which are distributed 95% of the time) have a lower alkaloidal content than the true peruvian clones, probably around 60% of the alkaloidal content which the shamans used these cacti for... The backberg clone also tends to be slightly more hardy, but still, true pachanois are still way easy to care for. I also like the authentic strains more because they are more rare, and people have always liked to have things which are rarer. They are unique. But the PC clone is too widespread, good to have though, but I'd rather always have the authentic strains.

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: nitelife]
    #11741271 -

What are the characteristics that distinguish the "true" pachanoi from the PC/Backberg clones?

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: wisp]
    #11741438 -

The most noticeable feature, The space between aeroles is greater than what backberg originally described as a pachanoi. (thus, this is not the original plant.. and has a terribly deceptive name now!  which is why we just call it the PC instead) it also doesn't have a clear collection point from the wild... which possibly means it popped up in cultivation in north america.


The alkaloid content is lacking slightly, but it is the hardiest active cactus there is.  I've heard atleast one report of them freezing solid over winter only to thaw out and continuing growing come spring.  Try doing that with a bridgesii  :wink:

Edited by HarveyWalbanger (12/30/09 03:34 AM)

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #11741556 -

Don't forget that the flowers on the PC pachanoi have white woolly flowers, instead of the brown/black woolly flowers of the Peruvian pachanoi


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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: Cactusdan]
    #11741621 -

How about spination? Are the spines longer on the "true" form?

Quote:
Don't forget that the flowers on the PC pachanoi have white woolly flowers, instead of the brown/black woolly flowers of the Peruvian pachanoi


Really? I have what I would have thought was the Backberg variety, but it has just flowered, and the wool was dark brown. Another formed a bud which never matured and it has the same colour wool. I could post pics if needed.

Sorry to hijack this thread somewhat PitcherCrab...

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: wisp]
    #11741783 -

Let's see pics!

Also are you in the states?

Backberg tends to be more common state side.


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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: wisp]
    #11741946 -

tripsis said:
How about spination? Are the spines longer on the "true" form?



yes.
The 'true' pachanoi has more mescaline and its own signature blend of alkaloids. Us cacti nerds tend to go after it because its rare to come by,(here in the states anyway) and is an attractive specimen.

Edited by lolbience (12/30/09 11:03 AM)

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: lolbience]
    #11742004 -

Is this lil guy a backburg too?


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PC's LAGM 2021 (TOC & TWC)
P. natalensis Growlog 2021
Pans for PC Fall 2021 Growlog

“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear


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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: PitcherCrab]
    #11742052 -

Here's a site that describes the two

http://largelyaccurateinformationmedia.com/pedro/pedro.html


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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: Cactusdan]
    #11742170 -

i like the pach/backberg clone. it makes an excellent graft stock.


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: ferrel_human]
    #11742368 -

my backberg clone is the slowest growing trichocereus I own so far, minus the grandiflorus hybrids I have which I don't really consider them part of my trichocereus for some reason.


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Dr :ronpaul: says to stop trying to treat the side-effects of big government and focus on the core issues. End the Federal Reserve/audit the gold reserves at Fort Knox, abolish the IRS, end all wars and occupancies, stop the building of an empire that will inevitably fail, and cut all unconstitutional federal programs. Put the power back in the peoples' hands by ending this nanny-state.

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: PitcherCrab]
    #11743112 -

Looks like a PC pachanoi too me pitchercrab :yesnod:

@highdroponics: Really?

They are among my fastest here.

I think my two large PC's put on close to 1.5-2 feet of growth this summer.


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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: Cactusdan]
    #11743179 -

yeah my backberg has grown like 4 inches in two years. All of my other trichocereus have grown a minimum of 6 inches per year.


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Dr :ronpaul: says to stop trying to treat the side-effects of big government and focus on the core issues. End the Federal Reserve/audit the gold reserves at Fort Knox, abolish the IRS, end all wars and occupancies, stop the building of an empire that will inevitably fail, and cut all unconstitutional federal programs. Put the power back in the peoples' hands by ending this nanny-state.

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: highdroponics]
    #11743192 -

How strange.

Do you give it fertilizer at all?

What size pot is it in?

I know I planted two backbergs in straight FL sand(which is practically devoid of nutrients :P) and they have done hideously, but are still alive.


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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: Cactusdan]
    #11743205 -

I don't give it any different conditions than any other trichocereus in my garden, it just doesn't grow.

And I have a good feeling it will be extremely potent because of how slow its growing.


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Dr :ronpaul: says to stop trying to treat the side-effects of big government and focus on the core issues. End the Federal Reserve/audit the gold reserves at Fort Knox, abolish the IRS, end all wars and occupancies, stop the building of an empire that will inevitably fail, and cut all unconstitutional federal programs. Put the power back in the peoples' hands by ending this nanny-state.

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: highdroponics]
    #11743234 -

Hehe, that is a possibility.

So odd it doesn't grow well though.

Come spring/summer, try fertilizing the hell out of it and see if it picks up :yesnod:


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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: Cactusdan]
    #11743750 -

Cactusdan said:
Let's see pics!

Also are you in the states?

Backberg tends to be more common state side.


No, Australia. I know Backberg is common here though. I'll snap some pics today if I get around to it, both of my larger ones that have flowered and some cuts which look pretty diffeent which I've received in trades.

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: Cactusdan]
    #11743912 -

Okay, got around to it in no time. :lol:

What I reckon is Backberg, but has dark wool:





Other cuts:







"Short-spined peruvianus", which I've read is the "true"pachanoi:


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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: highdroponics]
    #11743914 -

do you only have one?  Could just be a stalled cutting.

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: wisp]
    #11744201 -

I don't think your dark wool is a backberg.  The V-notches aren't charecteristic of the PC, and the spines are usually in a 5-7 pronged star cluster.. (the spination changes, but it should be observable somewhere on the plant.  I'm not seeing it)

I do however believe that the 4th plant in your other cuts section might be a backberg.


Edit:  some shots of mine for comparison.  These cuttings are younger than yours so some variance is expected.
 

Edited by HarveyWalbanger (12/30/09 06:16 PM)

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: wisp]
    #11744270 -

The first one is certainly not a Backberg pachanoi.

The second two resemble backbergs though, was the first picture misplaced?



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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: wisp]
    #11744489 -

That first one is not a backberg.

Your 2 last ones before your 'short spined' (last one) look like backberg clones.

I hope all those webs are not mites.


FH

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: felixhigh]
    #11744494 -

I dun think they are, i saw a nice brown spider hanging out on one of them.


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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: Cactusdan]
    #11744685 -

The first pic is of a different plant to the next two. I have four large pachanoi which are all very similar, although the one shown flowering looks a little different and is much smaller.

So if the first is not a Backberg, what is it? what makes the second two pics (the flowering one) a Backberg?

Any idea what pics 4 and 5 are?

No, the webs are not from mites. They are brown/black house spiders and love making webs on the spines of my cacti.

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: wisp]
    #11744992 -

putting common names to mystery plants is kind of irresponsible, and how confusion happens in the first place.  I dunno if i want to play this game anymore.. :p

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Re: Backburg clone's positive attributes [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #11745050 -

The two you have flowering are backberg due to the abundance of light wool.

The first one looks like a "short spine peruvianus" as many refer to it, although MS Smith says it is a pachanoi.

I tend to agree with him on these lines as I feel it resembles south american pachanois.

I would say four and five are different hybrids of trichocereus, very prevalent in Australia these days, but wouldnt go as far as to give them a species name, this is where MS and I disagree frequently.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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