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Offlinechemkid
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Muslim Radicalism
    #1154496 - 12/19/02 10:10 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

First off I am a Christian and have no hatred for Muslims. Christian hands are not clean from bloodshed (i.e. the Crusades) however, for the most part Christians (at least as a political movement) have outgrown the violence.

I think Muslims today are where the Christians were then.

The Muslim religion is peaceful in nature but unfortunately is being badly misrepresented by the idiots of today.

In spite of this, doesn't it strike anyone as odd that most all of the conflicts in todays world are Muslim related. Every Muslim "claims" they want peace yet most of the bloodshed is on the hands of Muslims.

All these different countries have Muslim separatists gunning to make their own country. This is so ridiculous. Being a different religion is no cause to kill countrymen for the sake of owning real estate. (The Palestinian cause is all together different because they feel they have been robbed of their land) I am talking about fundamentalists that all of a sudden want their own country.

Imagine if in America all the Mexicans, Irish, catholics, Jews, blacks whatever all of a sudden wanted to carve the country up to have their own.

It is noble to fight for fair and equitable treatment....it is ignorant to fight and kill innocent people for land (that doesn't even necessarily belong to them).


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: chemkid]
    #1154741 - 12/19/02 11:21 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

All these different countries have Muslim separatists gunning to make their own country. This is so ridiculous. Being a different religion is no cause to kill countrymen for the sake of owning real estate. (The Palestinian cause is all together different because they feel they have been robbed of their land) I am talking about fundamentalists that all of a sudden want their own country.



What conflicts do you speak of?


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: Skikid16]
    #1156404 - 12/19/02 10:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The west is the mirror upon which the extremists reflect their hatreds onto.
We cannot seperate ourselves from the cause of these problems.
The muslim religion is young, I agree, and in a place similart to that christianity was in many years ago. However, in the modern world it will change and develop much quicker. We can play a part in how it develops. If we continue our economic terrorism, our imperialism and our tacit support of the expansion of Israel, we will create a monster that could destroy us.




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Always Smi2le


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: GazzBut]
    #1157047 - 12/20/02 06:04 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"The muslim religion is young."

I don't think it's any younger than Christianity...

I think the current violence associated with the muslim religion is not because it hasn't progressed enough, but because the countries where it is popular are economically much less advanced than the countries where christianity is popular. Poverty breeds desperation and violence.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: Phluck]
    #1157186 - 12/20/02 07:16 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I think the muslim issue is a red-herring really. Saudi Arabia are muslim and they've been happy enough being a US client for decades. Think it's more to do with concrete realities like Israel's behaviour in Palestine.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: Phluck]
    #1157270 - 12/20/02 07:51 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Aren't muslems supposed to be poor?

I mean they bitch about western materialism, and rave about how they have no desire for material possessions. Looks to me like they're poor because they want to be.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: Skikid16]
    #1157406 - 12/20/02 08:46 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)


What conflicts do you speak of?

There are radical muslim seperatist movements and agitations in:

1. Chechnya
2. Indonesia
3. China
4. Kashmir(India)
5. Phillipines

And those are the ones off of the top of my head in five seconds. I'm sure there
are a lot more.

RandalFlagg


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: Phluck]
    #1157460 - 12/20/02 09:28 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

If you read your history, you'd know that Islam has only been around for a little more than half as long as Christianity.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1157604 - 12/20/02 10:28 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

There are radical muslim seperatist movements and agitations in:

Think you have to look deeper into each case before going with the idea that it's a big muslim movement. There was as just as much violence between russia and the chechnya muslims in 1810. The problem now is a lot more to do with the oil pipeline running through chechnya that the russians want control of rather than a worldwide muslim movement.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: Xlea321]
    #1158001 - 12/20/02 01:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)


There are radical muslim seperatist movements and agitations in:


Think you have to look deeper into each case before going with the idea that it's a big muslim movement. There was as just as much violence between russia and the chechnya muslims in 1810. The problem now is a lot more to do with the oil pipeline running through chechnya that the russians want control of rather than a worldwide muslim movement.

I wasn't really going to get into all of the reasons of why certain muslims in
certain places are causing trouble. I wouldn't go so far to say that there is a
coordinated "worldwide" radical muslim movement(although Bin Laden certainly
likes that idea). But, it does seem as if radical Muslims are more prevalent and
more violent than other religious extremists.


RandalFlagg


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1158386 - 12/20/02 04:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The current state of the Islamic ummah [world community of Muslims] is in very poor shape, and the Muslim world did not adjust well to the quick modernization of the world. About a century ago the last Islamic empire collapsed [the Ottoman], followed by the creation of the state of Israel. This happed in a period of only a few decades. With the injustice of Israel's creation, the total colonization [and installed secular regimes] of the Muslim world, the Muslim world has not been able to recover quickly, and as a result fundamentalism of Islam began to spread; a kneejerk reaction to modernization (which includes an immoralizing force). With the exception of the Crusades; where the Muslims were forced to fight back against the invading Christians, the Muslim world has lived rather peacefully until today. The unconditional support of Israel, which is lobbied by the fundamentalist Christian movement, has also angered many Muslims. In Kashmir, the Muslims there face the tyranny of India. In Chechnya, the Muslims there are forced to live under the rule of Russia, whose only interest in Chechnya is oil. I consider this blatant oppression; and no Christian people face this kind treatment today. If they did, you can bet your Frogs and Chickens that you would have Christian paramilitary groups bombing a convoy filled with oppressing soldiers in the name of Jesus Christ. As of recently Christian rulers tried to commit genocide on the Muslims in the Balkans. I am tired of everyone trying to make Islam look like a violent, transgressing religion. Islam itself [slam = Salaam (peace)] is related to the Arabic word for peace. Given the nature of Islam's history: considering Muslims were attacked by Meccan militaries, there are also verses in the Qur'an (which were revealed during this state of war) which command Muslims to fight back if attacked. Fundamentalists on both sides take these verses way out of context.


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Edited by Zahid (12/20/02 04:53 PM)


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Offlineehud
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Registered: 10/23/01
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: chemkid]
    #1159004 - 12/20/02 09:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Women still dont have equal rights in arab countries. That is a tell tale sign of where the musslim world is today.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: ehud]
    #1159140 - 12/20/02 10:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Apparantly in Afghanistan post-taliban the situation for women is even worse than it was under the Taliban. All the thugs the americans propped up in power have turned out to be nightmares. As long as they help building the oil pipeline it looks like they can do anything they want thanks to the americans. Business as usual there then.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: Xlea321]
    #1160186 - 12/21/02 12:58 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

****Apparantly in Afghanistan post-taliban the situation for women is even worse than it was under the Taliban.****

Apparantly this is a big steaming pile of BS.....


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: Xlea321]
    #1160552 - 12/21/02 05:02 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

Apparantly in Afghanistan post-taliban the situation for women is even worse than it was under the Taliban. All the thugs the americans propped up in power have turned out to be nightmares. As long as they help building the oil pipeline it looks like they can do anything they want thanks to the americans. Business as usual there then.




You bleeding heart liberals make me laugh. Trying to pin this on America, all we did was try and help. Instead of thanks we get stabbed in the back. I sincerely hope you don't live in America. If you do and you don't like it, just get out plain and simple. Go live with all those peaceful holy war mongers. Maybe you can blow yourself up and take some innocent women and children with you in the name of your god. You truely make me sick.


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Invisiblebivalve
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: TackleBerry]
    #1160658 - 12/21/02 05:46 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"I'm going to assume from the absurd level of blind patriotism that you're being sarcastic." - Rono.



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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: TackleBerry]
    #1160668 - 12/21/02 05:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

Trying to pin this on America, all we did was try and help. Instead of thanks we get stabbed in the back.


Hmmmm, yes imposing sanctions on Iraq is helping, nothing says help like starving children.
In reply to:

You truely make me sick.


You know who makes me sick, Americans that are too blind from patriotism that they can't step back and see two sides from every story. What happened on 9/11 was in no way justifiable, but just because it wasn't justifiable doesn't mean that America was not completely free of blame. This country does good things around the globe, but at the same time tries to throw its weight around a little too much. We act like isolationist who get involved in everything.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: chemkid]
    #1160811 - 12/21/02 07:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

>>>Christian hands are not clean from bloodshed (i.e. the Crusades)

Please don't confuse the Pope and his Roman Church for Christianity. They also slew millions of Bible believing Christians during the inquisitions for refusing to participate in Rome's idolotry.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinezeronio
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1163557 - 12/23/02 12:50 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Good point!
Maybe we shouldn't confuse terrorists for islam too.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Muslim Radicalism [Re: zeronio]
    #1163624 - 12/23/02 03:04 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

who does this?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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