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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11238873 -

You're presuming people only drink to escape and not drink to suppliment.

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: Fraggin]
    #11238907 -

Death by supplementation? OK...


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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11238979 -

Death is inevitable.

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: Fraggin]
    #11239017 -

Your point? Is self-destruction inevitable?


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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: Fraggin]
    #11239032 -

Fraggin said:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
check out the guys he learned from.


What exactly did he learn? He died fairly young from alcoholism.


Maybe he learned to enjoy his alcoholism.



My point. Maybe he liked drinking, knew he would inevitabley die, and didn't really care that he was speeding it up with self-destructive behaviour. It doesn't mean he learned any more or any less or that the goal of what he learned was to live as long as possible.

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11239054 -

Noteworthy said:
Alan Watts trully is amazing and it confused me when I started listening to his lectures on youtube. Why had I not heard him before?


I know, right?  I just recently started listening to his stuff, and it's so amazingly lucid.

And though I have OC on ignore, I'm sure he's ranting about Watts struggling with alcoholism, as though having some sort of spiritual orientation in your life is supposed to make all your problems go away.  The fact is he was a philosopher, not a guru.  And a great one at that.


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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: Silversoul]
    #11239096 -

Quote:
And though I have OC on ignore, I'm sure he's ranting about Watts struggling with alcoholism, as though having some sort of spiritual orientation in your life is supposed to make all your problems go away.  The fact is he was a philosopher, not a guru.


I have no one on ignore. That is a big difference between us. One can learn from anyone.

If one's advanced philosophy does not make one happier nor better able to deal with life's problems, then it is merely mental masturbation and nothing more.


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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11239177 -

Alan Watts does have some interesting points in his lectures regardless. His ideas are fascinating to me. And yes, his alcoholism doesn't impress me, but i have to give him a lot of credit for his work.

:respect:

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11239184 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
If one's advanced philosophy does not make one happier nor better able to deal with life's problems, then it is merely mental masturbation and nothing more.


Are you basing this on your own definition of philosophy?

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: Fraggin]
    #11239282 -

How would you describe an outlook on life that has no utilitarian value or let's one remain unchanged? Certainly cannot be considered a superior philosophy, now can it?

The excuse-making for Watts' heavy drinking sounds much to me like 'The Secret' advocates excuse-making for why it cannot stand up to scrutiny.

Do I like Watt's books? Sure, they are great mind candy, but then so is Tolkein.


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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11239340 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
How would you describe an outlook on life that has no utilitarian value or let's one remain unchanged?
Quote:
I would describe it as an outlook that is not being looked upon or a philosophy that is not being followed. For every action, there is a reaction. (equal and opposite some say)

Quote:
Certainly cannot be considered a superior philosophy, now can it?



Qualifying prnoun, superior. Superior to no philosophy, certainly.

Quote:
The excuse-making for Watts' heavy drinking sounds much to me like 'The Secret' advocates excuse-making for why it cannot stand up to scrutiny.



So the man drank. Big Deal. What is philosophy's stance on fried foods?

Quote:
Do I like Watt's books? Sure, they are great mind candy, but then so is Tolkein.




There's a lot of good Philosophy in Tokein's books if you can read between the lines and take it with a grain of salt.

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11239356 -

Quote:
If one's advanced philosophy does not make one happier nor better able to deal with life's problems, then it is merely mental masturbation and nothing more.


Perhaps understanding the thing and managing ones place in it aren't necessarily the same.
I don't see how his alcoholism takes away the validity of his philosophy.

Sorry but it just sounds like you say that his philosophy holds no real value. Yet there are plenty of valuable insights to be found with every turn of the page. You turn him into an philosophic acoholic telling nonsense - a bit unfair.

Besides a philosophy can be so profound that no-one can really fully live up to it. That doesn't invalidate it, does it?

Edited by Ahimsa (10/13/09 01:01 PM)

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11239773 -

I agree with Ahimsa. Just because a philosopher does not fully live up to his own philosophic ideals, that does not negate those ideals.

Just as a painter can still create a beautiful peace of artwork, and destroy his own body with drugs and alcohol....does not make his painting any less beautiful. Watts has a message that he wanted to communicate with all of us, in the hopes that somebody hearing it would be able to draw from it and improve their own life.

Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:

One can learn from anyone.


That includes an alcoholic philosopher.

Everyone has their vices.....guru's probably have them too, they just hide them better then most people. No matter how spiritual, philosophical, enlightened you think you might be....you are still a creature of flesh and blood and physically connected to the outside world. This creates a set of difficulties that may never be overcome. But through our understanding of our relationship to this world, we can learn to accept and move beyond those difficulties.


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Word to your mom.

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11239831 -

Quote:
Besides a philosophy can be so profound that no-one can really fully live up to it. That doesn't invalidate it, does it?


Not living up to it certainly does not validate it.


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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11239850 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Besides a philosophy can be so profound that no-one can really fully live up to it. That doesn't invalidate it, does it?


Not living up to it certainly does not validate it.


Does Watt's Alcoholism invalidate his philosophy?

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11239862 -

I could tell my child, "Brush your teeth every day, its healthy and responsible."

But I don't brush my teeth every day....I only do it 4 times a week.

That doesn't mean I should not give my child sound advice so that he may make better choices then I do.


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Word to your mom.

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #11239925 -

Quote:
I could tell my child, "Brush your teeth every day, its healthy and responsible."

But I don't brush my teeth every day....I only do it 4 times a week.


If your child finds you out he will be even less likely to brush every day.

As I repeatedly point out here, Christians believe they have a superior philosophy to atheists/agnostics and are more moral people, yet large-scale social studies show no moral superiority whatsoever.

So I ask what good is a philosophy that shows no difference? Because the words give one a fleeting rush and then everything returns to the statuus quo?


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (10/13/09 02:52 PM)

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11239961 -

People are going to do what they choose regardless.

The difference between religion and philosophy is that religion commands you to act in a certain manner, whereas philosophy merely asks that you question your current state of being.

That is all....just QUESTION. It does not matter if you abide by the philosophical tenants. The mere act of questioning is what opens your mind to the possibility of change. It is still up to you, personally...as an individual, who much ACTION you wish to pursue.

Philosophy speaks nothing of action. Only of questioning and reasoning.


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Word to your mom.

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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: Fraggin]
    #11239972 -

Fraggin said:
Does Watt's Alcoholism invalidate his philosophy?


I can't seem to find anything in his philosophy which says that drinking is bad.  In fact, he was rather straightforward in his memoirs about his drinking, and shunned the very notion that it was something he should feel ashamed of.  I can find no evidence that he was a Puritan, so I don't see his drinking or smoking as in any way contradicting his philosophy.  His philosophy would simply be that the drinker and smoker known as Alan Watts was simply a concept, inseparable from his environment.

Incidentally, Martin Luther King cheated on his wife, so I suppose we can throw out the whole notion of racial equality and civil rights.


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Re: Alan Watts Is The Works! [Re: Silversoul]
    #11239988 -

Quote:
Incidentally, Martin Luther King cheated on his wife, so I suppose we can throw out the whole notion of racial equality and civil rights.


:lol:

I did not know this. But like I said...EVERYONE has a vice. If you throw out someones words on account of their life choices then I believe you are using an "Ad Hominem"....or attacking the person, rather than their argument. :nonono:


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Word to your mom.

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