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 Dogomush
Barbless Aryan
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
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 Re: WHY has life evolved?  [Re: johnnyfive]
#1324724 - 02/21/03 11:00 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hhahahahah I love it
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 Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1324727 - 02/21/03 11:01 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Baby_Hitler: Because it can.
Yup.
If something can persist, it will.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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MushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: johnnyfive]
#1325142 - 02/21/03 03:20 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nice one, I'd agree that the DNA is the software and the organism the hardware. The purpose of life being to replicate the sofware or "information." As with any copying process however, deviations will occur.
On evolution theory: Random, small, advantages mutations don't really work without some type of planning ahead in the process. Take a hummingbird, for example. They are tiny birds that hover and collect food with a long beak and long tongue. If it evolved the ability to hover without the long beak and tongue, it couldn't eat. Likewise, if it developed the beak and tongue, but couldn't hover, it would not be able to get nectar from flowers. This is not to deny the fact that some animals have evolved through minor advantagous mutations, it just means that this idea doesn't hold on 100% of cases. It's a flaw in evolution theory (which is NOT fact, it is theory.) There isn't even any evidence to show where feathers came from in the first place. Simply speculation that they "evolved" from scales.
My opinion on the original post is that life has evolved so that the universe can experience itself. Self-awareness. If we are the universe, and we are self-aware then we are an example of how the universe has evolved self-awareness. Most animals are not self-conscious. Get a cat in front of a mirror, it thinks its looking at another cat. Some monkeys have shown that they can recognise themselves in front of mirrors but other than that we humans are unique in that way (or so we think.) I think that we have evolved to where we are now so that WE can look out at the universe and go "man, look at all this amazing shit. How cool is this place!" (I know thats a bit cosmic but hey, that's where I'm up to so far.)
On people talking about shit like this when we don't really know what we are talking about: Lighten up! This is only an internet forum. The fact that we are open to talk about stuff like this and ask questions just means that we are interested in getting to the truth. Nobody knows all the answers. If you think your opinion will be duly noted, and appropriately disregarded.
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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.
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Baby_Hitler
Magat Stalker
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 28,109
Loc: I'm right behind you, aren't I...
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: MushyMay]
#1325151 - 02/21/03 03:30 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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How do you know what the cat is thinking, and how does knowledge of what mirrors are = "self-awareness"?
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Morality is just aesthetics, meatbags.
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MushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1325161 - 02/21/03 03:54 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Have you ever seen a cat look in the mirror. Obviously I don't know exactly what the cat is thinking but I can gauge from it's reaction and interpret it. My experience is that it treats it's own reflection as if it were another cat. When I do something I know that "I" am doing it. When a lesser evolved animal (eg a cat) does something it is usually instinctual due to a less evolved brain. You know, reptilian brain, mammailian brain etc. While I'm talking of brains, has anyone seen the similarity between the brain of a human and that of a dolphin? Scary. http://www.thedolphinplanet.org/genintel.htm
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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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evolution seems to be the more "novel" thing to do, for those into novelty theory :-D
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Baby_Hitler
Magat Stalker
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 28,109
Loc: I'm right behind you, aren't I...
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: MushyMay]
#1325251 - 02/21/03 04:39 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I still don't see how that illustrates lack of self-awareness.
I've never personally done the cat / mirror experiment. I don't have a cat. I have two dogs. Does it work with dogs? I used to have a parakeet, and a cockatiel(sp). The parakeet was all kissy kissy with it, and the cockatiel was just afraid of it.
Thing is the parakiet the parakeet was kissy kissy with innanimate objects too, and the cockatiel was afraid of everything.
If you got an email from someone claiming to be you from 3 years in the future (and it really was), and you thought it was another person, would that prove anything other than your lack of knowledge of time travel?
I think if the experiment goes on long enough, they eventually accept it as an inanimate object.
Though I did know of a dog that would bark at his own echo every freakin' night. 
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Morality is just aesthetics, meatbags.
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Baby_Hitler
Magat Stalker
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 28,109
Loc: I'm right behind you, aren't I...
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Strumpling]
#1325255 - 02/21/03 04:41 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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IDK, the "big invisible old man in the sky" theory is rather quaint.
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Morality is just aesthetics, meatbags.
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Dogomush
Barbless Aryan
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: MushyMay]
#1325500 - 02/21/03 07:45 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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On evolution theory: Random, small, advantages mutations don't really work without some type of planning ahead in the process. Take a hummingbird, for example. They are tiny birds that hover and collect food with a long beak and long tongue. If it evolved the ability to hover without the long beak and tongue, it couldn't eat. Likewise, if it developed the beak and tongue, but couldn't hover, it would not be able to get nectar from flowers.
Ummmmmm that's like saying that evolution isn't possible because it's impossible to evolve feet at the same time as Iegs. But yeah, you should just read a paragraph I don't care to write about evolution and I think you'd understand it.
Something I thought of: We share 98% of the same DNA as chimps and gorrillas right? And we share 40% (FORTY PERCENT) of the same DNA as bacteria. This means that HUGE evolutionary leaps are actually very small, correct? DNA seems to be pretty powerful. All you need to do is alter 2% of the code and you make a leap from termite-eating dumbass chimp to dumbass humans. I wonder how much change it would be to turn chickadee wings into hummingbird wings? Pretty tiny I imagine.
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MushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Dogomush]
#1325560 - 02/21/03 08:46 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm not trying to say that evolution is not possible, I was just trying to point out that it doesn't always add up. I don't know of any animals that have evolved feet without evolving legs.
DNA is an interesting thing. Did you know that frogs have longer DNA sequence than human beings?
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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Chaos theory.
Out of disorder comes order 
DNA is a very complex system...
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: trendal]
#1326032 - 02/22/03 06:07 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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is there really any DISorder though?
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Strumpling]
#1326291 - 02/22/03 09:15 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Dogomush
Barbless Aryan
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: trendal]
#1326501 - 02/22/03 11:16 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, I read in one of those blasted hippy drug books that 90% of DNA is "waste DNA." Just tons of code that doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything else, although DNA is arranged similarly to a crystal, so it resonates at a consistent level, but that 90% of "waste" DNA could have effects in the body just not as the code that creates our cells and such. But really I don't know anything. I'm just some stupid hippy reading hippy drug books with stupid hippy drug-book theories in them.
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Dont you guys get it?? This is where God comes in! these are the examples of the "holes" in science...where the HIGHER level of science that we haven't quite reached yet...spirituality. And I'm not even talking about *religion*...FUCK THAT...I'm talking about PURE spirituality....and God. =) I dare somebody to PROVE me wrong!
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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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In science it falls on the person making the statment to provide the proof.
Making a statement, then asking someone to prove it wrong is silly. You can say "proove that god doesn't exist" to me, but there is no way I could ever proove that. I wouldn't be the one making the statement, so the burden of proof should not fall on me. It falls on the person making the statement.
It's the same tactic used by UFO nuts.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: trendal]
#1327153 - 02/22/03 06:08 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Right, I'm well-aware of that, I just made that statement to show those who arent very quick thinkers that X cant prove Y is wrong and Y cant prove that X is wrong in this case....
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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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MushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: trendal]
#1328492 - 02/23/03 09:34 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is a fact though that UFOs exist
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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.
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cybrbeast
Up, then down, then...
Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 4,777
Loc: event horizon
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Dogomush]
#1328512 - 02/23/03 09:43 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I read an explanation for that 90-99% waste DNA. In the DNA code itself there's also a war. A survival of the fittest. There are some parts in the DNA that mutated in such a way that they copy themselves and add extra copys of themselves in the DNA. These mutations have done this over a long period..
There were also some other reasons given, that I can't remember right now..
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 futuretribe.space 
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Viking
"I've beenworking on myrr..rou..routine!"
Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 304
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: cybrbeast]
#1329265 - 02/23/03 03:53 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Much of the "garbage" DNA simply segregates the useful parts of DNA, and keeps DNA formations stable. There are tons of examples of this....eg: long chains of Adenine:Thymine and so called CG Islands (long sequences of Cytosine and Guanine).
Viking
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