Home | Community | Message Board


Marijuana Demystified
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Science and Technology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Microscope

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
WHY has life evolved?
    #1117263 - 12/06/02 03:11 PM (14 years, 13 hours ago)

We have already discussed whether the theory of evolution is true or not.  I know there are still a few silly people out there who refuse to accept the obvious, but this question is for the evolutionists out there.

We believe life started as a microscopic, single-celled organism somewhere out in the vastness of the ocean during an inconceivably long time ago. 

But why did life not stop there?

What encouraged it to develop further into increasingly more complex organisms and life-forms?  Why did life evolve to come onto land?  Why did life evolve into plants and animals?  Why did life bother to evolve into humans, whose big brains are a threat to all other life on this planet?

Essentially, as the subject says, why has life evolved? 

Have fun! :smile:

-RebelSteve 


--------------------
Namaste.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1117276 - 12/06/02 03:13 PM (14 years, 13 hours ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1117497 - 12/06/02 04:06 PM (14 years, 12 hours ago)

Because it was bored?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1117532 - 12/06/02 04:12 PM (14 years, 12 hours ago)

"to thicken the plot"


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 6 days
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1117538 - 12/06/02 04:13 PM (14 years, 12 hours ago)

Now, I really don't want to insult you, but this is exactly what I was talking about a few threads back when I was saying that some people who "believe" in the theory of evolution don't even really understand it and know what it means.

Evolution is not about things improving, or increasing in size. It's about random changes, and survival. DNA is delicate, when it's being replicated, there are bound to be flaws, it will change from the original with each copy. This is mutation. When one of these random mutations actually improves the organisms ability to survive, then it thrives, expands, and spreads itself. Billions upon billions of mutations eventually lead to multi-celled organisms... then digestive systems, and muscles, and limbs, eyes, ears.... and so on.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1117550 - 12/06/02 04:16 PM (14 years, 12 hours ago)

I hate essay questions, would have been easier if RebelSteve gave us multiple choice.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRemy
Bitches Brew
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 5 years, 23 days
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1117726 - 12/06/02 05:16 PM (14 years, 11 hours ago)

In reply to:


We have already discussed whether the theory of evolution is true or not. I know there are still a few silly people out there who refuse to accept the obvious




The Theory of Evolution is quite flawed. It states that species evolved by random, individual mutations. That is ridiculous. If mutations where random, than how do you explain something like a stickbug, or butterfly with patterns that are meant to look like eyes to the predator. What about symbiosis? Giraffes did not randomly grow a long neck, and then discover they could eat the trees. It grew a long neck so it could eat from the trees.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Remy]
    #1117784 - 12/06/02 05:37 PM (14 years, 11 hours ago)

You should thank me for not being as condescending as I could be. Your questions are very simple to answer. You should try to understand the theory before you decide not to believe it, smart guy.

The Theory of Evolution is quite flawed. It states that species evolved by random, individual mutations. That is ridiculous. If mutations where random, than how do you explain something like a stickbug, or butterfly with patterns that are meant to look like eyes to the predator.

Stickbugs exist because they look like sticks. The precursors to stick bugs mutated randomly over thousands of years to look like tons of different things. There was probably a flashing beacon bug, a bug shaped like a lighthouse (with light), a hamburger-shaped bug, a bright red bug in a green field, a bug who stank in just the right way that a lizard could smell it from a mile away, but SURPRISE they all got eaten and failed to stabilize into a species. Of course, the bug who was shaped and coloured like a stick blended in with its surroundings: sticks! Thus, predators were unable to find them to eat and so the bug shaped like a stick mated with another of its species who DIDn't look like a stick, their babies sorta looked like sticks, and so on and so on until all the insects shaped anything like a stick survived and all the other ones got eaten.

As for butterflies, there once was a butterfly with plain red wings who gave birth to a mutated litter of caterpillars who, when in butterfly form, produced wings with the words "EAT ME" whoops unlucky mutation they all died, but the camouflage butterflies survived. There ya go.

Oh, and girrafes? Well, once upon a time there was a short little pig-like antelope. It ate shrubs. Then one day a plague killed all the shrubs, or maybe another shrub-eating animal moved in and ate all the shrubs. Most of the pig antelopes died, but a few were a little taller so they could eat at young trees. Then a young-tree eater moved in and ate all the young trees. Almost all the slightly taller pig antelopes died, except a few were tall enough to eat the foliage from slightly larger trees, and the the slightly larger tree-eaters moved in.... See where I'm going?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1117793 - 12/06/02 05:42 PM (14 years, 11 hours ago)

Hey has anybody heard about how there's a gene we have who's purpose is to create mutations? I haven't come across this before, I've only heard someone say it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Remy]
    #1117896 - 12/06/02 06:08 PM (14 years, 10 hours ago)

evolution isnt a theory its a fact. how it happened is a theory.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRemy
Bitches Brew
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 5 years, 23 days
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: 1stimer]
    #1117926 - 12/06/02 06:16 PM (14 years, 10 hours ago)

Few thing are facts, but there are many things that we can logically say are true (although all or many of them may not be). The "laws" that govern matter where also "facts", but they were proven to be untrue. Evolution as a word is a fact, but Evolution in the sense of species evolving from random mutations is quite likely a crock of shit.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Remy]
    #1117953 - 12/06/02 06:29 PM (14 years, 10 hours ago)



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRemy
Bitches Brew
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 5 years, 23 days
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1117965 - 12/06/02 06:35 PM (14 years, 10 hours ago)

In reply to:

Stickbugs exist because they look like sticks. The precursors to stick bugs mutated randomly over thousands of years to look like tons of different things. There was probably a flashing beacon bug, a bug shaped like a lighthouse (with light), a hamburger-shaped bug, a bright red bug in a green field, a bug who stank in just the right way that a lizard could smell it from a mile away, but SURPRISE they all got eaten and failed to stabilize into a species. Of course, the bug who was shaped and coloured like a stick blended in with its surroundings: sticks! Thus, predators were unable to find them to eat and so the bug shaped like a stick mated with another of its species who DIDn't look like a stick, their babies sorta looked like sticks, and so on and so on until all the insects shaped anything like a stick survived and all the other ones got eaten.




That ridiculous. You have a terrible misunderstanding of mutations, and how they are stated in the theory of evolution. First of all, there is not just one species of bugs. A bug could that looks like a stick could not be born from a bug that belonged to a species of bugs that didn't resemble sticks. Mutations don't occur that quickly. If one bug resembles a stick, then all other in its species will resemble sticks. Although the evolution is theoretically possible, it is highly, highly unlikely. The Theory of Evolution leaves out the idea that organisms can have a subconcious interaction with there enviroment. I believe that the stickbug evolved to look like a stick, because its enviroment was filled with sticks. How does a stickbug know to act like a stick, it obviously cannot see itself, or know that it looks just like a stick, yet stickbugs will consistantly imitate a twig.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRemy
Bitches Brew
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 5 years, 23 days
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: ]
    #1117977 - 12/06/02 06:39 PM (14 years, 10 hours ago)

In reply to:

Read this, it'll make evolution alot more sensible.




I am not debating the exsistence of evolution, or the fact that one species developed from another. I am debating the theoretical mechanics of evolution, and the Evolutionist view, as well as the origin of life. I simply saying that life and evolution where not random occurances.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Remy]
    #1118257 - 12/06/02 08:22 PM (14 years, 8 hours ago)

evolution isnt a theory its a fact. how it happened is a theory.

This is true.

I do agree with Remy thow, it seems a stick bug wouldn't just randomly evolve into a stick.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1118376 - 12/06/02 09:19 PM (14 years, 7 hours ago)

I agree with most everyone on this thread that evolution occurs and that only "silly" people would dispute the evidence.  :wink:  But I do question if evolution is a result of random mutation alone.  Does the body have the ability to adapt to its surroundings without random mutation?

For example, if we participate in athletics, our body adjusts and becomes stronger.  If we spend a lot of time in the sun, our body adjusts and becomes tanner.  If we come across a new disease, our body remembers it and we become immune to a 2nd occurence.  If we practice holding our breath, our body adjusts and we can do it longer the next time, etc. etc. etc...

Why doesn't the body simply make ALL of us strong, tan, etc. right from the start?  Why does it only adjust in response to our environment?  Is the body capable of adjusting to new experiences that it has never been exposed to before?  What if a group of people decided to spend 8 hours a day swimming, would their bodies somehow change to make swimming easier for them?  If their offspring were to swim 8 hours per day, and then their offspring too, would they all eventually start to grow webbed hands and feet?  Or would that come from random mutation alone?

I don't know the answer, but it seems to me that the body DOES have the ability to adjust to its surroundings.  In the giraffe example, I believe that if a giraffe continually stretched it's neck out to reach for food, its body WOULD adjust by giving it a slightly longer neck.  Maybe the difference would hardly be noticeable in one generation, but over the course of many generations as giraffes kept stretching their necks out for food, their necks would continue to grow.  Not just for the mutated giraffes, but for MOST giraffes.

What do you think?  Is evolution completely random, or might creatures have evolved to a point where their body is actually capable of adjusting/evolving to their surroundings?       


--------------------
:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1118387 - 12/06/02 09:28 PM (14 years, 7 hours ago)

evolution is an example of order in chaos. its as simple as that.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1118390 - 12/06/02 09:32 PM (14 years, 7 hours ago)

I dont think that applies to stick bugs.. you cant really make yourself look like a stick.

Evolution occurs very very very slowly. A bug would live on a tree. If it had offspring who did not blend into the tree, they would die. The offspring who blended in better, (ie those who were longer..) would live more, passing that trait on. Eventually the bugs that kept getting longer would be the ones survining, thus leaving us with present day stick bugs. Make sense?

I say life exists because it CAN exist. If the potential is there, it will eventually be realized. I think.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefalcon
In the green

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 6,832
Last seen: 6 hours, 15 minutes
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: Remy]
    #1118407 - 12/06/02 09:43 PM (14 years, 7 hours ago)

Remy, are you a Lamarkian:do you believe parents can pass acquired characteristics to they're offspring? It's a tempting idea, and it explains evolution, but does't explain how the DNA gets shuffled. In fact its so tempting if I could chose one, that would be it: mind and matter, teamwork. As for as I know though, noones shown how something like that would work.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: WHY has life evolved? [Re: ]
    #1118422 - 12/06/02 09:51 PM (14 years, 7 hours ago)

I certainly agree that many evolutionary changes are completely random. But are ALL changes completely random? Is it possible that the giraffes that stretch their necks to reach the higher branches will grow longer necks as a result of their stretching?

Is it possible that stick bugs may have evolved as a result of actually trying to hide themselves behind a stick. Most animals have an instinct to hide from predators (which may have come from a purely random mutation that helped animals with this mutation to survive). So if a bug hides behind a stick enough, maybe it's body will evolve to help it do that better, just as the body evolves in the other examples I gave. Maybe bugs that hide behind a stick enough will actually move their body in such a way that it will eventually take a stick shape over the course of many. many generations? Isn't this a possibility?


--------------------
:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]

Amazon Shop for: Microscope

General Interest >> Science and Technology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Darwin┬┤s evolution theory - debatable?
( 1 2 all )
Endlessness 2,890 23 05/10/08 06:56 AM
by Seuss
* Humans Are Evolving More Rapidly Than Thought Possible DiploidM 1,217 13 04/12/06 11:08 AM
by defcheck
* Evolution question... lamarboarder1 978 7 10/09/05 11:17 AM
by phi1618
* Proton radiation and Evolution
( 1 2 all )
undergrounder 2,174 26 06/21/08 12:24 AM
by undergrounder
* Evolution
( 1 2 3 all )
cb9fl
3,642 57 10/08/05 05:54 PM
by H_Wrabbit
* Evolution problem
( 1 2 3 all )
Buckeye Oysters 3,495 51 02/10/09 04:53 PM
by zouden
* Evolution is bull
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Ego Death 11,848 98 05/28/08 11:21 PM
by johnm214
* Hans Moravec and the evolution of robots Cognitive_Shift 815 5 02/03/09 07:13 AM
by DimensionX

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Lana, trendal, Diploid, automan
11,233 topic views. 0 members, 3 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Phytoextractum
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.062 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 16 queries.