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Shop: Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11063078 -

It's nice to dream that there's still hope. :shrug:

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Adden]
    #11063095 -

you're referring to the 1984 clip as a 'nice piece of fiction' while
advocating niteowls move to do just that and claiming no one would ever
let it get that far... so much contradiction in such a short time


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11063108 -

I was being flip. It's a major dodge to use a piece of fiction as a social discourse on compulsory physical training.

You think compulsory PT would ever get as far as it does in 1984? Really?

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11063129 -

oh come on.  you're being absurdly hyperbolic.  nite owl was simply talking about being able to walk for 20 minutes straight.  not a mandatory morning exercise regime.  rather than infraction based punishment, it could just as much be incentive based reward.  say, a little extra cash back while filing taxes for those able to show steady improvement or able to maintain the ideal.

i do think that we need to take steps towards prevention and making america healthier in general.  there's no reason for such a significant percentage of our populatin to be clinically obese and unable to perform basic physical tasks.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Adden]
    #11063147 -

Dystopia said:
You think compulsory PT would ever get as far as it does in 1984? Really?



it seems to work in the school systems, not for those that
are too lazy and should also be legislated out of existence


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Adden]
    #11063173 -

The war on terror is a lot like the endless warfare in 1984.  State torture exists though the U.S. government.  1984 economics looks a lot like government bailout stuff...

The novel and movie "1984" is important in that it destroys any illusions people might have about "friendly big brother government".

Sure, it is not a photocopy of what we see today.  We would do well to remember the douchebags like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, & Pol Pot.

We have seen a disturbing increase in fascist behavior in the U.S. government in recent years. We should be paying attention to this.


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Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11063187 -

tiny_rabid_birds said:
oh come on.  you're being absurdly hyperbolic.  nite owl was simply talking about being able to walk for 20 minutes straight.  not a mandatory morning exercise regime.


well shit, 95% or more of the US can do that, assuming they arent in
wheel chairs or 900 years old so it would appear that there's no need to
do anything more than execute those that cant perform up to the minimum
standard that way we can finally be the healthiest nation in america


 
Quote:
rather than infraction based punishment, it could just as much be incentive based reward.  say, a little extra cash back while filing taxes for those able to show steady improvement or able to maintain the ideal.



say you need a little cash and you can show any improvement because
you're already the fittest man in the world, then you're totally fucked
unless you can do back flips from the sears tower and land in los
angeles... but wait... wouldnt depriving the government of the extra
cash be putting all those people that are relying on your tax dollars at
risk of lesser medical care?

Quote:
i do think that we need to take steps towards prevention and making america healthier in general.  there's no reason for such a significant percentage of our populatin to be clinically obese and unable to perform basic physical tasks.


did you listen to the politicians, laws, police or anyone when they said
'dont do drugs'? over weight people never listened to the guys that said
'dont put that twinkie in your mouf' either, steps were taken but no one
is listening unless it's of interest to them, do you believe that
there's a method of accomplishing any of these goals, if so, I'd love to
hear it


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11063212 -

If a grossly overweight man receives free healthcare do we think that he will take better care of his health?

I surmise his thoughts might encompass something along the lines of: "Fuck it, where's dem little debbie snack cakes.  I can afford a heart attack.  I has 'free healthcare, yay!"


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Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (09/15/09 10:53 AM)

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11063230 -

haha.. 95%?  you're delirious.  you'd be surprised at how many people are unable to maintain a decent pace for a full 20 minutes.  it's quite sad.

and did you not read what i wrote?  a said a small reward based incentive for either showing steady improvement OR maintaining the ideal.  hence, the healthiest man in the world would indeed be receiving that small increase in tax return that he was depending so heavily on. 

a little bit of prevention goes a long way.  the aim being to reduce the frequency with which people need to receive treatment and prescriptions for extremely common yet preventable disorders like high blood pressure and diabetes, thus reducing the strain they would be causing on tax dollars in a system with public option.  so yes, it would be trading one strain for another, but like i said, a little prevention goes a long way.

and no, i don't blindly follow government orders, nor should anyone.  education is key here.  to educate people in conjunction with small incentives would hopefully give them enough of a reason to exercise.  i mean, regardless of what politicians tell us, we all know it's a good idea, and there are those who are simply too lazy to be bothered.  so maybe a little extra cash very easily earned could help to provide that inspiration.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11063240 -

"extra cash"

Personally, I don't like government welfare.  I look at it as an insidious form of bribery so government can get away with shenanigans.  Their welfare always has strings attached to it.  That's why many states were refusing all kinds of "bailout cash", they didn't want more federal control usurping local government.


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Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11063255 -

it's not welfare.  it's a subsidy on the taxes you're already paying.  more money added to your tax refund.

i feel this would be a pretty good idea to implement.  for those who don't want to participate, well they don't have to.  and they won't be receiving the benefits.  for those of us who don't mind getting out for a run every so often, or working out a bit to stay in shape, it's a bonus come refund time.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11063272 -

Give them an inch and they will take a mile....

There's nothing wrong with healthcare companies charging less VOLUNTARILY for fit individuals health insurance...


I feel leery about government getting involved even indirectly with people's health...


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Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

Edited by Mr.Al (09/15/09 11:13 AM)

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11063292 -

imo, private insurers simply cannot be trusted to have any aim other than profit.  they don't have people's health actually in best interest.  they make more wayyyyyyyyyyy more money off of your suffering than they would off of the prevention of said suffering.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #11063345 -

Mr.Al said:
If a grossly overweight man receives free healthcare do we think that he will take better care of his health?



if an alcoholic man gets a liver transplant does that address the root
issue as to why he's an alcoholic and destroyed his liver the first time


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11063375 -

tiny_rabid_birds said:
oh come on.  you're being absurdly hyperbolic.  nite owl was simply talking about being able to walk for 20 minutes straight.  not a mandatory morning exercise regime.  rather than infraction based punishment, it could just as much be incentive based reward.  say, a little extra cash back while filing taxes for those able to show steady improvement or able to maintain the ideal.

i do think that we need to take steps towards prevention and making america healthier in general.  there's no reason for such a significant percentage of our populatin to be clinically obese and unable to perform basic physical tasks.



What I was thinking was that your insurance rates could be based on how healthy you are.

Mr.Al said:
If a grossly overweight man receives free healthcare do we think that he will take better care of his health?


Only if there are stipulations associated with his insurance and level of fitness.

If fattie has to pay double what his skinny wife pays, he will have an incentive to get in shape.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11063389 -

tiny_rabid_birds said:
haha.. 95%?  you're delirious.  you'd be surprised at how many people are unable to maintain a decent pace for a full 20 minutes.  it's quite sad.


my claim is no more ridiculous than yours as neither have and
statistical foundation, anecdotal incidence I can show you a
500lb man that can walk 10 miles without dying

Quote:
and did you not read what i wrote?


did you read what I wrote, you're promoting something that would favor
those that previously did nothing over those that would prefer to work
hard to maintain good health, lets reward fat people for getting up and
walking to the fridge as opposed to making their kids fetch them food



Quote:
and no, i don't blindly follow government orders, nor should anyone.  education is key here.  to educate people in conjunction with small incentives would hopefully give them enough of a reason to exercise.



you mean they should do what they already do in schools, on TV and any
time an obese person visits the hospitals? isnt the potential of living
an extra 10 years enough incentive or would you like to promote more
redundancy in legislation and help the fat cats in office keep
justifying their continued existence, it's obvious this 'education'
thing hasnt worked previously, what's to ensure it works in the future,
would it be the cutoff of the healthcare they already arent getting?
wow, seems like a grand idea :crazy2:


Quote:
  i mean, regardless of what politicians tell us, we all know it's a good idea, and there are those who are simply too lazy to be bothered.  so maybe a little extra cash very easily earned could help to provide that inspiration.


regardless of what ANYONE tells us, a few of us BELIEVE it's a good idea
regardless of whether or not they've even looked at any of it while many
more of us BELIEVE it's a bad idea under the same circumstances


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: niteowl]
    #11063397 -

niteowl said:
If fattie has to pay double what his skinny wife pays, he will have an incentive to get in shape.



so much for affordable health care for those that need it and welcome to
discrimination litigation costing billions more in tax payer dollars


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11063404 -

tiny_rabid_birds said:
imo, private insurers simply cannot be trusted to have any aim other than profit.



government agents cannot be trusted to have any other aim than to pad
their pockets with your money


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11063462 -

Prisoner#1 said:
you mean they should do what they already do in schools, on TV and any
time an obese person visits the hospitals? isnt the potential of living
an extra 10 years enough incentive or would you like to promote more
redundancy in legislation and help the fat cats in office keep
justifying their continued existence, it's obvious this 'education'
thing hasnt worked previously, what's to ensure it works in the future,
would it be the cutoff of the healthcare they already arent getting?
wow, seems like a grand idea :crazy2:


Quote:
  i mean, regardless of what politicians tell us, we all know it's a good idea, and there are those who are simply too lazy to be bothered.  so maybe a little extra cash very easily earned could help to provide that inspiration.



i love how you carefully insert the insult about the ineffectiveness of education right in front of my saying that we all know exercise is a good idea, yet people don't all do it, so maybe money can offer extra incentive. 

yes, i am fully aware that the importance is already taught to kids in health class.  yes, i am aware that people still choose not too.  that is why i specified a more immediate gain will help those with limited foresight.

i read what you said, and it still appears as though you did not read/understand my proposal.  there are two means by which you would receive the incentive.  a) if you're unable to perform the PT at an ideal level of performance, then you show steady marked improvement.  b) if you're already a healthy individual able to perform, then you show you are able to maintain that healthy baseline in subsequent visits.  so it doesn't matter if you're a fattie who's improving, or an already fit person exercising to maintain decent health.  both would be rewarded.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11063607 -

tiny_rabid_birds said:
Prisoner#1 said:
you mean they should do what they already do in schools, on TV and any
time an obese person visits the hospitals? isnt the potential of living
an extra 10 years enough incentive or would you like to promote more
redundancy in legislation and help the fat cats in office keep
justifying their continued existence, it's obvious this 'education'
thing hasnt worked previously, what's to ensure it works in the future,
would it be the cutoff of the healthcare they already arent getting?
wow, seems like a grand idea :crazy2:


Quote:
  i mean, regardless of what politicians tell us, we all know it's a good idea, and there are those who are simply too lazy to be bothered.  so maybe a little extra cash very easily earned could help to provide that inspiration.



i love how you carefully insert the insult about the ineffectiveness of education right in front of my saying that we all know exercise is a good idea, yet people don't all do it, so maybe money can offer extra incentive. 



take it as you want but it wasnt intended to be an insult, unless of course you're the fatty we're talking about :smirk:

the point is, the people have been educated, now you want to bribe them,
I wonder what they'll spend the money on, more ding dongs and twinkies?
let their incentive be life or death, if they're dead guess what, we
dont have to pay for the health care that's wasted on them

Quote:
yes, i am fully aware that the importance is already taught to kids in health class.  yes, i am aware that people still choose not too.  that is why i specified a more immediate gain will help those with limited foresight.


superfluous recurrent repetitive redundancy

Quote:
i read what you said, and it still appears as though you did not read/understand my proposal.


I understand fully what you meant, to prove it, here's an example, my
kids are required to clean up their room, if they do so they can get $5
a week for doing what they should be doing anyway, if they dont do it
for a few years you're suggesting I should give them more to do what
they knew they were supposed to do anyway in order to get them to do
what they already knew they should be doing





Quote:
there are two means by which you would receive the incentive.  a) if you're unable to perform the PT at an ideal level of performance, then you show steady marked improvement.  b) if you're already a healthy individual able to perform, then you show you are able to maintain that healthy baseline in subsequent visits.  so it doesn't matter if you're a fattie who's improving, or an already fit person exercising to maintain decent health.  both would be rewarded.



oh, so it's reward the fatty for being a fatty that didnt piss in a
bottle this week and reward the hard worker for being a hard worker
sounds like it's the ultimate in sustainability


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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