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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: TrancedShroom]
    #11045514 -

TrancedShroom said:
I don't want the government knowing my medical records



lol... they have a database the all hospitals and many governemtn agencies have access to

looks like you're fucked


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11045522 -

Only if they had a universal sex system.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: TrancedShroom]
    #11045563 -

TrancedShroom said:
I don't want the government knowing my medical records and raiding me because I get opiates and them knowing I have drugs convictions.


i'm sorry, but if that's the only reason you're against a public health care plan that could help SO MANY uninsured... that's just fucked.

pris, the point stands that Obamacare does NOT support fining the uninsured.  you said it did.  it does not.  the amount of complete lies and slander the GOP and associated "grassroots"* organizations are pushing through the media is absurd. please tell me you don't buy into the "death panel" bullshit too.

i can say this about the GOP, though they might not care about their fellow citizens and they might not always use logic in their policies, they sure as fuck know how to sell the people shit and make them think they're getting gold.  though i suppose that'll happen when the salesmen has little to no ethics in regards to business practices.

*see FreedomWorks: the national "grassroots" organization directly funded by conservative high level political players.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11045571 -

I didn't say I am against universal health care. I just don't want the government to abuse their power with reading the records.

I'm totally for the health care reform.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: TrancedShroom]
    #11045583 -

oh, well in that regard i'm against misuse of private information as well.  i believe there's a very real distinction between helping and prying, which big brother ought to take a lesson on.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11045593 -

Dr. Andrew Weil (Namesake of the Weilii mushroom) made some pretty good points on CNN. I suggest a watch.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/health/2009/09/11/lkl.dr.weil.long.cnn (from this thread)

He made some points that resound with Niteowl: The health problems with this country go far deeper than public vs private insurance.

Our whole health culture and our approach to health is way out of whack. Health care has become an industry, and brought the evils of industrialization with it.

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Green_T]
    #11045599 -

Prying into people's business is what the government is all about.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11045667 -

tiny_rabid_birds said:
pris, the point stands that Obamacare does NOT support fining the uninsured.  you said it did.


um... no, I never specified obamas health care plan

Quote:
please tell me you don't buy into the "death panel" bullshit too.




actually, I advocate something like that, it would actually sway my opinion of the bill somewhat


Quote:
i can say this about the GOP, though they might not care about their fellow citizens and they might not always use logic in their policies, they sure as fuck know how to sell the people shit and make them think they're getting gold.




it's no different than the democrats


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Green_T]
    #11045702 -

Green_T said:
Dr. Andrew Weil (Namesake of the Weilii mushroom) made some pretty good points on CNN. I suggest a watch.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/health/2009/09/11/lkl.dr.weil.long.cnn (from this thread)

He made some points that resound with Niteowl: The health problems with this country go far deeper than public vs private insurance.

Our whole health culture and our approach to health is way out of whack. Health care has become an industry, and brought the evils of industrialization with it.


i wasn't able to watch the whole thing.  it stopped like 8 minutes in and i couldn't get it to start again, or even skip to a different part.  CNN's flash player sucks, btw.  there's no way to skip ahead, so when i restarted it, i'd have to sit through the same 8 minutes again and simply hope it doesn't freeze again.  i guess i'll actually have it going on in the background.

but anyways, on to what he was saying.  you're going to be hard-pressed to find any one individual who would disagree that we need to be healthier.  the problem is the practice.  how do you make someone adopt healthier practices?  how do you make them work out, make them eat their veggies (i'm totally for subsidizing veggies, btw), make them stop smoking cigs?  you can't.  he said start with education, but quite honestly i don't understand how the courses and emphasis could be designed to gain that much more efficacy.  i mean, we already have health class in school.  we already know about the food groups and that exercise is healthy for us.  yet we don't do it.

and the problem with federal mandates on healthy lifestyles is that.. well.. they're federal mandates.  americans love their personal freedoms (as well they should), so "making" people get healthier wouldn't go over too well.  i'm all for educating the people about other options though.  i liked what he was saying about the healthcare system being able to integrate modern medicine with eastern herbal practices to reduce toxicity in chemo patients.  but all in all, up to the point of the video i was able to watch, implementation of his proposed fixes seems nigh impossible.

i'll let you know what i think when i'm able to finish the rest of the video.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Green_T]
    #11045712 -

Green_T said:
Dr. Andrew Weil (Namesake of the Weilii mushroom) made some pretty good points on CNN. I suggest a watch.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/health/2009/09/11/lkl.dr.weil.long.cnn (from this thread)

He made some points that resound with Niteowl: The health problems with this country go far deeper than public vs private insurance.

Our whole health culture and our approach to health is way out of whack. Health care has become an industry, and brought the evils of industrialization with it.


That was an awesome interview.

Dr. Weil has hit the nail in the head.
If people started taking better care of themselves
many of the diseases we suffer from today
(high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity)
would go away in a few years,

The way the system is now, they don't want these diseases to go away
because they would loose a great deal of profit from loss of drug sales.

just look at high blood pressure
it spawns many other diseases

if people simply exercised regularly and ate right
most of these cases of HBP would go away
with nothing more that a little preventative maintenance

the current system needs to be scrapped
and a new one put in its place


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11045731 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
i can say this about the GOP, though they might not care about their fellow citizens and they might not always use logic in their policies, they sure as fuck know how to sell the people shit and make them think they're getting gold.




it's no different than the democrats


i'd say it's different in that the democrats are much less effective.  seriously, look at all the shit we swallowed over the past 8 years.  complete blatant lies.  full-faced unabashed fucking lies directly into the camera, personally looking each viewing citizen directly in the face.  "there are weapons of mass destruction" "terrorist cells in afghanistan are responsible for the attacks, so we're waging war on the afghanis" "if we don't tax the rich, it'll totally benefit you poor folks.  seriously, they're not just going to pocket it all and pad their already bulging pockets."


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11045744 -

tiny_rabid_birds said:
but anyways, on to what he was saying.  you're going to be hard-pressed to find any one individual who would disagree that we need to be healthier.  the problem is the practice.  how do you make someone adopt healthier practices?  how do you make them work out, make them eat their veggies (i'm totally for subsidizing veggies, btw), make them stop smoking cigs?  you can't.  he said start with education, but quite honestly i don't understand how the courses and emphasis could be designed to gain that much more efficacy.  i mean, we already have health class in school.  we already know about the food groups and that exercise is healthy for us.  yet we don't do it.


You have to start charging people who are unhealthy more for coverage.

That is a start.

Making PT mandatory in school is another start.
First class of every day is a 30 minute warm up.
Even if it is nothing more than a 1/2 mile walk around campus

After 10 years the average level of health will go up.
There will be less people with high blood pressure and obesity.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Green_T]
    #11045792 -

Green_T said:
Niteowl: The health problems with this country go far deeper than public vs private insurance.



which is why I've said 'fix what we already have'


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11045854 -

tiny_rabbit_birds speaks pure truth


whoever the fuck is against people getting free health care is basically not human and belongs in a zoo.  or at the bottom of a lake.

anything else is bullshit.

and no one cares if your a junkie Tranced


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How did you get out? I shot my way out... everybody started shooting so I blasted my way out. . . . Tagged a couple of cops. . . . Did you kill anybody? ...a few cops. No real people? ....just cops

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11045859 -

i don't think there is any "fixing" of what we already have.  i finished the video, and i agree 100% with Dr. Weil on the issues that plague the current system.  healthcare is too much of a capitalist product, too much of a profit-garnering industry.  keeping it entirely private simply will not work, as the industry lobbyists have already shown their incredible power in washington.  it can't be fixed until there is a very real threat to those CEOs wallets.

i am absolutely, whole-heartedly a proponent of prevention over treatment.  niteowl, i think it'd be great if a bit more physical activity during school was required.  in fact, i'm pretty much a proponent of the entire second half of Weil's interview.  prevention over treatment, mix of private and public healthcare (invaluable to keep private healthcare in check fiscally), medical practitioner education in alternative medicines, less emphasis on medical specialization/more on medical generalization, and overall increase in public awareness.  yes.  i think that sums up my stance fairly well.  speaking of, i'd really like to read his book.


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #11045961 -

tiny_rabid_birds said:
i'd say it's different in that the democrats are much less effective.  seriously, look at all the shit we swallowed over the past 8 years.


that's true, the democrats failed in their attempts to keep slavery
legal, they've found another means though with welfare programs, of
course now we dont get any work for the money spent so it would appear
that they are not only ineffective but stupid as well :smirk:

now take a look at what we're swallowing now, a big fat political load, under the bush administration at least it was just a facial

 
Quote:
complete blatant lies.


Dempublicans, republicrats, it doesnt matter which side, it's all lies

Quote:
  full-faced unabashed fucking lies directly into the camera, personally looking each viewing citizen directly in the face.  "there are weapons of mass destruction" "terrorist cells in afghanistan are responsible for the attacks, so we're waging war on the afghanis" "if we don't tax the rich, it'll totally benefit you poor folks.


"I'll only increase taxes on those earning $250k+/yr" "I am the only
candidate who isn’t taking a dime from Washington lobbyist" "Selma
Alabama Got Me Born"(4years prior to the march) "Father Was A Goat
Herder"(with a harvard education)"I'll allow five days of public comment
before signing bills""I've managed to drop the unemployment rate" (in
actuality, unemployment dropped those collecting and subsequently
stopped reporting them)"Restoring the Economy is my #1 Task" (why is he
focusing so hard in this bill as opposed to the job creation)

so really, what's the difference?


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11046056 -

Crowd Sourcing. An Explanation.

1. open bill in favorite pdf viewer
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
2. read
3. post your outrage

Eugenics anyone?


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Ratings are bullshit, opt out...
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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: stedenko]
    #11046070 -

^ Is there a part where the government claims to force abortions or sterility for those whom they feel carry inferior genes?

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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: stedenko]
    #11046099 -

stedenko said:
Crowd Sourcing. An Explanation.

1. open bill in favorite pdf viewer
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
2. read
3. post your outrage

Eugenics anyone?



how many bills have been voted on that are in excess of 1000 pages
during the obama administration, I wonder what's going to get tacked
onto this one at 3am with a forced vote the following morning

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

20% that have read the bill support it... that either means that if it
passes it's once again the politicians voting against the wishs of their
constituents or that 80% of the people that have examined the bill are
conservatives showing that liberals really dont give a shit what goes
through congress as long as those bastards are doing something other
than kissing babies


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Re: reasons the us is afraid of universal healthcare... [Re: Green_T]
    #11046109 -

Green_T said:
^ Is there a part where the government claims to force abortions or sterility for those whom they feel carry inferior genes?



no mention of abortion which means theres nothing there barring them from doing it


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