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Yellowstone Geothermal Power
    #10319498 -

"Doing anything is better than just burning the money up.

We should actually use a mix of different technologies to generate the power we need. Geothermal power taps the endless heat of the earth and will be much cheaper than the towers in some areas. The Yellowstone area could provide all our energy needs by itself. The buffalo would not mind. The environmentalist will love it, because nothing will do more for the environment than using clean energy. We could supply the whole counties power just from Yellowstone.

We could take a lot of heat and cool off that future super volcano a little bit and could even delay an eruption. If the Yellowstone area volcano erupts, it could destroy the US and maybe the whole world. An eruption is overdue, so anything we can do to cool it off would be a good thing.

Taking heat from Yellowstone to produce electricity could supply all our energy needs and put off an eruption. The technology to do it is available now. Greenland gets most of its power now from geothermal. We can just hire the people that did it there to do it here."

From, The Present, page 192, www.truthcontest.com

I think there are some really interesting ideas about clean energy in this section. Moreover, the ideas presented in this book are not out of reach, and they are feasible to accomplish with the technology and understanding we have right now. What do you think, friends? Could a Yellowstone Geothermal Energy endeavor solve our energy problems, leading to a progression in the betterment of our material situation?


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..and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

DC at:  Oneness

Edited by Jethro Tull (09/04/09 09:29 AM)

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: Jethro Tull]
    #10320829 -

> Geothermal power taps the endless heat of the earth

Endless heat would imply overunity, which as we understand physics, is impossible.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: Seuss]
    #10321716 -

theoretically, geothermal energy could be used as our main source of energy. creating a single plant to supply all the world's power is crazy though. it might be possible in a few hundred years, but it would have to be massive, and we'd need some way to transport the electricity around the world once it was generated (conventional wires lose a significant portion of their charge over great distances). 

i think it would be more practical to just build lots of moderate sized geothermal plants. i was working on a powerpoint the other day with my mom (she is a director at a large power company in the US) and she had a slide on there showing the 2009 estimate of megawatts generated from all of their power plants. their one geothermal was bringing in about 350, while a single nuclear plant made over 1500. they are about on par with trash and coal burning power plants (although much more expensive to construct), but compared to nuclear, they are still obsolete.

by the time we actually have enough geothermal plants, it is likely that techniques for nuclear fusion reactors will have been perfected. this will provide a huge source of energy that only relies on water, and leaves no significant amount of toxic waste.

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: Jethro Tull]
    #10321837 -

we are going to die out, wether its from the super valcano or are own destruction. why try and prevent it? it is our own fault and the destruction of the earth that where at this catastrophic events, and era. But humans still think they deserve to live on, if we prolong this tyrany of ours, it will only bring more death, corruption, greed, power hungry acts of ours. its understandable, our instinct is to servive at any cost. but how many countless creatures planets etc have to die out before man realizes we are nothing but a weapon. if u put us on a planet that is fresh and uninhabited, we would do what we do best. reap the land, destroy it, kill off any threats, drill for resources, butcher animals for food and eventully kill the planet. we are planet killers....

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: dieselkush]
    #10321850 -

what an amazingly informed, well written, and original argument. let me guess, you just discovered doctor seuss?

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: JT]
    #10321913 -

lol, I guess I have. on a diffrent note, we can have endless energy from this idea. as theyve said, we dont know how far the yellowstone lava tube go down. imo it will not prevent the super eruption or stall it. but it is a good source of energy. an alternative....just like gathering energy from water....

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: JT]
    #10322031 -

Quote:
by the time we actually have enough geothermal plants, it is likely that techniques for nuclear fusion reactors will have been perfected. this will provide a huge source of energy that only relies on water, and leaves no significant amount of toxic waste.


D+D fusion mang.. thats the future.

Deuterium is the perfect fuel. Take water, electrolyze to get the hydrogen and oxygen freed up, ultracentrifuge or distill the hydrogen to get the deuterium, fuel cell the hydrogen and oxygen back to water and retrieve most of the energy you put in to electrolyze.

Basically what it boils down to is that the only real raw material used up to make deuterium is electric power, and electric power is what Deuterium yields in abundance.

Water + energy --> Water + Deuterium
Deuterium + energy --> better fusion fuel + much energy

If we can get this cycle to work, we've got it made.
1 kilo of Deuterium yields as much energy as 5.000 tons of coal or 25.000 barrels of oil. Thermonuclear bombs routinely achieve this level of energy efficiency, so its something that has been successfully done in quantity since the 1950s. Now to turn a ten microsecond event into sustainable power.

Lets juggle some huge numbers for the lulz:


Quote:
There's a whole lot of water on Earth! Something like 326,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallons (326 million trillion gallons) of the stuff (roughly 1,260,000,000,000,000,000,000 liters) can be found on our planet.


1 liter of water = 111 grams of hydrogen

1.26 x 1021 liter water = 0.14 x 1021 kg of hydrogen

Quote:
Deuterium, also called heavy hydrogen, is a stable isotope of hydrogen with a natural abundance in the oceans of Earth of approximately one atom in 6500 of hydrogen (~154 PPM). Deuterium thus accounts for approximately 0.015% (alternately, on a weight basis: 0.030%) of all naturally occurring hydrogen in the oceans on Earth


42 x 1015 kg of Deuterium.

Hah! Thats a number we can actually convert to humanspeak!

42 trillion tons of Deuterium on planet Earth

Remember those 50 Teracalories (209.4 terajoules) we can have from a kilo of Deuterium? (the 25.000 barrels of oil) Time to revert to nerdspeak!

42 x 1015 kg of Deuterium = 8.8 x 1030 joules

wowzers, I can has translation plz?
I need numbers, huge numbers... Internet, gimme the biggest one you got that makes any sense!

Quote:
In 2005, total worldwide energy consumption was 500 Exajoules (= 5 x 1020 J) with 80-90% derived from the combustion of fossil fuels.[1] This is equivalent to an average energy consumption rate of 16 TW (= 1.6 x 1013 W).



mmmmhhh yeah.. thats what I call a fix!

All deuterium on earth can take care of world energy needs at the current rate of consumption for 17.6 billion years

mmmmmmmm I hope it was as good for y'all as it was for me *lights a cigarette*

Theres 17.6 billion years of current energy consumption's worth of energy in the deuterium in the waters of planet earth. Optimistically, we should be set for the next thousand years, long before which we will be extracting our energy from the Gas Giant planets.

Space exploration expands in all directions. Gas giants are ubiquitous. On the average, each time we double the number of lightyears of our conquest of the stars, we increase the amount of available energy by an eightfold.

Once we get D+D fusion reactors going we have it made guys.. Dont get me started of unanticipated future developments like deuterium powered fusion fuel cells.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

Edited by Asante (05/12/09 08:30 PM)

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: Asante]
    #10322129 -

Cool! That was good.

Quote:
1 kilo of Deuterium yields as much energy as 50 tons of coal or 125 barrels of oil.


I think 1 kg Deuterium would yield much more energy than 125 barrels of oil. Where did you get those numbers?

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: Annom]
    #10322283 -

> I think 1 kg Deuterium would yield much more energy than 125 barrels of oil. Where did you get those numbers?

If I did my math correctly, burning 0.5g D-D results in aprox 260000 GJ of usable energy.  Burning 125 barrels of oil results in aprox 750 GJ of energy.  (Numbers mostly from memory; I could be off)


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: Seuss]
    #10323722 -

See, you guys have some excellent ideas, and DT may be our future, but the point of this thread is to discuss Yellowstone Geothermal Power.  We have the technology to build geothermal plants right now.  We can use the heat that the Earth naturally produces to work in harmony with nature, and slowly drift away from burning valuable resources.  I think a combination of technologies should be tried, but the heat from the volcanic area of Yellowstone has the capability to power this entire nation.  I think it is a plausible strategy that we can do very soon to help fix the economy, and more importantly, lessen our impact on the environment.


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..and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

DC at:  Oneness

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: Jethro Tull]
    #10323822 -

Well, whatever role geothermal will have in our future - it wont all come from Yellowstone.  You cant transport power all over the country like that.

Also you say that Yellowstone has the capability of power the whole nation.  I dont believe that, where did you get that?  What kind of peak wattage would a Yellowstone plant give? 

A quick google search reveals that the US peak electrical consumption is just under 1 TW.  If you think that can be displaced with geothermal power from Yellowstone alone, transmitted all the way across the country then your in for a disappointment.  That is pure fantasy.

The only silver bullet that could displace the bulk of our usage is the fusion mentioned above.  Otherwise, all the alternative sources will be used with each playing a small role.  And I think that is the future of geothermal power, a small role.

Edited by Qubit (05/11/09 08:45 PM)

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: Annom]
    #10329347 -

I had a brain fart! Well-spotted, thanks!

The correct approximates are 5.000 tons of coal or 25.000 barrels of oil for 1 kg Deuterium, the calculation stands, I just fux0red the calculation to fossile fuels but the underlying energy was correct.

I recall from a nuclear weapons text that fusion fuel, be it LiD or D2, has a theoretical maximum explosive yield of around 50 kT TNT per kilo. Exploding TNT has an energy release very conveniently close to 1 kcal/gr putting Deuterium at around 50 Teracalorie/kg - and 10 tons of TNT again conveniently has the energy release of around 1 ton of coal or 5 barrels of oil.

A little confusion did the rest.

The rest stands though, the 42 trillion tons of Deuterium and the 17.6 billion years of current energy consumption are now part of memory ^_^


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: Asante]
    #10337427 -

just need to use algae or some weird  catalyst there working on to get teh hydrogen out otherwise dont think you would net much power.

if there was a larger population near yellowstone it would be much better. and to assume drilling holes all inthe ground and cooling it off as you take the energy will slow an eruption is a pretty big jump. if magma began to rise the little bit of cooling wouldnt do shit. what it might do is produce more rigid rocks with more fractures making it perfect for magma to rise up and explode.


--------------------
And Moses Said "Let my mushrooms grow!"

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: the man]
    #10337692 -

The money is in oil... And coal... That's not likely to change unless people who lobby for geothermal energy are actually taken seriously.. I don't think they are, or any environmentalist group.. I think people just say "yea, yea, OK, OK" and then never do anything they say. The environment is just not important opposed to personal gain.. You can say what you want but people want to make money not make a better earth.. Once these "green" procedures and services become very cheap they won't go over big. I just don't think many people care about the planet. They do but they care about making money 1st and foremost. That's why most environment people are rich or born with money.. Then they have nothing to worry about in the short term..

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: 79towncar]
    #10337726 -

79towncar said:
The money is in oil... And coal... That's not likely to change unless people who lobby for geothermal energy are actually taken seriously.. I don't think they are, or any environmentalist group.. I think people just say "yea, yea, OK, OK" and then never do anything they say. The environment is just not important opposed to personal gain.. You can say what you want but people want to make money not make a better earth.. Once these "green" procedures and services become very cheap they won't go over big. I just don't think many people care about the planet. They do but they care about making money 1st and foremost. That's why most environment people are rich or born with money.. Then they have nothing to worry about in the short term..



And here we can see the true meaning of environmentalism, where it is just a means to oppose capitalism and evil people who make a profit.

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: 79towncar]
    #10337756 -

I agree nuclear energy is the future plan for America. United States and our allies could possibly get ahold of mostly all the nuclear material on earth and hold a monopoly over the industry. Kinda like how alot of oil is controlled by one part of the world. I think American, the U.k, China, France and possibly Russia could get ahold of and control all the nuclear energy in the world. Thus making United states a very rich nation and make money for our allies. Also we could seriously reduce the threat of other more dubious nations from getting nuclear material for bomb making. While we produce bombs to consolidate and keep hold of power around the world.

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: 79towncar]
    #10337783 -

Qubit that's not what I meant. What I meant was regular people don't care about the planet. They care about making money. Most regular people just want to make money and don't care how. Personal gain is more important then protecting the environment. Regular people just want to be rich.

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: 79towncar]
    #10341440 -

canada has all the richest uranium :smile:

i dunno about geothermal power plants. the personal home ones are pretty neat like reverse refrigerators good to warm houses. to produce decent power im pretty skeptical

problems with geotherm power plants that i can think of
1) few places are actually suitable for efficient use. lack of investment because of that. yellowstone is a national park. one of the first in NA if im not mistaken. no way they are gunna build a power plant there.
2) substantial pollution. heavy metals, sulfur, radon, CO2 methane are all released with the increase in water exchange and extraction of heat via the water. huge amounts of water are needed, may cause major issues with ground water and contam peoples drinking water. it is far cry from being clean


yes its good to look for new sources of energy, but the real answer is changing yoru way of life. If we are really concerned thats what we need to change. In the big picture this means not living the life we have now. but to give up all the medical technologies, and all sorts of quality of life we do enjoy now is a pretty hard sell for alot of people. self sustaining is great and id love that, but impossible for the current worlds population for everyone to do that. climate does change it always has, our way to deal with it in the current world is to utilize alot of energy farming producing chmicals machinery storage. so perhaps lowering the worlds population coupled with self sustaining way of life, and somehow be able to move around when the climate changes without any conflict with other surrounding people.(but no great med and shit we hve now) somehow i dont see that happening. maybe a happy medium is all we can do.    sorry half baked rant


--------------------
And Moses Said "Let my mushrooms grow!"

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: the man]
    #10345896 -

Yes they do, but Canada are allies.. United States and Canada will always be allies probably. Similar culture (well kinda ha). Democratic, diverse, rich, good trade.. Also the strategic borders we share ha. If Canada ever had war on their soil you bet it would be in United States interests to send troops, weapons, whatever. Also vice versa..

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Re: Yellowstone Geothermal Power [Re: 79towncar]
    #10345928 -

on a similar note.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iNfrGcynNUWA7rGsrQD5hm33Pq5wD986AACO0


--------------------
You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.

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