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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10105391 -

Quote:
you are such a whore for your ideology. Like 2 of his links cover what could be considered fraud, the rest are the kind that you wouldn't permit if it were us posting them. Fortunately it's Luddite though so nobody will pay attention anyway.



Incorrect. I checked all the links. There is one of the links - a fairly lengthy one - which (perhaps because of its length) goes into a fair amount of detail showing just exactly how the IPCC is committing fraud. In the process of that explanation, it does end up showing some graphs. It was because of that single link that I went to the trouble of warning Luddite to stay on the correct side of the line. If he had left out that link I wouldn't have had to say anything at all, because the rest of the links do not discuss the science at all. They discuss the political agendas and fundraising connections of the Warmenists or they point out the blatant examples of Warmenists fudging data. Both of those topics are fair game in this forum, since both of those aspects of the debate bear directly on the likelihood of the politicians in charge ruling one way or the other on matters of public policy.

You're making yourself look foolish with your inaccurate whining. Man up and discuss the ramifications of this legislative defeat of Obama's idiotic policy or go play in a different thread.




Phred


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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: Phred]
    #10105552 -

Bullshit the first link made an asinine scientific assertion that I would prove false in a second except only right wingers are allowed to mention science as long as they portray it in the form of Loki the fraudulent demon of human creation.

I already did state the impact of this decision for the US BTW. If this attitude stands the US is fucked and will have trouble running buisness in other developed nations over time.


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10105579 -

Quote:
If this attitude stands the US is fucked and will have trouble running buisness in other developed nations over time.



Yeah, right. All the dozens of other "developed nations" who are rushing to increase their energy costs astronomically through imposing draconian taxes on businesses that burn stuff in order to produce energy. Why don't you name a few of these countries for us?





Phred


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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: Phred]
    #10105693 -

well lets see Most of Europe, China, India ya know just to name a few that the US government owes shit loads of money to. Many European nations already have carbon taxes and/or cap and trade systems on the books already. I can think of one nation, Denmark where the taxes had incentivized an internationally prosperous industry producing and engineering wind turbines. All because of regulation. But I suppose it's not like the inverse is happening in the US and some major domestic industry in the US is suffering because it makes shitty gas guzzling vehicles and the US government did nothing to stop it when it had good reason and good authority to use it's regulatory power.


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10105954 -

Quote:
well lets see Most of Europe, China, India ya know just to name a few....



China and India tax Chinese and Indian corporations which burn coal or oil or natural gas more than they tax businesses which don't? I'm gonna need a credible source for that claim.

Quote:
I can think of one nation, Denmark where the taxes had incentivized an internationally prosperous industry producing and engineering wind turbines.



Are you saying Denmark taxes Danish corporations which burn coal or oil or natural gas more than they tax businesses which don't? Or are you saying they give tax breaks and/or subsidies to corporations which use wind turbines? Because the two actions are not equivalent.





Phred


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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: Phred]
    #10106134 -

Scavenger demostrates once again his poor reading skills while spewing his communist propaganda.

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: Luddite]
    #10106202 -

US manufacturers seek protection from climate bill
Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:31pm EDT

WASHINGTON, March 24 (Reuters) - Production of steel, cement, chemicals and other energy-intensive products could move overseas unless a proposed bill to fight global warming gives U.S. manufacturers tax breaks or other subsidies, an industry coalition told lawmakers on Tuesday.

"If the U.S. enacts tough global warming regulation but other key manufacturing nations do not, production of energy-intensive goods may well shift to the unregulated countries," said John McMackin on behalf of the Energy-Intensive Manufacturers' Working Group.

more here:
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idAFN2453113020090324?rpc=44
and possibly more unemployment thanks to the magic negro.

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: Luddite]
    #10106241 -

this would have never happened if we still had the 3/5ths compromise

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #10106697 -

EntheogenicPeace said:
About the sea level rise, a climatologist from Australia I think calculated what the approximate sea level rise would be from the polar ice caps melting based on how high it got the last time they did, using an island/coastal area of Australia to document what had happened before. I think his calculations came out to 12-15 feet. Do you know anything about this man & his work? (I saw him on a program for The Science Channel)



It would have almost certainly been Tim Flannery, Australian of the Year 2007 and all round champ.


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: zouden]
    #10106715 -

All around chump, you mean. Flannery has a seventy-thirty chance of being wrong every time he makes a pronouncement on climate. The man is a laughingstock.





Phred


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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: Phred]
    #10106781 -

I don't see you being given your country's highest honour, Phred. Perhaps you should call the National Australia Day Council Board and inform them of their mistake.

And seventy/thirty? Which 30% is he correct on? The whaling issue?


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Edited by zouden (04/04/09 09:18 PM)

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: zouden]
    #10106822 -

Whatever he was being honored for, let's pray it was for his work in areas other than Global Warmening predictions, since his track record there has been close to one hundred per cent fail.

My guess is he was given the award based on his recommendation that Australia's population should be cut by two thirds. A reduction in the number of Aussies is always a step in the right direction, eh?




Phred


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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: Phred]
    #10106835 -

Meh. Enough about Timmy. Time to get back to the enormous sense of relief America is basking in now that Obama's Cap and Trade idiocy has been defeated.




Phred


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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: Phred]
    #10106927 -

Quote:
Whatever he was being honored for, let's pray it was for his work in areas other than Global Warmening predictions, since his track record there has been close to one hundred per cent fail.



No do go on about Tim here I'd love to hear some proof of your claims. I read his book "the weathermakers" and I thought he was very moderate and scientific in his approach.

Oh and if the Dominican republic ever does award a national honer like "Biggest douchebag on the island" that you can win we'll be sure to root for you.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10106956 -

:lol:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: zouden]
    #10109557 -

Auto-Summary
In a scathing critique, Christopher Booker argues that President-elect Barack Obama's stance on climate change is based on "grotesque misinformation" and threatens to inflict economic damage on the US and other countries. Obama's claims about the urgency of the climate crisis, as outlined in a video to be shown at a UN conference in Poland, are disputed by Booker, who points out that the evidence cited by Obama is misleading or incorrect. Specifically, Booker disputes Obama's claims that sea levels are rising, coastlines are shrinking, and droughts and hurricanes are increasing. He notes that sea levels have been rising at a modest rate for centuries, and that some low-lying islands have actually seen a decrease in sea levels in recent decades. Booker also criticizes Obama's proposed policies, including a "federal cap and trade system" and a massive "carbon tax" that would require the US to drastically reduce its CO2 emissions. He argues that these policies would be economically disastrous and would likely require the closure of large parts of the US economy. Booker concludes that Obama's stance on climate change is based on a "post-scientific hysteria" that ignores evidence and reason.

President-elect Barack Obama proposes economic suicide for US
By Christopher Booker

If the holder of the most powerful office in the world proposed a policy guaranteed to inflict untold damage on his own country and many others, on the basis of claims so demonstrably fallacious that they amount to a string of self-deluding lies, we might well be concerned. The relevance of this is not to President Bush, as some might imagine, but to a recent policy statement by President-elect Obama.

Tomorrow, delegates from 190 countries will meet in Poznan, Poland, to pave the way for next year's UN conference in Copenhagen at which the world will agree a successor to the Kyoto Protocol on climate change. They will see a video of Mr Obama, in only his second major policy commitment, pledging that America is now about to play the leading role in the fight to "save the planet" from global warming.

Mr Obama begins by saying that "the science is beyond dispute and the facts are clear". "Sea levels," he claims, "are rising, coastlines are shrinking, we've seen record drought, spreading famine and storms that are growing stronger with each passing hurricane season."

Far from the science being "beyond dispute", we can only deduce from this that Mr Obama has believed all he was told by Al Gore's wondrously batty film An Inconvenient Truth without bothering to check the facts. Each of these four statements is so wildly at odds with the truth that on this score alone we should be seriously worried.

It is true that average sea levels are modestly rising, but no faster than they have been doing for three centuries. Gore's film may predict a rise this century of 20 feet, but even the UN's International Panel on Climate Change only predicts a rise of between four and 17 inches. The main focus of alarm here has been the fate of low-lying coral islands such as the Maldives and Tuvalu.

Around each of these tiny countries, according to the international Commission on Sea Level Changes and other studies, sea levels in recent decades have actually fallen. The Indian Ocean was higher between 1900 and 1970 than it has been since. Satellite measurements show that since 1993 the sea level around Tuvalu has gone down by four inches.

Coastlines are not "shrinking" except where land is subsiding, as on the east coast of England, where it has been doing so for thousands of years. Gore became particularly muddled by this, pointing to how many times the Thames Barrier has had to be closed in recent years, unaware that this was more often to keep river water in during droughts than to stop the sea coming in.

Far from global warming having increased the number of droughts, the very opposite is the case. The most comprehensive study (Narisma et al, 2007) showed that, of the 20th century's 30 major drought episodes, 22 were in the first six decades, with only five between 1961 and 1980. The most recent two decades produced just three.

Mr Obama has again been taken in over hurricanes. Despite a recent press release from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration claiming that 2008's North Atlantic hurricane season "set records", even its own release later admits that it only tied as "the fifth most active" since 1944. NOAA's own graphs show hurricane activity higher in the 1950s than recently. A recent Florida State University study of tropical cyclone activity across the world (see the Watts Up With That? website) shows a steady reduction over the past four years.

Alarming though it may be that the next US President should have fallen for all this claptrap, much more worrying is what he proposes to do on the basis of such grotesque misinformation. For a start he plans to introduce a "federal cap and trade system", a massive "carbon tax", designed to reduce America's CO2 emissions "to their 1990 levels by 2020 and reduce them an additional 80 per cent by 2050". Such a target, which would put America ahead of any other country in the world, could only be achieved by closing down a large part of the US economy.

Mr Obama floats off still further from reality when he proposes spending $15 billion a year to encourage "clean energy" sources, such as thousands more wind turbines. He is clearly unaware that wind energy is so hopelessly ineffective that the 10,000 turbines America already has, representing "18 gigawatts of installed capacity", only generate 4.5GW of power, less than that supplied by a single giant coal-fired power station.

He talks blithely of allowing only "clean" coal-fired power plants, using "carbon capture" - burying the CO2 in holes in the ground - which would double the price of electricity, but the technology for which hasn't even yet been developed. He then babbles on about "generating five million new green jobs". This will presumably consist of hiring millions of Americans to generate power by running around on treadmills, to replace all those "dirty" coal-fired power stations which currently supply the US with half its electricity.

If this sounds like an elaborate economic suicide note, for what is still the earth's richest nation, it is still not enough for many environmentalists. Positively foaming at the mouth in The Guardian last week, George Monbiot claimed that the plight of the planet is now so grave that even "sensible programmes of the kind Obama proposes are now irrelevant". The only way to avert the "collapse of human civilisation", according to the Great Moonbat, would be "the complete decarbonisation of the global economy soon after 2050".

For 300 years science helped to turn Western civilisation into the richest and most comfortable the world has ever seen. Now it seems we have suddenly been plunged into a new age of superstition, where scientific evidence no longer counts for anything. The fact that America will soon be ruled by a man wholly under the spell of this post-scientific hysteria may leave us in wondering despair.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/30/do3010.xml

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: Luddite]
    #10109728 -

Luddite said:
Scavenger demostrates once again his poor reading skills while spewing his communist propaganda.



Awesome, more trolling not addressed by the mods.

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: Hypercube]
    #10109792 -

Obamma seems to be acting like a child who just realized he has unlimited credit, he is spending without thinking of consequence...like the typical leftist, what happened to all the promises and the change? This wasn't what the country needs, that is for sure...


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aka NHMI

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: rizingfire]
    #10110958 -

I was under the impression that this was the type of change that was on the menu.


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion [Re: Redstorm]
    #10117647 -

Redstorm demostrates once again his poor reading skills while spewing his communist propaganda.

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