Home | Community | Message Board


RVF Garden Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,045
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 5 hours, 17 minutes
Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit
    #1321420 - 02/20/03 08:21 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit

By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer

WASHINGTON - Replaying a drama from last year, the government is once again bumping against the debt limit of $6.4 trillion and the Treasury Department (news - web sites) has begun taking evasive actions to prevent an unprecedented default on the national debt.

Treasury Secretary John Snow informed leaders of Congress on Wednesday that the government would reach the borrowing limit on Thursday and he would begin pulling investments out of a $48 billion government pension fund to make room for normal public borrowing auctions.


In a reference to the looming possibility of a war with Iraq, Snow urged Congress to act without delay to raise the borrowing limit.


"I know that you share the president's and my commitment to maintaining the full faith and credit of the U.S. government, especially at this critical time," Snow said in his letter.


"Together we must continue working to enact an increase in the statutory debt limit as quickly as possible to avoid any negative repercussions at home or abroad," Snow said.


The drama was similar to one that unfolded last year as Congress finally raised the debt ceiling from $5.95 trillion to the current limit of $6.4 trillion on June 28, but only after months of debate and brinksmanship with then-Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill having to resort to ever-more elaborate procedures to shift funds in order to clear room for necessary borrowing.


Republicans will push to approve the Bush administration's request for a higher debt limit, citing the need to protect the country's excellent credit rating. U.S. Treasury securities are considered the safest investment in the world because the government has always met its obligations.


But Democrats are certain to use that request as a chance to criticize President Bush (news - web sites)'s tax cut policies, which they contend have led to record budget deficits and the need for a higher debt limit.


A group of conservative House Democrats promised to oppose any increase in the debt limit that was not coupled with a plan to deal with the rising deficits.


"Less than nine months after raising the federal debt ceiling by a whopping $450 billion, the Treasury Department is once again demanding a blank check from Congress," the Blue Dog Coalition said in a statement. "We will only do harm to our country, our economy and our citizens if the federal government continues to borrow and spend with no regard for the burden it places on taxpayers and generations to come."


Snow said the administration would begin making room for normal borrowing Thursday by not fully investing in the Government Securities Investment Fund, often called the G-fund. This fund, which totals $48 billion, is used by the government to credit earnings for federal employees' pensions.


Snow stressed in the letter that any investments taken out of the G-fund to make room for other government borrowing would be replaced with interest earnings once Congress passes a new debt ceiling. Congress currently is in a weeklong recess.


The government can take similar actions with other government funds and there is a possibility it could make it to April 15 when a flood of tax payments will bolster government coffers.


Last year, the administration sought an increase of $750 billion in the debt ceiling, hoping to avoid a second battle so soon in the new Congress. However, Democrats in the Senate successfully blocked that effort and the actual amount approved was a much smaller $450 billion.


This time, Brian Roseboro, Treasury's assistant secretary for financial management, said the administration is not asking for a specific amount, leaving that decision up to Congress.


In testimony last week, Federal Reserve (news - web sites) Chairman Alan Greenspan (news - web sites) said Congress should consider doing away with the debt limit, saying it "has never in my judgment been successful in doing what it is supposed to have been doing, namely constrain spending."


Roseboro said the administration agreed with that sentiment, citing a comment made by O'Neill last year when he called the debt ceiling "an abomination."


While the debate over the debt limit often grows intense, as a practical matter Congress would be very unlikely to allow government finances to reach a point where there would be the possibility of an actual default on any part of the national debt, given the effect that would have on the government's credit rating and future interest levels it would have to pay on its substantial debt.

The national debt subject to limit stood at $6.392 trillion as of Tuesday, just $8 billion shy of the $6.4 trillion limit. http://www.treasury.gov/press/releases/reports/debtlimitlettertocongress.pdf

___

On the Net:

Snow's letter to Congress:


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,770
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 9 hours, 36 minutes
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1321535 - 02/20/03 09:13 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Legalize drugs.





--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledee_N_ae
\/\/¡†¢h |-|øµ§³ ¢å†
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 2,473
Loc: The Shadow of Neptune
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: Learyfan]
    #1321638 - 02/20/03 10:03 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Best picture ever.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,045
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 5 hours, 17 minutes
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: Learyfan]
    #1321926 - 02/20/03 11:34 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yep, ending the drug war would fix it.

BTW, why do you think Bush knew about the 9/11 plot prior to the attack? He looked surprised to me on the video when he was told. Do you think he was acting?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 14 days, 2 hours
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1321947 - 02/20/03 11:37 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

He didn't seem all that surprised or concerned considering he continued to speak to the children even after he was informed of the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbour....logic would dictate that the Secret Service should have hustled him out of there to a secure location...unless of course he knew that he was never in danger.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1321991 - 02/20/03 11:51 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hmmm...

How long do you think it will take to pay back $6 400 000 000 000?

Do they get charged interest?

If you had a that on a credit card, 22% p.a. interest, it would $1 408 000 000 000 ($1.408 trillion) added debt p.a. Even 1% interest. $64 000 000 000 ($64 billion) added debt p.a.


--------------------
MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1322021 - 02/20/03 12:10 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

> Yep, ending the drug war would fix it.

Ending the drug war will fix alot of things. Do you guys got the guts to do it?

> BTW, why do you think Bush knew about the 9/11 plot prior to the attack?

Bush didn't know. He is still raging mad and pissed off about it too! Maybe some of his advisors knew.

Why does Bush want more money - for war? He gives tax cuts yet increases spending. argh! I hope Bush doesn't run America into disaster.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: pattern]
    #1322074 - 02/20/03 12:31 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I hope Bush doesn't run America into disaster.


Tick. Tick. Tick.


--------------------
MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAsanteA
light your candle on my love
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 51,493
Loc: Right Here - Right Now
Last seen: 2 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: MushyMay]
    #1323577 - 02/21/03 02:34 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

How much is $6.400.000.000.000 ?
I wanna visualize that..

Suppose that if you pressed 1.000 bills of $1.000 really tight on top of eachother, the stack would be 10 centimeters high, being 4inch, nay? So a million dollars would be 4 inches high.

$6.400.000.000.000 would thus be a stack of tightly pressed $1.000 bills that's 640 kilometers high :shocked:

I dunno how much miles that is, but I know that if it were $1 bills tightly pressed on top of eachother you've got a stack of bucks that's twice as high as the distance between the earth & the moon  :shocked:
Should that stack collapse & all fall back to earth it's a solid pile bigger than mount everest!

Suppose we all wanted that $6.400.000.000.000 back all at once... Would Bush sell off some states or start WW III? 


--------------------
CLICK ONE -->  :redpill:  :bluepill:  <-- GO PLACES
SEARCH ENGINE  SUPPORT TICKETS  STORE  SPONSORS/VENDORS  AMANI
PSYCHOSIS, SYNCHRONICITIES, SHAMANISM & THE SUPERNATURAL WA&F

From the Outcasts to the Incrowd, from the Clueless to the Helpful, it takes the whole Shroomery to help a n00b


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBowlKiller
----
Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 757
Last seen: 12 years, 22 days
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: Asante]
    #1324002 - 02/21/03 07:06 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Everyone in this thread. You do know that there is at least 34 trillion dollars in the federal reserve, right?

http://www.hometown.aol.com/cafr1/CAFR.html Please look at this, here is the proof.

----- further explination -----

In order to understand the whole debt situation look at it this way. If a husband makes monthly 100 dollars and then tells his wife "honey we have a budget of 5 dollars every month." but does not tell her about the extra 95 dollars. Then lets say one month she goes over thier Budget by 4 dollars. So they have a budget deficit of 4 dollars. And so the husband is like "oh my goodness honey we have a deficit of 4 dollars, you're going to have to get a job, and we are going to have to make some cut backs" But the husband forgets to mention the 91 dollar surplus for that month. So in reality there is no problem, but the husband just wants the wife to work more and sacrifice.

Do you understand?

Lets make it more clear. The people who are making decisions as to the finincial situation of America are constantly talking about this deficit and giving out a number to represent our debt. Now this number is huge. So to most people when they hear of a number that is in the trillions are really, you know, overwhelmingly shocked. They gasp! and try to wrap thier minds around "how big a number that is" And of course the news media takes this and runs with it constantly beating it into our heads "A debt!! A debt!! its huge!!! its out of control!!" So when people hear this and read about this it seems like there is something really bad, you know because of the way it is spoken about. So having this large number causes people to lose sight of "economic truth" and focus on, you know, the percieved problem and talks about plans to fix it. Very few people in thier minds are quick to think, wait what is this debt? How is this all calculated, what is going on here?
And the most sad part is even if someone is curious as to what the financial situation may be, when they look for answers they are more than likely directed to untrue reports or unclear reports, or true reports, but the interpretation of them is wrong, or they just go to a incorrect media source ( I think we all know what these are by now, if you dont, think TV news, incorrect newspaper journalists, etc.)

OK so now that you see what triggers the "huge debt problem" lets further apply how this affects you.

I remember being a kid and seeing people talk about how we needed to donate money to the govt. to help get rid of this national debt. We were even encouraged to fucking give our penny collections! You would see parents with thier kids with jugs full of change at some donation center on TV and they were all smiles n shit and it was like "great kid you are really helping out" Now your paycheck is taxed, and you pay many other state and local taxes. It is a fact that the money generated from federal income tax goes directly into the federal reserve. So the govt. is constantly drumming this thought into your head that there is this huge debt and so we have to tax you so much because if not there will not be enough money. When in reality the money is just going into a federal reserve. If you are not following me yet, that means your money is going into a huge surplus -- Surplus = the money left over after all the bills have been paid.

Now do you think you are going to see a reporter on NBC come on and talk about how the country currently has trillions of dollars in surplus? No. Why not? #1 the talking heads are controlled by govt. #2 they dont want people to stop allowing themselves to be overtaxed.

Now the crazy thing is that there are agencies ( IRS ) with people running them that dont even understand how the financial system works in this country. And I am talking to the very top of the agency. (Probably the ones at the very top know, but dont say anything cause they are not going to give up thier pice of the pie) And so these agencies will come to your home with fully armed swat teams if you are behind on your taxes and take your property at gun point. What the hell are you going to do about it? there will be an Mp5 in your face and 4 cops pouncing on your back taking you away.

Dont know what I'm talking about, think things like that do not happen?? Lets say your a 65 year old farmer, you have land in the midwest, it has been in your family for 100 years or more. The land is totally paid off, has been for a long time. You farm the land and all, but lately you are getting older and can't farm as much so really your going to retire. Now you have some money saved up and you just want to live out your life. BUT WAIT! you still have to pay increasing property taxes each year. Oh what you cant afford to pay the taxes because you dont really farm anymore and your retired and you just have enough income each month to get buy and live out your life?!? Well, sorry, we are the IRS we are here to take your home since you "won't" pay the taxes.

So the old man tells people "you know I just could not afford the overtaxing, I have lived my life without commiting a crime, I always paid my taxes" Any media coverage tells people, "a farmer didn't pay his taxes and so he is unamerican, he is a bad man, and cops even had to take him out of his home at gun point, what a shameful man"

Now it would be intresting if I was just making this whole situation up to prove a point. But I am not making it up, this shit really goes on. And its not always farmers that are old, I use that as an example you can apply it to many many situations. In other words, that shit really does happen.

You can look up state comprehensive annual financial reports online and see how much extra money there really is. These reports are sent to news agencies, but never reported on. Many times in the reports the numbers are represented in the millions or thousands. That means that a smaller number is printed but it represents a much larger number. example: 20,000 in the thousands would be 20 million. So that is one thing you have to notice, it will say how the numbers are being represented in the report. I only mention that in case someone does not notice that and feels like the numbers are small.

Here are web pages which support what I am saying in much greater detail.

http://www.hometown.aol.com/cafr1/CAFR.html -- Look here!! this really sums it up--

http://www.wces.org/html_files/burien.html

I you really want to understand, just look at the web page.







--------------------
----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: BowlKiller]
    #1324730 - 02/21/03 01:02 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

After reading that I never want to hear another person whining about "Ooh, I don't want MY taxes paying for this, Ooh, I shouldn't have to pay for that with MY taxes." Basically from what I have just read the US gov't has more money than I think it could ever spend. So what the fuck are they doing with it? They're NOT spending it on Medicare. They're NOT spending it on schooling, libraries or Universities. They're NOT even spending it on NASA anymore. So what the fuck are they doing with it or what do they plan to do with it?


--------------------
MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: MushyMay]
    #1324745 - 02/21/03 01:10 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Basically from what I have just read the US gov't has more money than I think it could ever spend. So what the fuck are they doing with it?



The answer to that is behind mountains of red tape and bastardized English.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: Anonymous]
    #1324774 - 02/21/03 01:26 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The answer to that is behind mountains of red tape and bastardized English.


Exactly what do you mean by the word "is"?


--------------------
MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: MushyMay]
    #1324862 - 02/21/03 02:08 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Under the conditions, which hereafter must be met, that you are a citizen of the United States of America in posession of at least two forms of state or federally issued identification and know the form number of the file you wish to see, the word "is" shall be defined as a verb.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBowlKiller
----
Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 757
Last seen: 12 years, 22 days
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: MushyMay]
    #1330301 - 02/24/03 04:05 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I suppose that the elite people who are responsible for this mess are going to continue to do with it what they have been doing with it. That is paying off media, buying stock in many companies, militarizing the police forces, living well beyond wealth, etc. etc. You know these politicians are not just wealthy, they are opulently rich. It is sick. I read that Donald Rumsfeld(sp?) had a net worth of something like 250 million. Anyway, America has plenty of money. I think one of the excuses is that the govt. is saving money in a rainy day kind of way. You know like a business would. And that makes sense for a business to do because you conver your losses or what not from year to year, and things can go up or down. But the govt. is not supposed to be a part of the private sector. It is not supposed to be run for profit. So the thing is that if there is a rainy day, then you tax the people to cover the problem. A business can not tax anyone, so there should be rainy day funds. The govt. can tax, so there is no reason to horde money.

Just look at Bush's proposed "stimulate the economy plan" Its bullshit! I know that many many members of congress know this and I hope it does not go through. The fact is if the bush administration really wanted to stimulate the eco it could be done by spending some of the money in this country.

anyway another clear and good website to check out related to all this is

cafrman.com --very clear, and very nice webpage--


--------------------
----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: MushyMay]
    #1330389 - 02/24/03 04:53 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

The military. Secret weapons programs. The war on drugs. Shit like Area 51.
Tribute to appease the space whales that are coming to eat humanity.


Who knows.. they might be sitting on it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: Anonymous]
    #1330748 - 02/24/03 07:25 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Under the conditions, which hereafter must be met, that you are a citizen of the United States of America in posession of at least two forms of state or federally issued identification and know the form number of the file you wish to see, the word "is" shall be defined as a verb. 




Nicely worded!  Are you a lawyer?  :grin: 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 446
Loc: Vatican City
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: BowlKiller]
    #1330810 - 02/24/03 07:54 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

You forget however, that the federal reserve is not a US Government institiution. It is a Privately Owned collection of "Banks". The money they create is not backed by any other currency other than the Dept that the US Government owes them. That is why we have a national debt; it keeps our economic system alive. If we pull the plug and nullify our obligation to pay the dept, our money is completly worthless (more so than it is now).

Food for thought: The govenment wants a $100 bill. They say "Federal Reserve, give us $100." Federal Reserve goes and spends $10 (yes ten, not one hundred) on printing the bill and says "Here you go! Now don't forget you owe us the $100 plus interest." Government and Sheeple respond in unison "Yes, O' holy master of our economic system." --Get it? It is a scam, we the people are being ripped off. Lets go back to gold and/or silver standards


--------------------



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBowlKiller
----
Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 757
Last seen: 12 years, 22 days
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1333111 - 02/25/03 03:45 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hey Jesus, when are you going to return to the earth and establish your unshakable kingdom and crush all human government. I am looking forward to your return very very much.

Yes it is a scam. And its a scam on top of a scam. You know the Fed. Reserve uses one scam and does what you described. Then the govt. does another scam which I mentioned. So that way they insure that the economic future of the country will go to shit, while the choice few enjoy wealth beyond reason.



--------------------
----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 446
Loc: Vatican City
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Government Hits $6.4 Trillion Debt Limit [Re: BowlKiller]
    #1333648 - 02/25/03 08:20 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Don't you know that all government is put in place by Your Holy Father? Government is here to carry out His rightous plan. Its just too bad that you aren't one of the elite, because obviously, you lower creatures arn't included in the future. :smile:

Have a nice eternity
jssmthrfcknchrst 


--------------------



Edited by JssMthrFcknChrst (02/25/03 08:47 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Deep in Debt, Deep in Danger Prosgeopax 631 4 01/29/05 08:31 PM
by Le_Canard
* Government Debt ? The Greatest Threat to National Security Ancalagon 514 3 10/26/04 05:31 PM
by RandalFlagg
* Wasting No Time -- White House: Debt Ceiling Must Be Raised FrankieJustTrypt 630 16 11/04/04 08:22 PM
by Evolving
* An article from April 4, 1999 on the U.S. federal debt
RandalFlagg
513 5 01/22/05 11:53 AM
by RandalFlagg
* The US Fed says it will buy more than $1 trillion worth of debt
( 1 2 all )
lonestar2004 1,624 28 03/19/09 07:40 PM
by AmericanPsycho
* Do you "like" the US government?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
trendalM 2,420 63 07/22/04 08:36 PM
by Evolving
* Legitimate Functions of Government silversoul7 1,053 19 05/06/03 04:56 PM
by I_Fart_Blue
* How much government?
( 1 2 3 all )
MetaShroom 2,215 55 05/20/04 06:20 AM
by luvdemshrooms

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
1,797 topic views. 1 members, 2 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.128 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.