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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 584
H20 pH is really 5 or so?!
    #968029 - 10/17/02 03:55 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Ok I don't know if this should be in the OTD, but i just found out in the today that pure water may not be pH 7. That is some wierd stuff. I noticed that the water coming out of our distilled faucet was pHing low. i re-calibrated the pH meter and tried again. This time I tested the distilled water and an unopened bottle of Sigma's molecular grade water that is void of everything... both were around 5.5. Anybody want to take a stab at an explanation? i aplologize .. I dont know where this post goes.


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OfflineMsPacMan
Stranger

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,054
Loc: Florida, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: H20 pH is really 5 or so?! [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #968400 - 10/17/02 10:20 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I have no clue what you are talking about, i dont know much about ph levels, but you avatar is funny. Good luck.
de-=-


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: H20 pH is really 5 or so?! [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #968467 - 10/17/02 10:51 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)



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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2,791
Loc: Bowels of HELL
Re: H20 pH is really 5 or so?! [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #968712 - 10/17/02 12:52 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Depending on where you live can effect the ph of water . Most bottled waters , especially distilled have gone through several processes that lower the ph , that is not the goal , but removing alkaline based minerals has this effect . It is not bad , we use medically sterilized water , used for diluting medications prior to injection , this water is in ph range of 5.8 - 7.0 . All our stuff seems to love it so far .
If you drop below 5.0 , is time to be concerned .


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Edited by tripndicular (10/17/02 12:53 PM)


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Offlinedrenaline
shroomitist

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 81
Loc: A Moon of Jupiter
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: H20 pH is really 5 or so?! [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #970241 - 10/17/02 08:14 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

PURE water is always pH 7 due to it's chemical dissociation properties.

H20 ----> H+ & OH-

for the molar concentrations of water, hydrogen ion and hydroxide the following law always applies:

[H+] [OH-] / [H20] = 10^-14

so starting with pure water, you must always have equal concentrations of [H+] and [OH-] due to the disociation of water.

[H+] = [OH-] = 10^-7

or a pH of 7


Pure water has no buffering capacity: there is nothing in the water to hold the pH steady. This makes the pH of pure water very sensitive to contaminants. While distilation and filtering usually gets rid of something like 99.99% of contaminants...some will always get through. These contaminants have a big impact on the pH.

Natural waters usually have multi-protic carbonates in them which buffer the water and stabilize the pH in the 6-7 range through a series of acid-base reactions.

Hope that at least something here makes sense to someone


Edited by drenaline (10/17/02 08:16 PM)


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Registered: 04/02/01
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Re: H20 pH is really 5 or so?! [Re: drenaline]
    #970387 - 10/17/02 09:14 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

yes......... lots and looking into the subject further I found that sigma's double distilled molecular grade water is such because it is free of all enzymes like DNases and RNasesand almost all foriegn material. So it is not really pure water, just double distilled ( very close to pure) molecular grade water good for molecular lab applications. Thanks i was thinking, though that it might have had something to do with the dipole moments in the water molecule itself. This would give the water a net positive or negative charge at certain points in time. This could affect the way the electrode reads the pH. Any thoughts?


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Offlinedrenaline
shroomitist

Registered: 10/06/02
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Loc: A Moon of Jupiter
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: H20 pH is really 5 or so?! [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #970425 - 10/17/02 09:46 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I dont think the molecular diapole moments would really come into play here...electrodes are on a much larger scale and it would take billions and billions of water molecules perfectly alligned to cause that kind of discrepencancy. I don't really know a whole lot about how pH electrodes work...but perhaps PURE water gives it nothing to read and causes inaccurate readings???? Absolutely pure water does not conduct electricity...If it is uses current through water this could cause error. You might try testing the water with litmus paper or some other kind of indicator and see what kind of results you get.

Also...CO2 in the air dissolves into water wherever the water contacts the air. CO2 dissociates in it's aqueous form and becomes acidic. If the water you are using is stored in any kind of open container for a long period of time, the CO2 will acidify the water....without any buffers in the water at all, this would drive down the pH. (I could calculate the resultant pH exactly, but I dont really feel like doing that much work!) Test the water just after it is filtered if you can and see if that makes a difference.


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Offlinedrenaline
shroomitist

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 81
Loc: A Moon of Jupiter
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: H20 pH is really 5 or so?! [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #970452 - 10/17/02 09:59 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Upon further research, I think it is probably CO2 diffusing into the water. Pure water will fall to a pH of...you guessed it...around 5.5 as normal atmosperic levels of CO2 come to equilibrium with the air. In terms of using the water for growing purposes...don't sweat it. The water will buffer out with addition of almost anything.


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 584
Re: H20 pH is really 5 or so?! [Re: drenaline]
    #970508 - 10/17/02 10:20 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

ok, cool, I wasn't gonna use that water for growing. That stuff is around $35 a liter!! So it's the CO2, huh. Thern you would need an inert environment to get the elusive pH neutral water.. sheesh. i was just curious cuz it came up at work. Thanks for the info


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Offlinedrenaline
shroomitist

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 81
Loc: A Moon of Jupiter
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: H20 pH is really 5 or so?! [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #970569 - 10/17/02 10:36 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah...and you'd have a hard time finding a room without CO2!!

CO2 forms carbonic acid (H2CO3) which in turn forms bicarbonate (HCO3-) which in turn forms carbonate (CO32-). So for each molecule of CO2 dissolved into water...you can get up to two H+ (acid) ions depending on the pH . This is called the carbonate system and it is pretty much involved in all water chemistry. I can't believe I didnt figure out that one right off the bat.


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