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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9668425 -

Madtowntripper said:
You have to think the Mccain camp did some digging and found those allegations to be completely baseless.

I can't see any Republican hack passing up a chance to throw around some smears.

If they were true, you would have heard them everywhere.


Yeah, that was awful nice of McCain to let it slide.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: TGRR]
    #9668434 -

In any case, Bob Barr or any other candidate could probably challenge it too.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: zouden]
    #9668464 -

Could they still?

Since they aren't a candidate any longer I would think they just revert back to the "average citizen" status cited in the court ruling.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: zouden]
    #9668466 -

zouden said:
In any case, Bob Barr or any other candidate could probably challenge it too.


Hush.  You'll have the conspiracy freaks slashing their wrists with Occam's Razor.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9668479 -

Yes it's a bit late in the game to be challenging Obama's eligibility. I'm 99% sure that nothing further will ever develop. There won't be any more court challenges which means Obama has no obligation to provide any more evidence.

I guess this will just become another urban legend. But not a very interesting one.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: zouden]
    #9668488 -

zouden said:
Yes it's a bit late in the game to be challenging Obama's eligibility. I'm 99% sure that nothing further will ever develop. There won't be any more court challenges which means Obama has no obligation to provide any more evidence.

I guess this will just become another urban legend. But not a very interesting one.


Yeah, but we're going to hear about it for as long as we heard about the whole "911 Truth" business. 

Tiresome.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9668494 -

TGRR said:
johnm214 said:
This isn't true.  Please name the lower courts that have been satisfied that he is a citizen?  A citation to the order or decision please.



It sure as fuck is true.

Here ya go, Spanky:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/11/26/1689515.aspx


I asked for the opinion or order that backs up your claim of what the courts have decided.  You've not provided that.  New stories aren't law and they don't prove your point even if they back up what you claim- which I don't think it even does anyways.

  If you don't know the citation a link to the opinion/order and the page number is fine too.

Did you even read the opinion or that news story?  Quote whatever your relying upon as I can't find it.  If its not from the opinion I'll presume you can't find support for what you said either.  You may also want to read up on 12(b)(6) motions to discover why what you claimed is silly.

Quote:
Your inability to follow a thread is not my problem.  Sorry.


You've not made any clear points with the disputed statements and certainly none of relevance as I've explained.  Your hubris isn't helpful.  If you don't want to communicate then stop posting.  Allusions to my infirmities aren't helpful and are against forum rules.

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: johnm214]
    #9668534 -

johnm214 said:
I asked for the opinion or order that backs up your claim of what the courts have decided.  You've not provided that.  New stories aren't law and they don't prove your point even if they back up what you claim-

(further pedantic crap deleted for space considerations)




Go find someone else to play games with, Opie. 

You were just owned.  Deal with it.

TGRR,
Is very much amused.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: johnm214]
    #9668539 -

johnm214 said:
If you don't want to communicate then stop posting. 




--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: zouden]
    #9668553 -

zouden said:
Yes it's a bit late in the game to be challenging Obama's eligibility. I'm 99% sure that nothing further will ever develop. There won't be any more court challenges which means Obama has no obligation to provide any more evidence.

I guess this will just become another urban legend. But not a very interesting one.


There's no way this is the end.  Sounds like you've never been bored enough to do searches on president's names in the federal court system.


People sue presidents all the time for implanting within them mind control devices that communicate with aliens... and other serious business- you don't think anyone of them will challenge their eligibility for office?

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: johnm214]
    #9668563 -

Sure, but all those claims will be knocked down for the same reason.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: johnm214]
    #9668568 -

johnm214 said:
There's no way this is the end.  Sounds like you've never been bored enough to do searches on president's names in the federal court system.


People sue presidents all the time for implanting within them mind control devices that communicate with aliens... and other serious business- you don't think anyone of them will challenge their eligibility for office?


And they'll get laughed out of the court clerk's office.

As they deserve, for wasting everyone's time with their tinfoil hat crap.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: zouden]
    #9668574 -

zouden said:
Sure, but all those claims will be knocked down for the same reason.


They'll never even see a judge.

EDIT:  Until their competency hearing, that is.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

Edited by TGRR (01/24/09 12:56 AM)

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: TGRR]
    #9668631 -

TGRR said:
johnm214 said:
There's no way this is the end.  Sounds like you've never been bored enough to do searches on president's names in the federal court system.


People sue presidents all the time for implanting within them mind control devices that communicate with aliens... and other serious business- you don't think anyone of them will challenge their eligibility for office?


And they'll get laughed out of the court clerk's office.

As they deserve, for wasting everyone's time with their tinfoil hat crap.


Not a fan of the first amendment or the controlling case law?

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: johnm214]
    #9669135 -

johnm214 said:
TGRR said:
johnm214 said:
There's no way this is the end.  Sounds like you've never been bored enough to do searches on president's names in the federal court system.


People sue presidents all the time for implanting within them mind control devices that communicate with aliens... and other serious business- you don't think anyone of them will challenge their eligibility for office?


And they'll get laughed out of the court clerk's office.

As they deserve, for wasting everyone's time with their tinfoil hat crap.


Not a fan of the first amendment or the controlling case law?


The first amendment gives you the right to file frivolous lawsuits?

Is that what you're trying to say, there?


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: TGRR]
    #9670912 -

No and I didn't.  I said you must not be a fan of the first amendment and the associated case law if you conclude its good that lawsuits be dismissed by a clerk that has no constitutional authority to do so.  A clerk is not the court.  You have a right to your day in court.  If a clerk dismisses your lawsuit that right has been violated.

I also don't know what your response that I"ve been owned is to mean.  You've not even shown the portion of the story that backs up your claim, let alone provided the citation I've asked for.  Obama has not been ruled anything by those courts, and your failure to show such seems to concede the point.  In the future, address your replies to the point and not to my personality or me being owned or pedantic or whatever else you've been stating.  Its irrelevant and against the rules.

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: johnm214]
    #9670932 -

johnm214 said:
No and I didn't.  I said you must not be a fan of the first amendment and the associated case law if you conclude its good that lawsuits be dismissed by a clerk that has no constitutional authority to do so. 


So, your opinion is that, once the court has made a decision, it should have to listen to each and every re-filing by the pissed off losers of that decision, even if no additional evidence or circumstances come up?

Interesting.  Other than a completely paralyzed judiciary, is there anything else you'd like to change?


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: TGRR]
    #9670952 -

No, again I didn't say that.

I did say that a clerk is not the court and that therefore if the clerk refuses to file or dismisses a lawsuit that your first amendment rights have been violated.  It means you've never presented your case to the court at all.


You don't have a right to a court's reconsideration per the constitution.  You do have a right to present your grievance to them.  I've no problem with res judicata, I do have a problem with prefering a clerk act autonomously- especially in dispositive matters  or those that haven't been presented to nor reviewed by the court.

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: johnm214]
    #9670974 -

johnm214 said:
No, again I didn't say that.

I did say that a clerk is not the court and that therefore if the clerk refuses to file or dismisses a lawsuit that your first amendment rights have been violated.  It means you've never presented your case to the court at all.



If the clerk is directed by the judiciary to eliminate suits already decided upon, and that clerk does so within the constraints issued by the judge in question, where is the problem?

The alternative, of course, is to have each judge spend 100 hours/week examining 30-40 bogus filings.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: Obama Flubbing The Oath [Re: TGRR]
    #9671031 -

In case your rating isn't just trolling and you really don't understand why the case you've obliquely referred to in your news story doesn't establish that the courts' have ruled obama is eligible, I'll explain it here, again.


You'll note the action was dismissed for lack of subject matter jurisdiction.  I've quoted the portions previously declaring that the action was dismissed on that ground (as to the eligibility stuff) and that hte actual truth of the allegation was irrelevant.

Since you seem to have not read the opinion nor availed yourself to the rules on motions to dismiss I cited earlier, here's the standard which the court rules on such motions under:
Quote:
"Where the challenge is facial, as Obama and the DNC's is here, courts must take the well-pleaded facts of the complaint as true and must draw all inferences in a manner most favorable to the plaintiff..."

  See page 6 of the opinion


The court was bound by the rules and the case law to consider the complaint's facts as true.  The court did so and ruled, as excerpted earlier, that the factual allegations were irrelevant as to whether the plaintiff had suffered sufficient injury to give the court jurisdicition over the case. 

The court presumed Obama wasn't eligible as alleged in teh complaint and dismissed on jurisdictional grounds.  You'll note no part of the opinion makes any findings and that the court had no jurisdiction to anyways by its own order and by the procedural and constitutional rules which would have prohibited such prior to the case proceeding on the merits.


Just in case you really didn't understand what was going on here.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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