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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #9440518 -

Eat all your meat I don't care, I'm just saying I feel better than I ever have.  I can exercise longer, harder-- this type of eating has so much more energy to it.  I am not really against meat, but conventional meat has 10x the pesticides in it than on conventional produce.  And organic meat is too expensive for me to eat often, so I must live within my means.  Furthermore for the reasons I have described I like to get most of my protein from vegetables. 

As for some science on the alkaline vs acidic diets here is a link for an article about a recent study which showed that a more alkaline diet helped to protect bones:
http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Fruit-and-veg-may-boost-bone-health-study

I often eat a bunch of broccoli in a day, lets look at the data:
This is 608g of broccoli that provides 17gs of protein, maybe 1/3 of the intake I need.  Now this also gives me:
900+% Vitamin C, 700+% Vitamin K, 77% Vitamin A 29% calcium just to name a few of the micro nutrients that this food is packed with.

So why would you eat a pound of broccoli as opposed to the few ounces of chicken is as I said before the other nutrients, which are more important than protein in building healthy muscles.

RNA is very important for health and muscle building as well, but everyone ignores nucleic acids.  What I am trying to show is that your body doesn't need so much protein that you must eat concentrated proteins so often.  By getting adequate protein from greens you give your body so much more, which is really what it needs to grow bigger and stronger. 

People always focus on the macro nutrients for bodybuilding, protein, carbs, fats and focus on getting those in good quantities.  But really you should be focusing on getting all your micro nutrients in the right quantities, and if you are doing this the macro nutrients should be in order as well.  Keeping in mind of course to keep the fat and protein at lower levels.

Lastly, I think cooked meat is bad for the most part.  At higher temperatures the fats for free radicals, the proteins will denature, but other bonds, foreign to the body's digestive mechanisms can be formed which causes parts of the meat to go undigested.

Are digestive system is still meant for raw food, and we should embrace that.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9440809 -

"It's just basic body chemistry"?  Sorry, that is not a source. Show me a scientific study which suggests that hemp protein is acidifying. 

Claiming that broccoli is a superior protein source is simply baseless.  Again, I'm all for broccoli...it's a terrific food, and I quite enjoy it.  However, there are MANY other foods which are higher in protein.  I used egg white as an example because my first example was whole eggs.  I wanted to demonstrate that removing the high-fat yolk would reduce the calories, yet retain the protein.

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #9440817 -

Quote:
The whole concept that food causes an alkalinization of the body, and it's claimed health benefits are unsupported pseudoscience.


Mmm...no, it's not.  Our bodily fluids do have a pH balance, and what we eat & drink alters this balance.

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Veritas]
    #9442084 -

I understand that we have a PH. While we are a product of what we eat, we are also a product of our movement, our exposure to the environment, and our status regarding bacteria and virus loads. All of these factors contribute to this ever bit as much as our food. We are more than just what we eat. We are also what we do, see, hear, and are exposed to. There are too many variables to narrow it down to just food. PH is a reflection of our general overall health. There is no scientific evidence that we should seek or avoid certain foods for this alkalinization effect. From Wikipedia:

Quote:
Blood alkalinity (pH) is not significantly affected by diet,[4][5] except in extreme pathological cases (e.g., diabetic ketoacidosis). Without any research supporting the claims made by these diets, many qualified dietitians, nutritionists and other health care professionals have not recommended these diets to their patients.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_diet

I also note that the proponents of this "theory" cannot agree on many of the foods that have this effect. I need to see research supporting this to believe it, but I cannot find any. Even Andrew Weil...a new age health guy (and a Doctor and scientist) discounts this as nonsense in his works. The whole concept was popularized by "Dr." Robert O Young, the author of The PH Miracle, who can be discounted as a fraud. Wikipedia notes that he has been charged with felony counts of practicing medicine without a license.

Quote:
Robert Young is a proponent of the alkaline diet. He claims that health depends primarily on proper balance between an alkaline and acid environment in the human body; according to this theory, when the blood becomes too acidic, the body will take whatever action necessary to regulate the acid-alkaline balance of the blood. According to Young, in this environment the body will begin to break down and show signs of disease including cancer, obesity, osteoporosis, yeast overgrowth, flu, skin disorders, etc.[4] The claims underlying alkaline diets like Young's are believed to be medically implausible, and there is no scientific evidence that such diets are beneficial.[5] According to the National Council Against Health Fraud, a 2005 MEDLINE search indicated that Young had not published any research in recognized scientific journals, and that none of his graduate degrees was from an accredited educational institution.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Young_(author)

This whole field is just as much nonsense as other pseudosciences like creationism.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (12/16/08 10:20 AM)

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Chronic7]
    #9442621 -

Why would it only start to work after a couple months? I could see maybe a week or two...but months?

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: fazdazzle]
    #9442978 -

As for the science on alkaline diet why didn't you look at the link I gave?  It was a study published on the topic this year, its in my last post.

Ok now for the basic body chemistry of breaking down proteins for energy (from my human physiology text, on Hydrogen Ion Regulation-which is pH homeostasis):

"The body also produces organic and inorganic acids from other sources than CO2.  The are collectively termed nonvolatile acids.  These include phosphoric acid and sulfuric acid, generated mainly by the catabolism [break down] of proteins, as well as lactic acid and several other organic acids.  Dissociation of all these acids yields anions and H+.  But simultaneously, the metabolism of a variety of organic anions utilizes H+ and produces bicarbonate.  Thus the metabolism of "nonvolatile" solutes both generates and utilizes H+.  With the high-protein diet typical in the US, the generation of nonvolatile acids predominates in most people, with an average net H+ production of 40-80mmol.

-Vander's Human Physiology, 11th edition

Along with these acids that form during protein catabolization for energy it must loose the amino group from the amino acids to form a keto acid.  The lost ammonia (which is very toxic) must be taken to the liver to be turned into urea giving it a toxic burden.  Now my text book continues to show the Renal (Kidney's) removal of the acids, so they are burdened as well with the removal of H+.

Now yes your body is meant to keep homeostasis, but if you are constantly having a net gain of H+ every day your body will need to do things like get ca++ from bones to keep the pH balance, as was shown may be the case in the study I linked.

So as I have shown quite simply, too much protein causes toxic overload of ammonia on the liver, and brings a net gain of acid as quoted from my text book.

Huehuecoyotl, there is lots of sicence on alkaline balance in the body, like that exert from my text book.  Here is the link I gave before for the recent study on acidic diets causing bone loss: http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Fruit-and-veg-may-boost-bone-health-study

Your blood's pH is optimal in the alkaline range, and as I have shown eating too much protein, along with the toxic ammonia load, also brings a net gain of acid.  Your body has to constantly struggle to buffer your fluids to keep the optimal pH it needs.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9443887 -

Quote:
As for the science on alkaline diet why didn't you look at the link I gave?  It was a study published on the topic this year, its in my last post.


You merely linked to an article on a special interest web site. No direct results of any study were shown. A scientific journal with the scientist's actual results shown would be a "study". Your statements about protein don't stand up under any condition. Our societies most elite athletes demonstrate that this is bunk on TV everyday. All of these people have high protein intakes. I myself consume up to 250g of protein a day. Since I started this practice (as well as strength and endurance training) I have stopped getting minor illnesses like common colds even. My body should be so acid that I am dying..lol. However this is also anecdotal and has no real validity to anyone but me.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #9444095 -

250g of protein is ridiculous, how much do you weigh? 

Look I can't link the study now, but next time I go to my campus I will look up the article with my university access and link you the results if you won't believe what many news articles you can find on the topic.

Here's another link to a different website which talks more about the study:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_72748.html

Basically the experimental group was given bicarbonate (which greens release into the body) and it was shown to reduce the amount of calcium lost from bones.

I am saying its healthier to eat fruit and veggies, you can't argue with that.

As to how much protein you consume I want to know how you can take that much in per day, what do you eat?

Your body is not using that much protein every day to build muscle or make proteins for every cell, it is being burned as energy.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9444336 -

The people in the article took a powerful alkali chemical...they did not consume fruits and vegetables. The difference is like the difference between coca leaves and crack. The chemical is concentrated beyond what is found in nature. No shit if it made the blood alkaline.

I am 6'4" and weigh 225 pounds. I train with heavy kettlebells over 70lbs one handed. I also do yoga and martial arts. The amount of protein I eat is average for an athlete of my weight, as a matter of fact I eat much less protein for my weight than most strength athletes.

Quote:
I am saying its healthier to eat fruit and veggies, you can't argue with that.


I eat lots of fruit and vegetables (raw and cooked)...they are healthy, but we need more than vitamins and antioxidants. All of our body's tissues are composed of protein. We need a healthy balance of all foods.

I eat 2500 calories a day. I east 40% protein, 30% carbs, 30% fat. I eat mostly whole foods...organic when I can get it. I eat from all of the food groups daily. I usually take a protein shake after my workout. This typically has 40g of protein and 20g of carb. This isn't anything beyond modern sports nutrition, or out of the ordinary in any way.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #9444976 -

Yea your really big, so its not too large, but 40% from protein is just way too much.  Your body can use 20% max, the rest you are burning for energy.  You can easily get all your protein from vegetables and algae etc.  I know its the norm for a lot of bodybuilders/athletes, but it is over loading the body with protein, it gives a huge ammonia load to the liver.

As for bicarbonate, did you even read what I said, bicarbonate forms from the digestion of greens.  In an experiment like this they can't tell people to just eat greens, and giving them a strict diet is even harder.  They wanted to stimulate the vegetables in a very repeatable way, and a simple bicarbonate pill would do the trick.  Now please spare us the "powerful alkali chemical" nonsense, sure it is an alkali chemical, but it is the most important buffer in the human body and hey we get lots from GREENS, don't pretend like its some powerful foreign substance.  The study is just the start into research on this topic.

You said your post workout shake is 40g protein 20g carbs.  Unless you have so much stored carbs that you don't need to replace much after a workout most of that protein is going to be burned to restore glycogen reserves.  You need to find an optimal protein intake, where you have enough carbs for fuel, otherwise your protein will be used as energy, and not what you want, building muscle.

If it works for you that's great, but eating a diet so high in protein and fat is not going to be healthy in the long run.  The healthiest populations, like that of Okinawa, eat 60-80% carbs 10-20% fat/protein.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9445185 -

There is no evidence that large protein loads are damaging to the liver or kidneys where healthy adults are concerned. I know it is fashionable among vegetarians and vegans to claim that we don't need much protein, but there is a reason bodybuilders and strength trainers use a lot of protein...it works. Though I do not body build the pages of fitness magazines attest to the fact that large amounts of protein build a lot of muscle in combination with the proper exercise protocols. true many of the bodybuilder types use steroids (and up to 500g of protein a day), but if one could not utilize that much protein the muscles would never form...even with steroids. Any sports diet book will tell you that you need at least 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight to build muscle efficiently. You can maintain it on 1g per kilo, but when you build it you need that much.

Quote:
You can easily get all your protein from vegetables and algae etc.


Vegan sources CAN provide enough protein if food selection is very careful. Algae is great and high in protein, BUT I don't fancy eating green powders for my meals. I am not a vegan so I don't need to limit myself to only vegetable foods. I use what is practical.

Quote:
The healthiest populations, like that of Okinawa, eat 60-80% carbs 10-20% fat/protein.



They also have Okinawan genetics. There are many factors beyond diet.

Quote:
eating a diet so high in protein and fat is not going to be healthy in the long run


I have researched this thoroughly and can find no evidence that my diet is damaging.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #9445930 -

Diet is much more important than genetics.  For example a genetic disposition to obesity can easily be avoided by healthy eating, especially in childhood.  If you put anyone on an Okinawan diet they would get the same benefits of better health.  Other populations were cited as well for being exceptionally healthy, I can't recall them now, but they all followed similar diets.  Anyways I don't care to argue, I shared my view.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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Re: Hemp Protein? [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9448532 -

...and lots of hard work or exercise, maybe a clean environment to grow, clean water...there are many factors...diet is just ONE factor. However the Okinawans are a studied genetic anomaly.


The second highest life span is with the people of Sardinia. They eat mostly protein and fat...seafood and olive oil. They do eat local produce, but the bulk of their food is oceanic. They are also a studied genetic anomaly.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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