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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: Redstorm]
    #9280143 -

>> > one more time... it will be a $10 trillion bailout before it's all over with, the only people getting hurt in the deal is us
> I'm not entirely sure what these bailouts have to do with Obama.

The bailouts, once they get started, are not going to stop... Obama, as president elect, is going to have to deal with the fallout from all the crap and I don't believe his "yes we can" hype is going to be anything more than a nice "read my lips" soundbite when the butcher bill comes due.  I will be pleased if I am wrong, but I wouldn't bet on it happening.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: Seuss]
    #9280215 -

You don't think Obama knows the condition of the economy? No matter how fucked up anybody here thinks he is (I don't give a shit one way or another about any politicioans) he probably knows the current condition better then anybody who's ever been to this website. You think if it were as fucked and impossible to improve upon as ome people are saying then he would take his job right now? I don't think he would. I'm sure that there can be something to fix some stupid problem that has aroused over money. Money really is nothing more then paper that's why I said they should just print it already. It is truly as simple as that. America as a nation won't collapse or anything because a bunch of dumbasses fucked up with some money, contrary to what it seems like some people think.


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Edited by LightShedder (11/20/08 07:14 PM)

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: MHbound]
    #9280305 -

MHbound said:
On a lighter note it would allow more jobs



what would allow more jobs is heavy tariffs on the parts
coming into the US to be put into the cars, haw badly did it
hurt saginaw to half their jobs shipped to canada and mexico,
seems the US automakers could care less about providing jobs
for the people in their largest market, what about facilities
in Atlanta that Ford closed and another 13 plants nation wide

these companies have as of yet only looked out for the profit
margin, they've stopped providing gobs for the US and started
providing jobs for everyone else,  seems those tactics have
failed them and now they expect us to look out for them


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: LightShedder]
    #9280346 -

> he probably knows the current condition better then anybody who's ever been to this website

You you might want to look up posts made the user Economist.  I would put my money on him over Obama regarding the economy any day of the week.  Regardless, pointless as I wasn't speaking towards Obama's knowledge... simply stating that he has a hell of a mess brewing and I don't think good intentions or nifty catch phrases are going to be of much help.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: LightShedder]
    #9280383 -

LightShedder said:
You don't think Obama knows the condition of the economy? No matter how fucked up anybody here thinks he is  he probably knows the current condition better then anybody who's ever been to this website.


that must explains why his vote is always 'present' regarding
serious economic issues or why he voted against fixing
problems in 2005 before it go to this state, yeah, he sure
seems to know what he's doing... I wonder if it's because
he's doing it for Bank of America or Countrywide Mortgage or
for Fannie and Freddie, or maybe it's just because they're
lining his pockets and the only economy he knows is his own


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: Seuss]
    #9280511 -

Seuss said:
> he probably knows the current condition better then anybody who's ever been to this website

You you might want to look up posts made the user Economist.  I would put my money on him over Obama regarding the economy any day of the week.  Regardless, pointless as I wasn't speaking towards Obama's knowledge... simply stating that he has a hell of a mess brewing and I don't think good intentions or nifty catch phrases are going to be of much help.


I don't think Economist would be any better/worse then Obama. When a lot of us were parroting RPs predictions about this coming, Economist was telling us that he and we were wrong for thinking so. Remember, this was the guy who supported Ben Bernakes actions, the unregulated hedge fund markets, refused to admit that the Federal Reserve banks were privately owned, and had "Greed is Good" under his avatar of Gordon Gecko. In other words, Economist supported the system that helped to get us into this mess.

Like Obama is going to do anything other then lean on his economic advisor's for what to do. Who are his economic advisers anyway? We should be researching them.

Who here said we should just print more money???

That's how you ultimately devalue the dollar and create inflation.


Further, the way our system works, if the Treasury prints more, it has to be loaned out by the Federal reserve banks , with interest. The whole boat gets added to the national debt tax payers are responsible for.

For those left who don't know, the Federal Reserve banks get to buy a dollar bill form the U.S. treasury for 4 cents, before they loan it out at the value of 100 cents plus interest back to the government. Screw any support from me for that money making scam.

The only way I think I would support injecting more currency into the system is for the Treasury to start issuing a new commodity backed currency that competes with Federal Reserve notes.

I'd like to see that one get played out. JFK was in the process of doing just that when he was killed.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9280688 -

Quote:
what would allow more jobs is heavy tariffs on the parts
coming into the US to be put into the cars,


I had been saying that I think we should do that with China regarding all imports coming from there. While we go broke, they have a growing middle class, being supported by us. That's where a lot of our money is going.

next time you go out to the stores, look at just how much is made in China. It ridiculous.

However, I recently read a great paper on the Great Depression. Seems one of the things they tried was raising import tariffs and it back fired. Other countries raised theirs on us, then foreigners stopped buying our stuff in their countries, and even more jobs were lost here.

The paper claimed it was one of the actions that made things worse during the Great Depression.

What could sneakily work is just encouraging Americans to buy American Made whenever they can.

I toyed with the idea of opening up a chain of Made in the U.S. Stores. Realistically, most people will look for the cheapest price for what they want. At the end of the day, look what it has cost us in the back lash of an economy in the shitz.

Speaking of cheap crap from China, catch this. Builders across the nation were using dry wall imported from there. This crap is leaking a gas that eats coper. Wiring that is exposed within the walls and AC coils are eroding quickly. I am one of the lucky recipients of "walls made in China". Lennar has had to replace at least 7 coils in the last two years in my house.

Toxic toys, toxic walls, toxic baby formula,  cheap prices :smile:. GO CHINA! :cheers: :crazy:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9281144 -

If we are going to throw money behind auto manufacturers, I say, put it into this company already. :yesnod: Let them use it to create new jobs mass producing this puppy. :omgawesome: (Make sure to watch the rescue use video. It would have really come in handy on 9/11.)

I saw a show on it the other week. This thing is :awesome: Best part is that NASA has designed the program to direct public air traffic for it. It's all there and ready to go!!!

http://www.moller.com/videos.htm#

Enough of this stoneage crap. Seriously, I had to write a story in 6th grade (circa 1979), on what I thought the future would be like in 2000. I added flying cars. Never would I have imagined that for over the next 30 years, the most noticable changes I would see, between my parents car and the cars of now, be 8 track tape players replaced with CD players.

:bored:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #9281161 -

gettinjiggywithit said:
I toyed with the idea of opening up a chain of Made in the U.S. Stores.


Sam Walton did just that, he had the buying power to do so,
he carried products that he proudly announced were US made
and only when it wasnt possible to find an equivalent made
domestically he'd allow for a foreign product, of course Sam
died and now we have the walmart we know today

Quote:
Toxic toys, toxic walls, toxic baby formula,  cheap prices :smile:. GO CHINA! :cheers: :crazy:


wow... I worked in the steel and lead industry for a period,
apparently it was more cost effective to ship scrap from the
US over to China and Thailand to be processed and then buy it
back in huge coils that are cut to usable size, problem is
the product wasnt as good, the metal had serious flaws,
sometimes you could see bearings that didnt melt and in my
efforts to cut production costs that steel always slowed me down


ya get what you pay for


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #9281352 -

Yeah I know that printing more money would cause a lot of complications in our "system" but I strongly believe the system is stupid and should be simpler. I have yet to research these complications and if it is even possible for a system this large to operate as simple as I would like for it to so I should probably keep my mouth shut about all this "simple" crap lol.


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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: LightShedder]
    #9281364 -

Dude, if we fail in my lifetime...I will commit suicide. I won't be able to handle the change so suddenly. That's my thoughts at this moment.


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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: MHbound]
    #9281422 -

MHbound said:
Dude, if we fail in my lifetime...I will commit suicide. I won't be able to handle the change so suddenly. That's my thoughts at this moment.


Don't equate other peoples failure with yourself. During hard times, lots of new opportunties are created. People staying positive, adaptable and ready to strike can do very well.

As long as you have your health, some good friends and family, you'll be able to manage anything that comes our collective way.

Crisis tend to pull all of the people experiencing it together. Values switch quickly and ussually to where they should have been all along. There is new found power discovered when people remember to co-operate and work together to rebuild.

It could be a remarkable time for many if they stay positive and open to making the best out of whats within them and around them.

We are going to see the best and worst come out of human kind over the next decade. The best is yet to come. This is not something to miss.

Chin up!;)


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #9281461 -

While I agree with everything you just said, especially about crisis pulling everyone together, I'm not sure if I can do it. I'm not old, but I'm at that point in my life where I have to make choices to ensure I have a stable future, otherwise I'll end up nowhere.

I have messed up a lot, I have wasted over 5 years of my life, and now I'm at a intersection where I have to go right, or left. It's not so bad, but with the economy the way it is...I really am about to take the easy way out.

I am honestly preparing myself to start selling drugs again...:rofl:

I guess that shows how motivated I am. In college and everything, but I want the easy way out. I'm lazy as shit.


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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: MHbound]
    #9281619 -

now that I'm unemployed I do 3x as much work and have to pay to
do it, what's the matter with you kids always looking for the
recliner, let the old women have a seat for a change


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: LightShedder]
    #9282106 -

Quote:
Money really is nothing more then paper that's why I said they should just print it already. It is truly as simple as that. America as a nation won't collapse or anything because a bunch of dumbasses fucked up with some money..


Boy are you in for a surprise.

They don't say "Money makes the world go round" for nothing.

And Obama may be smart as can be but I don't know if he has any significant knowledge of economics. He can hire people who do but there is every indication he will hire those who cannot think outside the box.

Right now he seems to be selecting Clinton re-treads who are locked into conventional thinking.

Conventional thinking is what got us into this mess.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #9282225 -

Quote:
Economist supported the system that helped to get us into this mess.


Yeah, funny how he disappeared right around the time the early stages of the crisis became evident to those who are willing to delve deeper than the headlines. Part of me wishes he was here so he could admit how wrong he was. He layed a lot of economic jargon on me and called me "silly" for saying we were in trouble but look at us now.

I don't mind taking some heat for controversial opinions- I just wish more people would develop critical thinking skills or not ditch the ones they have in order to support power groups and -isms.

I did learn a lot from our exchanges which forced me to do some research. I think what a lot of us on this forum are doing, probably unconsciously, is pitting our ideas against others to see which prevails.

What really frightened me was when I came back at him it came down to him saying "Trust us. We are economists." Uh oh. I began to think of the Wizard of Oz and the man behind the curtain and suddenly I spotted the chairman of the Federal Reserve! :grin:

Economists tend to lace their speech with technical jargon.. many times not to make clear but to make murky. Most people find economics boring (which they count on) and lack the desire to penetrate the smoke screen economists use to throw you off their trail.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (11/21/08 12:39 AM)

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9282364 -

Prisoner#1 said:
now that I'm unemployed I do 3x as much work and have to pay to
do it, what's the matter with you kids always looking for the
recliner, let the old women have a seat for a change


Prisoner, I know you don't know anything about me, but let me say that I am far from lazy...I was just kidding.

I work all the time. When I'm not at my job or school I am fixing computers for extra money. I have to pay rent, 2 school loans, etc.

I could see why you say that, but I get out as much as I can with my dogs and so forth. Anyway, I just felt like clearing that up not that it matters.


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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: MHbound]
    #9285673 -

it's ok, I'm not a little old lady and I'm used to standing


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Big 3 Bailout [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9285733 -

Well get used to it...You will never have a couch, or plastic chair at my house.  :evil:

But from the other thread it sounds like my mom has already made her home welcome to your...So, maybe I'll see you one day, but you better get your ass up off my couch so I can sit down. :rofl:


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General Interest > Political Discussion
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