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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9065892 -

Here you assume that you have any idea what motivates an alien (if one exists).  Maybe they don't travel trillions of miles.  Maybe they do a nice wormhole trick, so it's no thing to come and play with wheat.  Maybe their lifespans are so incredibly long that they do seemingly little, such as a crop circle, for such a long journey.  But maybe they are patient as they seed our minds with certain concepts.  :shrug:  I return to my original point, which is that with insufficient knowledge, either stance is silly.  And when you lock yourself into certain paradigms and self-imposed parameters, it may seem logical that aliens would or wouldn't do some things.  But that's called anthropomorphic projection.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9065905 -

Some people want to believe.  Some people don't want to believe.  Some people under-estimate what humans can do.  Some people decide aliens exist.  Some people decide aliens don't exist.  Some people like to guess but never truly decide.

All and everything.

The OP here IMO underestimates human abilities but has made clear he is undecided.  He just thinks its possible aliens did make these complex patterns.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: Ego Death]
    #9065927 -

I know for a fact aliens exist. That is almost unarguable based on the sheer number of places for life TO exist in the universe.

I only have doubts about that life:

A. Evolving to technology levels needed (FAR beyond us)
B. Not kill each other.
C. Exist in the same BLINK OF TIME as us.
D. Find us.
E. Fly allllll the way out here, or wormhole here.
F. Make designs in wheat.

It just seems too... I don't know. Silly?

I'm all for aliens. I just really think IF they came, they'd just eat us, enslave us or ignore us. Not just fart around for 100 years dicking with us. :shrug:

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9065940 -

A.  But we have a relatively young star.  If we used statical chance as a guess then its highly likely that civilizations exist that are far more evolved than us.  So I completely disagree with A and so does all available evidence in both science and Ufology.

Quote:
they'd just eat us, enslave us or ignore us


So you think a more evolved life form with enough technology to to perform interstellar travel would come here to eat us!  Now thats more silly than saying they'd come here to make crop circles!:crazy:

They would most likely:
1. Study us - same as we study all life forms.  Its necessary to intelligence, to study and learn.
2. Monitor us - as we are now performing space travel ourselves / advanced technology with quantum mechanics etc and are thus a potential threat.

I'm pretty sure any "intelligent" creature capable of space travel would do those 2 things.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: Ego Death]
    #9065945 -

Babababa... See B.

Having the technology is great, but living several thousand years with it will be tricky. Just use humans as an example. :shrug:

I'd actually think crop circles were from something other than aliens... something earthbound, but trying to communicate.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9065953 -

Quote:
Just use humans as an example.


Bad example - we've nuked ourselves and we are still going.  Yes theres war but theres also a huge amount of environmentalists wanting to use technology with the planet and have peace instead of war.

Life prevails.  Life isn't designed to destroy itself despite all life being at war.  Its a war of survival of the fittest.


I think they are likely to be human artwork, very good artwork too.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: Ego Death]
    #9065959 -

But life is competition.

By the time humans can reach out to other star systems, we will be looking for resources. If we find some lower lifeform living on a rich world, guess what we do?

We won't be playing in the wheat, that's for sure.

:minigun: :smirk:

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9065965 -

Quote:
By the time humans can reach out to other star systems, we will be looking for resources.


Why do you assume we will need resources from a planet with life on it?  Surely if we have the tech to get there then we will of developed a self sustaining eco system.

We don't need resources now.  This whole oil game is about money and power.  We have the ability to sort this whole planet out using geothermal, solar, sea FREE energies.  We simply don't because the rich prefer to have a hierarchy so they can pay somebody to wipe their bum instead of do it their selves.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: Ego Death]
    #9065970 -

Ego Death said:
This whole oil game is about money and power.  We have the ability to sort this whole planet out using geothermal, solar, sea FREE energies.


I believe the energy required to travel that far will require more than this planet can provide.

We may be stealing suns. :shrug:

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9065977 -

Its possible.

Lol, Sun theft :cool:

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9065991 -

RoosterCogburn said:
I know for a fact aliens exist. That is almost unarguable based on the sheer number of places for life TO exist in the universe.



This is a perfect example of the paradigms we have, that many people live under, but have no clue that it is one of many.

I remember 10 years ago, that the majority of people asked would say "I don't believe in aliens because life needs water to thrive, and a million other factors tweaked to perfection.  Earth is a one-time thing."  Again, with the earth-life projections.  But that encompassing thought was the worldview of the time.  Now, the majority, and mostly those same people say the exact opposite... "life can thrive in all kinds of crazy conditions.  Maybe carbon-based, silicon-based, etc.  Who knows.  Life is most likely everywhere."  It's the assumptions of the times, based on what we think we know, with no clue how big the unknown-factor is.

But I agree with it.  I think, much like a tree grows and then fruits, the universe grows and then peoples (as Ram Dass put it).

But again, back to the anthropomorphic projections.  We think aliens might kill each other at the nuclear stage or any other future stage.  But we only do that because of certain earth-like emotions, that are purely evolutionary defense mechanisms.  Perhaps these aliens didn't face similar threats, or perhaps no threat at all.  Maybe food was abundant, and each alien only gives birth once and then dies immediately. 

We don't know the conditions of their life, external or internal.  We don't know their motivations, desires (if they even have any of these type things), mode of travel, ways of thinking, planetary conditions, etc etc etc.

People guess themselves into corners because it follows their line of logic.  But that line of logic is arising from a human mind, and we are speculating on non-human minds.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9066009 -

Quote:
We may be stealing suns. :shrug:


Michio Kaku invented this classification system for civilizations.  I can't remember perfectly, but I'll at least try as an example.  He said we are a Type 0 civilization.  We haven't even harnessed the power of our weather yet.  A Type I civilization eventually starts harnessing resources of other planets in their solar system.  A Type II harnesses the power of their sun.  Type III, the galaxy.  Type IV the universe, Type V the multiverse, etc.

He's a futurist and theoretical physicist who attempts to guess where technology is going.  This type of thinking leads us to a future where we may not only harness the energy of a star, but we may be able to move stars where we want them, create new solar systems, and even create stars.  It may be our only hope if the ever-expanding universe theory is correct and matter and energy continues to spread out to our heat death.  We might have to cuddle.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9066346 -

RoosterCogburn said:
Sadly, I just think some people WANT to believe so badly for whatever reason, and human imagination is too incredible... I mean that I err on the side of logic as in 'IF aliens came here, WHY would they waste time bending wheat?'.

Humans CAN do it. Humans have admitted doing it. Humans have been filmed doing it. It's become more complicated over a human timeline of 40 or so years.

When an 10 square mile mountainside is ground into a pattern overnight, I'll think super advanced aliens. :shrug:

I mean for having technology advanced enough to evade detection and fly a trillion miles, they sure are pretty boring.


There's also been documented cases where the circles appeared within a 10 minute time frame. Professional engineers said it would have taken them hours just to lay out the design.

No doubt in my mind some are man made. Others seem to be of supernatural origin.

http://www.enlightenedbeings.com/pix/cropcircle9.jpg

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9066406 -

Time and space are illusions created by, but only partly held in place by, the laws of the third dimension.  I believe that when the power of the mind grows stronger than the shackles that bind it, an evolution occurs.  Whether or not man can and will reach this evolution during his waking life, is the question.

I can feel a change of consciousness in myself. Its a different way of thinking, and includes an awareness to the overall strengthening of the super-consciousnesses self awareness.  Sorry if that's confusing.

These highly emotional times and experiences continue to intensify and have had me in deep thought for a very long time.

Weird things are happening everywhere.

I am dreaming of places, then, days or weeks later, I will literally find myself in that same exact physical setting in real life.  It is strange.  Ive had dozens and dozens of lucid dreams where I have been able to use telekinesis, and telepathy at will.  Ive flown into space and viewed the Earth like I was in a spaceship.  I stopped the end of the world.  I saw past lives. Ive been abducted by aliens. I've watched myself die, I've watched the Earth die.  Ive been inserted into terror filled, sadistic, game-like worlds where I am forced to kill or be killed.  I transcended mind by astral projecting from a lucid dream.  Ive seen thousand foot waves.  Ive been in volcanoes.  Ive seen tornadoes that dwarf an F5.  Ive found ancient jewelry and artifacts including a small book that had pictures of beings and the planet or star they hailed from.  This and much more is all happening while I'm dreaming.

Some of these dreams are warnings. Others are just meaningless ventings of extraneous, supplementary thought. And it seems that some are to condition and strengthen my mind to help me reach this evolution that I believe can occur in humanity.

So when I take into consideration the nature of my experiences and the shear size of the universe, it becomes difficult to believe that there isn't some alien out there that has made this evolutionary jump in consciousness.  A jump that results in creation upon thought alone, time warping and instantaneous travel. 

If it is aliens, the message is relatively simple.  We are here and it is time to wake up and save yourselves.


--------------------
"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC

Edited by postanaldrip (10/12/08 01:04 PM)

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: Ego Death]
    #9066645 -

Ego Death said:
A.  But we have a relatively young star.  If we used statical chance as a guess then its highly likely that civilizations exist that are far more evolved than us.  So I completely disagree with A and so does all available evidence in both science and Ufology.

Quote:
they'd just eat us, enslave us or ignore us


So you think a more evolved life form with enough technology to to perform interstellar travel would come here to eat us!  Now thats more silly than saying they'd come here to make crop circles!:crazy:

They would most likely:
1. Study us - same as we study all life forms.  Its necessary to intelligence, to study and learn.
2. Monitor us - as we are now performing space travel ourselves / advanced technology with quantum mechanics etc and are thus a potential threat.

I'm pretty sure any "intelligent" creature capable of space travel would do those 2 things.


Exactly, and not spend their time dicking around with crop circles to impress the Earthlings.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #9066793 -

RoosterCogburn said:
But life is competition.

By the time humans can reach out to other star systems, we will be looking for resources. If we find some lower lifeform living on a rich world, guess what we do?

We won't be playing in the wheat, that's for sure.

:minigun: :smirk:


Unfortunately, this a paradigm that has been built into so many people simply due to the society we all live in.

In reality, life is not competition it is co-existence. Look at nature around you. Everything, and i mean EVERYTHING depends on one another. Right now humans are ignoring that fact, and look at what we are doing to ourselves. We are putting ourselves on a path towards extinction.

An enlightened race would not spread itself out into the galaxy in search for "resources". An enlightened race would learn how to peacefully co-exist with the universe in a way that allows everything to survive. Here on Earth we have the ability to not drain ANY of resources. We have the ability to harness the power of the sun, of the wind, of the ocean, even the earth itself (Geothermal energy). We've just over looked these solutions for so long because its so much easier to just burn up all our oil. People are starting to realize though, that can't last forever.

Once we finally all realize that we don't have to compete to survive, that cooperation and peace is better than rivalries and warfare, than we can finally accomplish all these things.

As for aliens...if they managed to leave their planet and get their butts all the way to Earth, you think they wouldn't have experienced all these things before?? You think wouldn't have learned how to co-exist with their own planet and the rest of the universe? I have to think that if aliens managed to get to Earth, they would have a VERY healthy respect for life, and do whatever  they could in their power to not harm us. Which includes startling the crap out of us by suddenly showing up and saying "Hey...we're some aliens!!"

I think its entirely possible aliens have been communicating with us for a long time. Possibly through abductions, possibly through the internet, hell...maybe even crop circles, or ancient writings. Then again....maybe they haven't even found us yet, and we're all just delusional.


--------------------
Word to your mom.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #9066815 -

BrainChemistry said:
Once we finally all realize that we don't have to compete to survive, that cooperation and peace is better than rivalries and warfare, than we can finally accomplish all these things.


You act as if once every person agrees that cooperation and peace is better than warfare, that there will be no war ever again.

This is false.  In the first place, everybody will agree with you that peace is preferable to warfare.  But we still have wars.  Sometimes war is necessary, to prevent starvation due to lack of resources; sometimes it's necessary to protect one's self against other marauding tribes.  It's not pretty, but it's the way of life.  Just look at Nature sometime.  It's kill or be killed.

Secondly, suppose everyone did agree that peace and cooperation was better.  Then we no longer need armies; we no longer need a police force; etc etc.  Then it all it takes is for one bad egg to do no work, start stealing from others, and basically scavenge off the good work and efforts of others.

There is no single, fixed-point evolutionary optimization to the problem of good vs evil.  A society wholly composed of scavengers will be torn apart by its own chaos.  A society wholly composed to good, cooperative people like those you so idealistically describe will rapidly degenerate back into normalcy once a scavenger ratio appears.

In reality, good needs evil (and evil needs good) to survive.  There is no such thing as a perfect, war-free, competition-less world no matter how hard you try to believe it.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9066860 -

Quote:
There's also been documented cases where the circles appeared within a 10 minute time frame.


Where are these documents?

I'm honestly interested.  Although I believe its highly likely ETs monitor and visit Earth - I've not seen any evidence that ET/UFO phenomena is actually related to the crop picture phenomena.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: deCypher]
    #9066951 -

The Cypher said:
BrainChemistry said:
Once we finally all realize that we don't have to compete to survive, that cooperation and peace is better than rivalries and warfare, than we can finally accomplish all these things.


You act as if once every person agrees that cooperation and peace is better than warfare, that there will be no war ever again.

This is false.  In the first place, everybody will agree with you that peace is preferable to warfare.  But we still have wars.  Sometimes war is necessary, to prevent starvation due to lack of resources; sometimes it's necessary to protect one's self against other marauding tribes.  It's not pretty, but it's the way of life.  Just look at Nature sometime.  It's kill or be killed.

Secondly, suppose everyone did agree that peace and cooperation was better.  Then we no longer need armies; we no longer need a police force; etc etc.  Then it all it takes is for one bad egg to do no work, start stealing from others, and basically scavenge off the good work and efforts of others.

There is no single, fixed-point evolutionary optimization to the problem of good vs evil.  A society wholly composed of scavengers will be torn apart by its own chaos.  A society wholly composed to good, cooperative people like those you so idealistically describe will rapidly degenerate back into normalcy once a scavenger ratio appears.

In reality, good needs evil (and evil needs good) to survive.  There is no such thing as a perfect, war-free, competition-less world no matter how hard you try to believe it.


I never said that there would be never be warfare or crime if people imbraced these ideals. Theres no accounting for the human psyche, and there always be people who thirst for power, or think that something needs to change.

There can be such a thing as a greater paradigm shift on the whole though. And what we need are LEADERS who believe in these things, to truly help prevent tragedies such as war. Obviously...our leaders right now don't really believe in peace.

Just look at Barack Obama and John McCain. Neither of them really give a rats ass about peace. Obama says he'll do whatever it takes to make sure Bin Laden is brought to justice. McCain is so gung ho about upholding America's "honor" that I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to invade somebody given the proper offense.

The point is, yes I agree SOMETIMES war is necessary, but it isnt always necessary.

Our society has so many fucked up problems, something is obviously not right. Something can be done better. Saying things like "Oh this is just the way we are, its how we will always be" is USELESS, STATIC, and simply IGNORING our problems.

We may never be perfect, shouldn't we strive TO BE perfect?


--------------------
Word to your mom.

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Re: Binary code found in crop circle [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #9067052 -

War is part of survival.

Think about how micro-organisms strive for survival at any cost.

Human war is an ironic reflection of lifes struggle to exist.

We will evolve to be mostly peaceful eventually though.  I hope...

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