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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: i6need6it6]
    #9061007 -

They should be fighting in the near future.  Shamrock released a statement today saying that whatever happens he still wants Kimbo to be his next fight. 

The only thing I see stopping it is this "fixed fight" allegation getting way out of hand and Kimbo somehow becoming inelligible to fight under request of the athletic commision until the issue is settled (They could still get around this having the fight elsewhere, but you never know)


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LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9061032 -

tight, and i dont believe mms is fixed fighting...unlike that wwe wrestling garbage, i remember frank mir destroyed some wwe dude but whatever fighting is tight


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i like drugs.

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: i6need6it6]
    #9061140 -

As far as I understand it, the alleged misconduct would be not on Kimbo, but instead on the fight promoter, as well as his opponent(sorry I had a few beers, can't remember the fellas name).  But you are right, the NSAC has done shit like that in the past so I don't doubt that they would again, but who would it benefit to do so?(someone would need to Pay or Leverage the NSAC do do that kind of thing right?)

Now about Frank, and his big adopted brother's supposed fight.  Ordinarily, I put all my money on Frank.  But, keep in mind that Ken began fighting before Frank, and was also always dominant during their years in the same household together growing up.  Now that means they already know each others moves pretty well, but more importantly, they know each others tendancies as well.  Now I ask you this,  If you are beating your little brothers ass on a daily bases, wouldn't you let him win a little bit so as to not just out and out break little brothers spirit and make him quit?  what I am getting at, is that although they both may very well know each others tendencies, I think that there must have been numerous times when Ken could have beaten his brother in sparing over the years, but chose to let Frank win in order to observe his kill instinct.  Many fighters go their whole lives never even showing this instinct, but brothers know, and the kill instinct, and the ferocity of it is one of the things that a fighter is born with, and cannot easily be changed.

I think big brother has some special secret never before used surprise moves for little brother, and vice versa.  I would pay to see two brothers fight, because I am a little bit twisted like that.  But these two brothers?  Oh YEAH BABY!!

Oh and one last thing about how Kimbo would have beaten Ken....

Yes you are right, if they stood up and swung.  But Ken is all ground, and only played that BS Tito stand up game for money.  He has more take down moves than most fighters will ever even see, and his natural tendency, I believe anyway, would have been to pancrase the shit out of Kimbos head immediately after his take down of Kimbo, and then the split second that Kimbo raises his hands to protect from the pancrasion ear slaps that he would be getting.....


Ken snaps on a kneebar.  Fight Over.....Kimbo Career over too.

But that is just how my minds eye plays it out.  Anybody else care to share their thoughts?

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9061162 -

yea kimbo has stand up like no other, and im taking it to the bank! i think ken and kimbo would be a good fight. and i dont think we are talking about the same frank lol but i do agree with the brotherly fights like you said mane


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i like drugs.

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: i6need6it6]
    #9061195 -

i6need6it6 said:
yea kimbo has stand up like no other, and im taking it to the bank! i think ken and kimbo would be a good fight. and i dont think we are talking about the same frank lol but i do agree with the brotherly fights like you said mane


Sorry brother, I was referring to Jadians comment that Frank Shamrock is trying to sign a fight with his brother Ken Shamrock.

I also am a fan of Frank Mir though.  I wouldn't wanna fight Mr. Mir. 

But off topic, as good as Frank Mir is, he could never ever hang with Frank Shamrock.  Well not now anyway.

:jah:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9061225 -

so your money would be on ken shamrock if he fought frank shamrock?


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i like drugs.

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9061385 -

This actually all took place in Florida so it's the Florida State Boxing Commision looking into the matter not the NSAC.

Personally I think Frank wins vs. Ken, but Frank Shamrock looses to Frank Mir.  Mir's got better submissions and better stand up although Shamrock's got the heart and (did) have the cardio.

And Kimbo does have stand up like no other... thankfully :lol:  He has awful technique and simple bob-and-weave approach with some haymakers behind it.  Obviously doesn't pan out well against a guy who can do a fake and throw a punch.


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LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: i6need6it6]
    #9061386 -

I wanna say Frank, so bad, but I really don't know ya know.

Watching two brothers fight is always fun though.

But yeah, my money for rent might have to go on Frank.

Until I see those fights I missed, I still think that Frank Shamrock is the best in the business right now.

But that is my opinion.  Who do you guys think is really the best?

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9062185 -

Frank Mir is good, but way too young to have better subs than Frank Shamrock.

From the time he whompped Tito's ass long ago, Frank Shamrock has been the best in the game.

There is a point for Black belts when subs just stop working when fighting against another black belt.

I have seen videos from Brazil where two black belts were rolling for hours with no winner.

Think of all the different martial arts that Frank Shamrock has been influenced by over the years, and then try to convince me again how Frank Mirs Jiu Jitsu can do anything to Frank Shamrock?

I mean in most places here in the states, they don't even teach ankle locks or knee bars to anyone under blue/purple belt status.  Frank got to learn from a very young age from his big brother who eventually became known all around the world for these dangerous yet highly effective subs.

And in stand up?  Mir whipping Frank Shamrock?  Not in a zillion years I think. 

Again I did not see Franks last fights, but I don't look down on a guy for getting an arm broken from a kick.

Frank Mir will need another 10 years to come close to being the same level that Frank Shamrock is at.

He is just that good you guys.  I mean it.  I think Frank Shamrock is the best rounded fighter of all times.  I got to see lots of sparring/rolling video of him on the Big island, and lemme tell you:  The man is bad.  Cardio, flexibility, stand-up,wrestling, jiu jitsu, pancrase, and a whole lot of other mean ass arts.


Everybody is entitled to thier own opinions, and I know that Frank Shamrock is a bit of a dickhead, but pound for pound who is better?

Respect...

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9062309 -

Frank shamrock is better than ken but thats just me and sharock would win vs. mir


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i like drugs.

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9063137 -

Shamrock is only 7 years older than Mir, and at his heaviest fighting weight still a good 40 pounds less.  There's no doubt in my mind that Mir has better BJJ seeing as how he's pulled off submissions against much stronger guys that you'd be hard pressed to pull off against anybody.

Check out Mir vs. Pete Williams, who was trained by the Shamrocks and beat people who Ken lost to.  He got him in the most ridiculous arm lock he made him look like a newbie.  And I honesty haven't seen a thing from Frank Shamrock that would indicate he's got better standup (ESPECIALLY after the Cung Le fight, you really need to watch it) because Frank Mir is (or was before the motorcycle crash) a great kickboxer as well. It's a moot point because they'll never fight, but I believe if you stayed current with all the fighters and events you'd have to come to the same conclusion that either Shamrock would be run over by Mir.  We'll see how Mir performs against Noguiera in December though that should really tell the tail.


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LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9063397 -

Jadian, I respect your viewpoints, and I will go catch up before I say any more.

But please, please, please, please, please don't tell me that you think that Mir has enough Jiu Jitsu to do anything but get bent over and ass pounded by Noguiera?  You have seen all of noguiera pride fights right?

I say noguiera even beats Rickson Gracie in a no gi fight.

And that statement is about as bold as I am willing to go, even on a anon board.

Respect...

:gethigh:


P.s.  40 lbs is nothing to someone with more cardio.  Cardio is strength, bigger means gas faster, lighter means faster, and quicker.
The shamrocks are nothing special as trainers, and I don't put a lot of stock in the lions den, but the training that the Shamrock brothers received was superior to anything that can be bought in the states present day. (keep in mind that BJ Penn bought his blackbelt and got it in only 4 months vs. the usual 10-12 years, and his skills aren't half bad.  But even BJ gets his ass handed to him everyday by Charuto in the Penn camp, so the better fighters are not alway the belt holders of the UFC.) Japan/Brazil/Thailand/Russia is where the art lives, not Las Vegas.  And when Ken took off to do pancrase and shoot boxing, Frank was studying with the masters of the far east:)


Edited by umbrellamaker (10/11/08 05:51 PM)

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9063679 -

yea i was dissapointed when i saw the cung lee fight


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i like drugs.

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: i6need6it6]
    #9063820 -

Ok Jadian,

I just watched the Shamrock lee fight.

My thoughts,

After breaking your arm in round one, way to fight Frank.  In his post fight conference he admits to underestimating Lee, but was forced to go through the feeling out process because of the lack of knowledge on his oponent.  3 more times in the fight, Frank almost knocks out Lee (with the weakened broken arm)  Frank never retreats, kept pushing forward, and stuck to the gameplan of learning about this opponent, even if it means losing.

Frank fought very well I thought.  He never even went for a take down, and that is a sign of respect to Lee.

The rematch Frank wins hands down, but the fight would begin on the ground and end there or more to the feet ONLY after Cung Lee shows that he is capable of surviving the ground game.

What you saw was honor and respect amongst Eastern fighters.  In America you would have expected Frank to go for a take down, to win at any cost, but Frank and Lee both understand that this is for honor, and that they will undoubtedly be meeting again numerous more times in both thier careers.

Frank fought a technically sound fight.  Yes he lost, but he offered to Fight Lee in Lee's style, and now honor demands that when they meet again, that Lee will be on the ground to compete in one of Franks worlds.  No excuses.  Frank fought well, I stand behind my words about him being the best rounded pound per pound martial artist in the world.

Cung lee showed some very effective skills in that fight.  Much to good to sell out to the UFC IMO.

Edited by umbrellamaker (10/11/08 06:28 PM)

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9063920 -

No I'm not expecting Mir to put up much of a fight to Nogueira, and personally I don't even think he should be in this fight for a belt.  He's great but I just don't think he's proven himself since the motorcycle accident.  Nogiuera is definitely one of my favorite fighters, I love his matches with Fedor and with Barnett.

You say Penn bought his belt but the man was the youngest and least trained BJJ guy to ever win the world BJJ championships so you HAVE to give him credit for that one.  His flexibility and natural awareness are a huge part of that, I use my flexibility and creativity to tap out guys who've trained years longer than I have.

Frank didn't break his arm in the first, he broke it in the 3rd.  If you'd like I could even show you exactly which kick did it because I remember watching it live and actually seeing the kick that did the damage.  It's in the flurry nearing the end of the 3rd right before Frank taps out or whatever.  I mean hey I give the guy all the credit in the world for trying to stand with Cung Le with all those brutal kicks that came at him, but to me trying to prove a point isn't as important as getting it done and winning the fight.  Frank Shamrock has the skills to do it but he didn't use them, and I don't think that's honorable at all.


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LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9064140 -

Frank claims that the arm broke in the first round, and got worse as the fight goes further.  I saw the kick that Frank claims did it, and it was in the first round.  So every time you saw Frank smash Cung Lees mouth during the fight, it was done with a broken arm.

Winning is good, but never at the expense of getting hurt permanently.  If you know nothing about your opponent, will you automatically just use your strengths, and expose your whole game, or will you study, and feel out your opponent?  Plus if you begin the fight agreeing to stand up, and then change your mind after a strong kick, in Japan, and elsewhere you would be called and considered a coward.  After that arm broke, Frank had no choice but to continue with the fight as he had chosen to start it.  It is not about your record, it is about how you are viewed as a warrior to all the other warriors of the world. 

And if the arm did indeed break in the first round, go watch the fight again, and tell me that Frank still looked bad with only one arm.  If you can almost knock a guy out cold 2-3 times in the fight with a broken right arm, how much harder do you think the punch would have been with a good arm.  I think if Franks arm wasn't hurt in the first round, he knocks out Lee in that fight.

He fought well, and looked good in my opinion.

There is no shame.  Just how the cards are dealt that night.

Respect...
:jah:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9064172 -

I never heard him claim it broke in the first, in fact I thought he said after the fight it happened in the third.  In fact I'm sure that's when it happened because you just can't block that many kicks with a broken arm no matter how tough you are or how much heart you have. 

And I dunno, I guess if Frank felt like he proved something then good for him, I thought it was embarassing for a skilled fighter like that to get beat up (Le won all the rounds) and not try to win the fight.


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LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9064970 -


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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9064984 -

And then this:




I love the part when Frank is on the ground and he looks up as if to say, wanna come down here and play with me?

And then Cung Lee backs away to let Frank get up.

Cung Lee looks like a very very effective fighter.

I look forward to seeing the rematch.

Edited by umbrellamaker (10/12/08 12:03 AM)

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9065075 -

Kimbo wants to know?



Well Kimbo they do it to hide thier Gynacomastia (Bitch Tits)  as that is a tell tale sign of a steroid user that either cycling the wrong way, or taking cheap steroids:)  I do it too before I fight:)

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