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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9059624 -

They arrest people for using juice, but they all break the law and juice in order to be stronger law enforcement officers.  When someone like Mccarthy refs the UFC, and he is illegally taking a federally banned substance, it makes the kids think that it is ok, and it also has an impact on the fighters taking the juice as well.  I don't judge people for juicing, but I do judge cops for it.  It goes against the oath they swear to become cops to begin with.  It makes the sport look bad too, when even the best bodybuilders of the 1960's could never achieve those physiques when they were training all day everyday.

As far as what steroids do, I know a lot, and I don't judge a person who is foolish enough to use.  But in competition it is weak, contagious, and unsportsmanlike.  Do you think that if you were competing against another version of yourself that never got tired, and was 5 times stronger than you but weighed the same, that you would be perfectly content about losing to your twin that was secretly on juice?  How about all of those hours of training, and injuries?  What about all other gladiators from the dawn of time looking down at you from the heavens shaking their heads with disgust?  Fo millinia men have gone into battle to fight with their hearts, completely prepared to die in battle.  Now because a few weak spirited people want to secretly juice, and defraud others in competition, you do not have a problem with that?

How about someone just bringing a knife into the cage.  Is that cool too.  Once it is acceptable to win with performance enhancing drugs, everyone will be forced to do it, and it is happening right now in all sports.  This destroys the measure of human spirit in my opinion.  But if any friends of mine wanna juice...cool man... Its your body...JUST DO NOT COMPETE in a sport I love.

AFOAF once threw a 118 mile per hour fastball under the influence of LSD.  Would it be right for some pitcher who has honed his pitching for decades to get the show, to be replaced by my friend on LSD every night.  Is it ok to lose your job because someone wants to cheat?

???

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9059714 -

I can completely understand not liking cops using steroids using the hippocrit argument.  They arrest drug users and treat them like shit every day (especially in LA) and for those officers to be on steroids would be pretty low.  I don't know enough about the LAPD to comment on that. 

Personally steroids aren't a tabboo thing for me and I believe they should be legal in any regard or any sport.  It's just a matter of using a stabalized carbon ring that our bodies create in small amounts anyway to achieve maximum potential for your own body.  Steroids don't give you skills, they don't give you muscles, and they don't give you strength, they give you the HIGHER ABILITY to train all these things.  I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it's all a personal issue at this level. 

Check out the documentary "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" as some figures from that movie share a very similar view as I do on the subject and can articulate it much better.  I mean hell now that professional bodybuilders are gene doping steroids are practically obsolete anyway at least in that business. 

Come on now though, watch UFC 2 again and then watch UFC 70.  You can't tell me that it's so ridiculously obvious that Big John is on roids it's harmful to the business, in fact in that what... 12 year time span I'd say he gained a perfectly normal amount of muscle and bulk considering the environment he's in (trains MMA, police officer, around fighters all the time.. etc)


Maximizing the potential of your own body is nothing like bringing a knife into a fight because that's not part of you.  This is a fight that you should be able to bring all your physical and mental skills to, and I don't think taking anything you can naturally produce in your body should be viewed as illegal.  Shit guys break their bones and have titanium plates put in there and are still allowed to fight, I think that's more fucked up and a larger advantage than using steroids.


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LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9059773 -

So why did god give men balls then?

Mccarthy was on dianabol back during ufc 2.

Not all performance enhancing drugs are there to let you just train harder.

Blood doping=you will never get tired
anphetamines=you will be faster, and your focus, intincts, and ability to strike with more lash(not force)
Some juice makes your body function with such low amounts of oxygen that normally you would need to be asleep.

Some juice makes your body produce bigger muscle cells

HGH=makes your body not only regenerate (not like normal either), but also have more muscle cells instead of just larger ones.

The other day on this website I read that scientists have given lab rats the ability to regenerate limbs.  When this is given to humans later on, is it fair for a big league pitcher to just have his arms and legs amputated when he gets old so that he can grow brand new ones later, and be back in the game?

Think of the sportsmanship of Nascar.  Everyone drives the same car, but there are limits to how you can modify or tune the engine.  What if some guy decides he wants to win the daytona 500 with a little extra boost of nitrous?  No harm right?  I mean it is just a molecularly modified version of the gas that everyone else is using.

I have been told by LAPD after loosing to a monster that I could not even utilize jiu jitsu technique on because of his freakish strength that all LAPD and all SWAT not only do it, but it is not a secret, and I believe that those guys were trying to pass a law that made it all ok for them, because they were the good guys.  Yeah right...

That is all we need is cops with roid rage!!

Respect...

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9059841 -

Sounds like we're just gonna agree to disagree here, I respect and appreciate the knowledge and thought you put behind your point (instead of the much more common "Fuck steroids cheating assholes" argument).

Sports are always about getting the edge on everybody else though, and since people WILL use steroids regardless of the legality I don't see why you don't make them available to everyone else as a way of leveling the playing field instead of just making the users come up with more ways to cheat tests.  Not to mention the steroids that can't be tested for (including HGH here even though it's not a steroid.)

I mean even using your own Nascar example... there was a racer in the 70s or 80s I believe who added an extra couple of feet to his fuel line because there were regulation sizes on gas tanks but not fuel lines, so he was able to carry a few more gallons of gas than everybody else.  It wasn't made illegal until after he started winning races, it was completely within the rules (or lack thereof) when he did it.


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LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9060014 -

Jadian,

I respect your viewpoints as well.

I love a good debate.  I am not angry at anybody even though it may sound that way.  I am just passionate about this kinda thing.

But here is the kicker.....  I used to juice.  And compete.  Now I half to live with myself knowing that I had no true glory, and my body got hurt real bad.  I did it before all of the new designer stuff.  I am ashamed of myself for what I did.

Peace brother...

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9060065 -

Seriously check out that documentary I listed if you haven't seen it or heard of it, I think you'd like it even if you don't agree with steroids being made available.

Still in the LA area or close by?  Should come down to Phoenix and hop in and roll with our classes some day :thumbup:  Shannon Ritch trains with us now :lol:


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LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9060081 -

Shannon is a friend of mine.

Used to watch him fight in Hilo "Rumble on the Rock"

Thanks for the invite:)

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9060146 -

I give the guy credit, anyone who can lose 12 in a row and keep fighting... then lose 10 in a row and STILL keep fighting has got to love what he does.


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LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9060174 -

Yeah...,

But Shannon is so likable, most people that don't even know him end up rooting for him.

Last time I saw him fight, he busted a rib, and could not continue.  But he got a standing ovation anyway.

Sometimes even in the absence of glory, there is joy.

:congrats:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9060303 -

Jadian said:
But come on, somebody getting paid 1/2 mill to show up and another couple of hundred k to get a knockout is NOT going to put their career in jeopardy by going down like a sack of bricks to the first punch.  Makes zero fucking sense!


I agree... I have said this from the first time that woolly bearded bastard fought MMA that anybody with any sort of MMA talent was going to beat him.  I did think it would last longer then it did. Kimbo is a fucking show piece that when thrown bums and has beens will destroy them. 

Which leads me to wonder now what would have happen if Ken had fought?  Shamrock is over the hill, but has more talent then the kid who fucked Kimbo up, so would Ken have beaten him as well?

And why the hell don't they do what i said would be the best money making fight Kimbo could ever have.. Kimbo Vs Butterbean. Though personally i think Butterbean would beat the black off Kimbo. :rotfl:


--------------------

"They look like psychos? Is that what they looked like? They were vampires. Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits 'em. I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!"

"Eric Stratton.. Rush chairman.. Damn glad to meet you.."

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: MrSinister]
    #9060340 -

I would take that bet.

Also I think that the man that beat Kimbo would easily beat Ken Shamrock.

But how about Frank Shamrock?

Now there is a really talented martial artist who never juiced, but I believe is the best in the world today.

Any thoughts fellas?

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9060403 -

Yea i would gladly bet Bean would destroy Kimbo. Shit lets take a common opponent both have fought within a year James Thompson.  Kimbo barely beat Thompson, and at times looked to be losing the fight.  Kimbo was gassed, and got lucky with Thompson's ear.

Now lets talk Butterbean Vs Thompson 2007..  Butterbean beat him in 43 seconds, by knocking him on his ass.

Kimbo would get stopped fast.


--------------------

"They look like psychos? Is that what they looked like? They were vampires. Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits 'em. I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!"

"Eric Stratton.. Rush chairman.. Damn glad to meet you.."

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: MrSinister]
    #9060472 -

Yeah,

But now lets talk rules.

There is a whole lot less to worry about in a boxing match.

Kimbo needs to stop weightlifting, and only do stretching, and cardio along with muay thai, and jiu jitz for another year.  When his body stops burning oxygen like a v8 engine, then we will see.

But since he did get knocked out cold, maybe he could benefit from a little bit of boxing training too.

The poor guy is from the streets, I just wanna see him be successful in the cage.  With heart, dedication and determination anything can happen for any of us. 

Maybe Kimbo should give me his bong for a while too.  I get gassed that way when I smoke a lot too.

I am not trying to swing on the mans nutsack or anything, I just like rooting for the underdog, and getting a taste of the floor will either break his spirit, or make it stronger.  I would hate to be his next opponent.  Now Kimbo is gonna be out to prove something, and that is when fighters are always at their best.



Respect...

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: MrSinister]
    #9060596 -

I'd actually take Kimbo in a Kimbo vs Bean fight.  The simple reason being that anybody who's shot for Bean's legs has won the fight, and Kimbo tried to shoot (albiet very badly) on a guy who's a lot better than Bean at defending takedowns (Seth).

Not too impressed with Frank Shamrock either.  What's he done in the past 5 years besides run his mouth? 

Beaten Phil Baroni?  Whoooppppdeeeeedooooo.

got DQ'd while losing to Renzo, with a blatantly on purpose illegal blow.  I've never once seen Frank Shamrock use his knees on somebody off his back, ever, yet he "accidently" busts one out after years of not fighting in Japan where he could have done it?

Lost to Cung Le who he could have beaten if he'd have just changed his strategy and bullrushed into a takedown.  Cung's not a very good wrestler as far as MMA goes and he'll get his whenever they line up some better opponents for him.  I love Cung it's just he has very obvious flaws (like his whole ground game!)

And now he's trying to hype a fight with his own adopted brother because he doesn't want to have to take a real fight.  I just don't buy Frank Shamrock anymore.  Loved him when he beat Tito for the belt, but really that's the last time he's shined in my eyes.


--------------------
LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9060742 -

Shoot,

I missed that fight.

Frank shamrock lost to a wrestler you say?

What is this fucking world coming to?

Frank Shamrock is the best I have ever seen all around.  Antonio Nuiguerra (spelling?)  was the best roller I had ever seen, But now I gotta go catch up on my fights.  Thanks for the heads-up.

And your saying that Frank is trying to sign a fight with Ken?  Find that hard to believe.

Anyone got sum links for my lazy ass?

You tube is such a far walk from where I am lying on my ass at the moment.

I really thought Frank Shamrockis the best I have ever seen.  I need to get direct tv again apparently:(

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: Jadian]
    #9060756 -

i wanted to see ken shamrock fight....would he have one?


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i like drugs.

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: i6need6it6]
    #9060757 -

won**


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i like drugs.

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: i6need6it6]
    #9060846 -

Ken would indeed have destroyed Kimbo.

If the ufc ever switched over to pancrase rules, Ken could once again be a star.

But after that whole Tito thing, a lot of people now question Kens heart.  And I am in the front of that line.

They say old lions fight their hardest right before they die.  So maybe ol Ken has one more left in him after all.  It would be extremely punk of him to not pursue a match with Kimbo at this point.  Although neither fighter deserves a main event, or big money.  But I would think that Kimbo still has ticket sales apeal when I would rather watch OPRAH WINFREY than pay for a Ken Shamrock fight.  Unless he fights Mr. Slice.

Ankle locks, and heel hooks, and kneebars OH MY.

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9060922 -

No I phrased is strangely, Cung Le is a stand up fighter coming from a Shan Shou background.  All he has is kicks and a semi-decent wrestling ability to stay on his feet.  Basically he just hasn't been tested by any real grapplers yet.  Shamrock could have beat him but he decided to try to stand and trade and got his arm broken by a barrage of kicks. 

And yeah the Frank vs. Ken thing is something Frank has been trying to promote for at least a year now.  He wants to a bunch of promotion work and reality shows about their training and all kinds of stuff, but he doesn't realize that nobody cares about that fight but him.  Really I haven't met one person that's excited to see Ken vs. Frank but Frank talks about it like it's Fedor vs. Crocop all over again or something.  Try googling Ken and Frank and I believe his terminology for it was "Brothers of Blood" or something equally lame :lol:

I think Kimbo would have beat Shamrock personally.  I just don't believe Ken anymore when he says he's in shape or his heart's in it because he's been saying that for years and not meaning it.  The last fight he had he went down to a weak jab and acted like he got hit by a truck.  The heart is gone and I don't think he'd have been willing to take blows from Kimbo and since Shamrock has literally no shot I didn't see him getting inside without taking a few hard ones.


--------------------
LNC's official Alaskan stoner
:jackdaniels::drooling::jackdaniels:

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Re: did kimbo throw that fight? [Re: umbrellamaker]
    #9060924 -

yea well all i gotta say is they gotta fight cuz it  would be pussy not too


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i like drugs.

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