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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: HB]
    #8899700 -

Most of our debt is held by other countries in the form of US Treasury bills which are basically an IOU. This allows us to live like kings but in reality we are really very poor as our assets are far outweighed by our debts and we are being slowly crushed by massive, unprecedented debt in every level of society. But our lenders are China and Japan whose economies are dependant upon our own. So they don't dare pull the plug on us like any rational lender would in that situation.

Basically the US is a paper tiger which will be experiencing a recession soon (if its not here already) followed by a depression which will make the Great Depression look like a picnic. We have canabilized and hollowed out our economy which will impode within the next few years. Your politicians are trying desperately to hold this house of cards together so the problem can be passed on to the next generation. This has become a habit of each successive government.

That process is rapidly reaching an endgame where consequences can no longer be put off and the Big Collapse will not be long..


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: zorbman]
    #8899745 -

That made a lot of sense, but really, now I'm just sad for the future of our country, as it seems we ALL just pass our problems down for the next generations to take care of.  :frown:


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So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. - Galatians 5:16

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: HB]
    #8899781 -

The next 10-20 years will be VERY rough but don't count out this country. We live in the moment and put things off but when pressed we tend to come through. At least we have so far. It's always a good thing on an individual basis to plan for the worst case scenario and hope for the best. Sounds cliche' but it's true.

Buy silver and gold and stay out of debt. :wink:


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (09/09/08 12:34 AM)

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8899828 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Ferris said:
Of course, we take in so much right now


so much of what? money from loans we've made?


lol


GDP.  We DO still do a lot of business, in spite of rumors to the contrary


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Discuss Politics

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: Ferris]
    #8899877 -

Quote:
GDP.  We DO still do a lot of business, in spite of rumors to the contrary


Give me a credit card with a massive credit limit and I can also create a very nice business to all appearances.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: zorbman]
    #8899898 -

I understand that, but tell that to our service and manufacturing industries that are making the trillions of dollars a year that support that credit debt


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Discuss Politics

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: Ferris]
    #8899918 -

Ferris said:
I understand that, but tell that to our service and manufacturing industries that are making the trillions of dollars a year that support that credit debt


I wouldn't want to be rude. :wink:


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: zorbman]
    #8899930 -

If we all got a decent slice of that pie, I would hope that we might all be nicer people :yesnod:


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Discuss Politics

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: Ferris]
    #8899952 -

Ferris said:
If we all got a decent slice of that pie, I would hope that we might all be nicer people :yesnod:


Yep. Until the debt comes due at least.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: zorbman]
    #8900367 -

Everything is operated based on debt.  Businesses' assets usually equal close to their liabilities.  So when a lendor gives a company money it is because they see that investing in the company will pay off.  The same concept applies to international investments/debt.  We have a lot of debt just like Microsoft, McDonalds, Berkshire-Hathaway, have a lot of debt.

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: accountant]
    #8900406 -

How does Microsoft have debt? Don't they have 30-something billion dollars in cash?


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: zouden]
    #8900483 -

I would say the future of the US economy is very much dependent on new emerging technologies. Some very interesting things are already here, such as developing new micro-organisms that consume CO2 and give off waste energy we can use. In fact, Craig Venter just may replace the petrol industry as the EROEI of creating synthetic petrol-producing life is unlimited. Unfortunately, people are afraid of new technologies due to the risk associated with them, however any cryptologist will tell you that security is dependent on procedures and not merely hiding information. Basically, if we do not do this someone else will.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/craig_venter_is_on_the_verge_of_creating_synthetic_life.html

Something else that is pretty cool to note (though of less significance) is solar cell paint! Spray your house with this stuff and save hundreds of dollars from energy consumption every month.

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/03/24/solar-power-without-a-solar-panel/


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

Edited by psyka (09/09/08 04:15 AM)

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: psyka]
    #8900487 -

Money as debt, documentary



--------------------
Been away so long I hardly knew the place
Gee, it's good to be back home
Leave it till tomorrow to unpack my case
Honey disconnect the phone
I'm back in the USSA
You don't know how lucky you are, boy
Back in the US
Back in the US
Back in the USSA

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: zouden]
    #8900501 -

Look up their most recent 10-K on google and everything that is listed in the Liabilities section of the Balance Sheet is debt.

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: accountant]
    #8900614 -

Looking on wikipedia shows that they have a net income of $17 billion and total assets of $72 billion ($32 billion in cash). They may have debts but they aren't in debt.

edit: I just re-read your post, that's exactly what you were saying  :foreheadslap:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Edited by zouden (09/09/08 05:44 AM)

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: zouden]
    #8900699 -

Companies still take on debts sometimes because they can earn money on the interest of keeping their profits.  So if a supplier is willing to "front" something they will take that even if they can afford to buy it outright.  Good business sense!

There may also be companies of which the debt has refused to be paid.  This may be because of faulty products nor pending lawsuits etc

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: Ego Death]
    #8900855 -

Now would be a good time to become an international crack hustler and move to a South American country.

The drugs market seems to be on the up and up and seems to be unaffected by the recession (as each currency takes a dive, they just switch to a stronger currency).

There's also a correlation between 'depression' (as in financial difficulties) and drug use... I might have to go and buy some shares in the Gulf cartel or the Arellano Felix organisation.

When the western world hits a hyper-inflation, physical possessions will be worth nothing (so gold and silver and other precious metals will fall in value). Just look at the Weimar Republic (1930s Germany).


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

Open Source. Freedom.  GNU/Linux

Addicting is not a word.

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: Ego Death]
    #8901308 -

Ego Death said:
Companies still take on debts sometimes because they can earn money on the interest of keeping their profits.  So if a supplier is willing to "front" something they will take that even if they can afford to buy it outright.  Good business sense!


Exactly.  Long term bonds or whatever are going to probably have an interest rate of about 2.5 percent.  In the last 30 years, real gdp has risen an average of 3% annually (and I bet taxes have gone up in the meantime too, so our governments "profits" have probably risen slightly proportionally higher than even that).


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Discuss Politics

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: Cepheus]
    #8901396 -

Quote:
When the western world hits a hyper-inflation, physical possessions will be worth nothing (so gold and silver and other precious metals will fall in value). Just look at the Weimar Republic (1930s Germany).


Actually the opposite is true. During a hyperinflationary period real, tangible goods increase in value and precious metals skyrocket reflecting the dramatically weakened currency.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: So if the United States is perpetually in debt ... [Re: zorbman]
    #8901409 -

zorbman said:
Basically the US is a paper tiger which will be experiencing a recession soon (if its not here already) followed by a depression which will make the Great Depression look like a picnic. We have canabilized and hollowed out our economy which will impode within the next few years.


damn doomsdayers, always talkin like the world is ending about matters with which you fail to contain a thorough understanding.

Economists are torn right now as to whether or not we are even HEADING towards a recession.  By true definition, we certainly ARE NOT in one.  Regardless, an event that makes the Great Depression look like  "picnic" will NOT happen, or even remotely approach such a state. 

Take off your tinfoil hat.


I'm still waiting for Wiccan to come in and explain everything to us factually (albeit a bit doomsday-esque)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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