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So if Musharraf's Gov't Falls....
    #7622359 -

I dont see how CANNOT go into Pakistan and grab those nukes. I mean, I'm the biggest detractor of the Iraqi War, but there is absolutely no way we can sanction letting the actual terrorists that exist in Pakistan getting ahold of those things.

Its bad enough the the Gov't now has them, but they are at least somewhat rational people.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: So if Musharraf's Gov't Falls.... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7622831 -

So I can assume you are on board with bomb runs in Iran. Taken as necessary, of course. Why, you neocon, you. Welcome to the real world.


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Re: So if Musharraf's Gov't Falls.... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7623334 -

Hardly.

There is a big difference between a legitimate, though extreme government in Iran, and a group of fucking Taliban fanatics living in some valley in Tora Bora.

While you may not agree with Iran and some of their bat-shit crazy ideas, you have to realize that just because one is bad doesn't mean the other isn't worse.

I'm much more scared of real terorists with real, working, and proven nuclear weapons and delivery systems than I am of anything those Iranians might be able to drum up.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: So if Musharraf's Gov't Falls.... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7624485 -

> So if Musharraf's Gov't Falls.... I dont see how CANNOT go into Pakistan and grab those nukes.

Musharraf isn't the one to be watching. As long as the military doesn't splinter everything is fine. Keep your eye on their military, not on Musharraf.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: So if Musharraf's Gov't Falls.... [Re: Seuss]
    #7624747 -

I don't think those nukes in Pakistan are going anywhere.... unless someone in their own military starts selling them.

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Re: So if Musharraf's Gov't Falls.... [Re: BrAiN]
    #7625161 -

Like the guy who developed them in the first place, who was shopping the technology all over the world.

Madtown, please explain the difference between the Taliban loons and the mad mullahs of Iran and why you think the mad mullahs coup was legit while a Taliban coup in Pakistan would not be. Embrace your inner neo-con. You know you want to.


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Re: So if Musharraf's Gov't Falls.... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7625192 -

No, I dont.

You cant even compare a state to a group of individuals. The fact is that Iran is a legitimate state with well-defined borders and a functioning & recognized government.

The Taliban, be it in Afghanistan or Pakistan is a terrorist group. They do not have borders, have no international legitimacy, and cannot be reasoned with.

You can apply international pressure to Iran through normal channels, whether those be diplomatic overtures or economic sanctions. You cannot have any kind of dialogue with the Taliban. The United States Gov't has, rightly in my opinion, declared the Taliban is a terrorist organization, not a sovereign government of any state.

Comparing the two coups is an exercise of mental masturbation. The coup in Iran was over 30 years ago and has absolutely no bearing on the situation there today. Whether you like the government there or not, and I know you dont, they have managed to impart themselves with an aire of legitimacy by hanging on to power for this long and keeping the country in some manner of order. Pakistan, by contrast, has been through at least 3 major coups in that timeframe and is barely a legitimate country itself.

And now you want to talk about the legitimacy of a TERRORIST run government in that same country? Please. Its apples/oranges.

The simple fact is that I do not believe your sabre-rattling about Iran. Yes, I would probably feel safer if they did not have nuclear weapons. But I have great hope for the (eventual) rationalization of that country, given the thin margin of support its government currently enjoys. I have no such hope for Pakistan's tribal areas. I do not believe that a war with Iran would protect us, and I do no believe that Iran acquiring a crude, large, and dirty nuclear weapon would put us in any greater danger. I DO believe that the Taliban acquiring control of a sizeable (25-30) weapons stockpile that is proven and working, with delivery systems to match would be an unparalleled disaster.

I should also state that I'm not implying support for any kind of huge "Islamabad Storm" invasion with 3 armored divisions. Just a quick run in, grab the weapons, and take them away. Leave them to whatever they want to do afterwords. Leave them to their own devices. I doubt India is going to let them get too out of hand anyway. The word on the street is that we helped them design most of their nuclear safeguards, so don't tell me that we dont know how to get them out. I dont buy it.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: So if Musharraf's Gov't Falls.... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7625224 -

isn't Pakistan likely to elect Bhutto?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: So if Musharraf's Gov't Falls.... [Re: afoaf]
    #7625247 -

In what elections?

I think most people, Bhutto included, are skeptical that Musharraf is going to hold those elections.

And, further, from what I understand Bhutto has said she will boycott the elections if the current policies are not rescinded. This may be posturing, but it may be the truth.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: So if Musharraf's Gov't Falls.... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7626236 -

hasn't he surrendered his military position and stated that elections will
happen in the beginning of 08?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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