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Re: Pat Tillman was fragged [Re: Conservationist]
    #7261391 -

Occam's razor:. Enemy resistance was encountered (whether actual or perceived from the soldiers at the time), a firefight ensued. Tillman popped his head up, just as a fellow soldier to his rear fired his rifle. This soldier's 3 round burst unfortunately hit Tillman in the head, killing him instantly. his platoon killed him purposely? I fucking doubt it.


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You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.


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Re: Pat Tillman was fragged [Re: WhiteRabbitt]
    #7261485 -

Me fucking too.


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Re: Pat Tillman was fragged [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7261811 -

So many dead Liutenants scattered all over Viet Nam may see things different but it is much more comforting to believe "America...FUCK YEAH!" and not give it another thought, eh?
Trust is something earned and our government hardly inspires trust. So I remain a healthy sceptic while remembering we are also the most personaly generous nation on earth.Tillman could have been fragged, war does that to scared men, or not but since trusting those who would investigate it is foolish since they have repeatedly lied since the before the war.
they know there are WMD's
they know it was accidental.
We know they lie so shadow of doubt on the ruling if you aren't guillible,eh?
WR
WR


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To old for this place

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Re: Pat Tillman was fragged [Re: whiterasta]
    #7261858 -

ummmm, what?


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You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.


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Re: Pat Tillman was fragged [Re: whiterasta]
    #7261922 -

whiterasta said:
So many dead Liutenants scattered all over Viet Nam may see things different but it is much more comforting to believe "America...FUCK YEAH!" and not give it another thought, eh?
Trust is something earned and our government hardly inspires trust. So I remain a healthy sceptic while remembering we are also the most personaly generous nation on earth.Tillman could have been fragged, war does that to scared men, or not but since trusting those who would investigate it is foolish since they have repeatedly lied since the before the war.
they know there are WMD's
they know it was accidental.
We know they lie so shadow of doubt on the ruling if you aren't guillible,eh?
WR
WR

exactly, only trust them as far as you can throw them.


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May our only occupation be not having a job.
May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
-Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains

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Re: Pat Tillman was fragged [Re: whiterasta]
    #7261945 -

I didn't know Tillman was a lieutenant in Vietnam. As to fragging we have this:

Quote:
The term "fragging" was coined for the intentional murder of a superior officer or non-commissioned officer since a fragmentation hand grenade, or "frag", was the weapon used in some of these incidents. Given the total number of these incidents (230) over the 10-plus years of American involement, from a percentage standpoint you were far less likely to be a homicide victim in Vietnam than on the streets of Berkeley, California.


http://www.rjsmith.com/war_myth.html#fraggings

You have your narrative and you'll stick to it no matter what. Religion.


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Re: Pat Tillman was frigged [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7262153 -

We forget what the common state of mind is nowadays in America. I know this was a ranger squad, and I would never think of questioning the integrity of anyone who served in the infantry, much less as a ranger, but things are so FIBER in America and in the military it's hard to know. Although I highly doubt there was a top to bottom conspiracy here. But somethings not right. ask the Tillman's.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton

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Re: Pat Tillman was frigged [Re: whattheheck]
    #7262532 -

Here's what probably happened:

Some young and inexperienced Ranger was so scared that he was practically shitting his pants. This Ranger saw Pat stand up and he shot first and asked questions later. The gunman and the unit were completely distraught over what happened.

The Army tries to cover up/spin the whole incident for morale and propaganda reasons. The Tillmans are understandably upset. The whole truth comes out and the Army looks bad. End of story.

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Re: Pat Tillman was frigged [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7263645 -

Yeah, it's gotta be like 98%-2% that what you justr said happened. But there's a small chance. I just don't understand how he got three (I know about what the m-16a2 can do as I went through basic and AIT at one point) in the forehead straight. In the back, the back of the head?? Yeah I get that. But the forehead? I guess he could have been looking back like you said. Either way, he and his family got used. And he's more of a man (in that way) than I am. Forget the NFL!! I'm not leaving Domino's Pizza, my family and the bong for Iraq/Afgahnistan/BFE if nobody makes me. And I used to love the USA.

Now I just love what it was and could be.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton

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Re: Pat Tillman was frigged [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7263806 -

RandalFlagg said:
Here's what probably happened:

Some young and inexperienced Ranger was so scared that he was practically shitting his pants. This Ranger saw Pat stand up and he shot first and asked questions later. The gunman and the unit were completely distraught over what happened.

The Army tries to cover up/spin the whole incident for morale and propaganda reasons. The Tillmans are understandably upset. The whole truth comes out and the Army looks bad. End of story.


exactly


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You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.


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Re: Pat Tillman was frigged [Re: whattheheck]
    #7263849 -

whattheheck said:
I just don't understand how he got three (I know about what the m-16a2 can do as I went through basic and AIT at one point)


M-16's shoot in three variations: semi-auto, 3 shot burst, and fully automatic. So, it is entirely feasible that someone aimed, pulled the trigger once, and three bullets flew out and hit Tillman in the head.

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Re: Pat Tillman was frigged [Re: whattheheck]
    #7263929 -

I didn't go through AIT myself, but I come from a military family and have a few friends in the military. I have always been told that most troops with even a modicum of training will flip the selector to three round burst because it gives the best compromise between stopping power and control of the weapon. Full auto burns through ammo too quickly and makes the barrel rise the longer the trigger is held, while single shot doesn't do enough damage. These aren't .357 magnum slugs we're talking about here.



Phred


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Re: Pat Tillman was frigged [Re: Phred]
    #7265105 -

It's just amazing that he took 3 to the forehead. Crap does happen like that, I don't think it's something Bush made happen, but the whole thing has been weird and sad for our country and the Tillman's.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton

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