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Information travelling faster than 'light' ..
    #7248998 -

From Blazelabs ~2/3 way down page

Quote:
Dispersion of electromagnetic waves in space

Dispersion is the change of index of refraction with wavelength. Generally the index decreases as wavelength increases, blue light traveling more slowly in the material than red light. When the refractive index decreases as wavelength decreases the situation is known as anomalous dispersion, and has been observed at X-ray frequencies and higher. Any refracting medium offers some degree of dispersion including vacuum. Different vacuums at different energy levels, such as the space within a strong gravitational field, have different refractive index and also a different degree of dispersion. Such dispersion effect in space is not generally noticed since the effect is much smaller than with a glass prism within the visible spectrum, but nonetheless, must theoretically have a non zero value. This dispersion effect would give Plancktons of different frequencies, different velocities while travelling in space.
Applet demonstrating effect
Now that we know about the distribution curve of Planckton energy, about the refractive index of space, and about the presence of anomalous dispersion expected at high frequencies from refractive mediums, we can work out what happens to the Planckton energy as each wave travels at subluminal (less than c) velocities from the universe core to each body in existence. Let's consider our solar system, a space in which we measure the speed of light to be equal to c. The refractive index of space would slow down electromagnetic waves of higher frequencies to subluminal velocities. All waves in the Planckton energy band would be moving at a velocity less than c. The interesting part of this process, is that even though electromagnetic waves do not act upon each other, the resultant radiation pressure does add up at any point in space. In the diagram shown above, the lower white curve is simply the addition of the waves above it. The poynting vector of such a wave packet will thus be detected as an impulse over the target, more like an individual particle push than a continous force. What's even more interesting is that this wave packet does travel at superluminal speeds, even though its constituent waves are classical electromagnetic waves. This is not an artifact, it's a real energy packet travelling at superluminal speeds, with characteristics that would certainly fit the theorised graviton, or the ultramundane particles which Le Sage has described as most certainly they must be of exceeding swiftness and must be carried far more quickly that the light of the Sun and had estimated their speed to be at least 1013 times c.





Applet demonstrating effect


--------------------
It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..


Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!

Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: cleeen]
    #7249076 -

Wtf is 'Blaze Labs Research'? 

Quote:
© Engineer Xavier Borg - Blaze Labs Research


:lol: 

cleen, did you just make this website?

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: cleeen]
    #7249117 -

This is nothing new. Superluminal group velocities has been known for decades but it does not violate causality or allow superluminal communication.

Communication is what can't happen faster than c, c being equal to the speed of light.

Imagine taking a laser pointer and pointing it at a very distant wall. Now move the laser pointer quickly and the dot of light on the wall can very well move faster than c, but no information can be transmitted faster than c this way.

Here's another thought experiment that demonstrates this.

Ever watch a football stadium full of people doing "The Wave"? It happens when one vertical file of bleachers suddenly stands, then sits. When that group of people sits, the next file to their right stands, then sits. Repeat this for each file and from a distance you can observe a wave propagating around the stadium as people stand then sit in order.

This type of wave can never exceed c because the fundamental speed limit prevents the file to the right SEEING faster than c the information that the prior file just sat and now it's next file's turn. This is because each file of people has to see the light that tells them the previous person just sat down and now it's his turn. Seeing happens at at c and no faster.

However, imagine that you give a very accurate watch to each person in the stadium and instruct them to stand at a specific time instead of when they SEE that the prior file has sat down again.

If each person stands and sits at a specific time (and can do this very quickly) rather than when their neighbor sits, then you can adjust the timing such that the wave will propagate faster than the speed of light because each person stands then sits at a specific time, even though the light that tells them their neighbor just sat hasn't had enough time to reach them.

However, causality is still not violated by this because even though the wave propagates faster than c, it carries an information theoretical entropy of zero, and no information is transmitted.

Yet another example of something moving faster than c but transmitting zero information is a long row of LEDs connected to timers. Set the timers to flash the LEDs one after the other very quickly, and the blip will move along the string of LEDs faster than c. But yet again, the Signal Velocity remains less than c. No information can be transmitted this way and so causality is still preserved.

The only reason I can think of that your author doesn't mention this is because he doesn't know it, or he's deliberately neglecting to mention it in order to support his pet anti-establishment dogma.

And THAT'S why you won't find articles like those in peer reviewed science journals: because the people doing the peer review can't be duped by fancy science-sounding words in a sophomoric article written by some guy with a web page and a high school physics book.

Real science is more interesting than weird made up stuff, trust me. You'll learn a lot more and be more amazed if you stick to real science articles that present the available information with no agenda. Give it a try, eh? :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: Diploid]
    #7249807 -

Dont you think we should stop saying "c is the speed of light" .. after all its also the speed of the radio . Speed of Radio waves just sounds slower doesn't it ?

Speed of electricity might be the more uniform denominator (considering how we can convert electricity into just about any phase cycle).

Communication faster than light ?

How about a 144kilometer separated quantum pairing entanglement ?

Quote:
ESA Takes Steps Toward Quantum Communications

Science Daily — A team of European scientists has proved within an ESA study that the weird quantum effect called 'entanglement' remains intact over a distance of 144 kilometres.

Single photon transmitter optics module (Alice) in La Palma aligned towards Tenerife (visible in the upper right corner). The quantum source is located inside a portacabin (not shown here) and is connected to the transmitter optics module via standard optical fibre. (Credit: University of Vienna (A) and Max Planck Institute (D))

Those two entangled photons can then be separated but as soon as one of them interacts with a third particle, the other photon of the pair will change its quantum state instantaneously.


Single photon transmitter optics module (Alice) in La Palma aligned towards Tenerife (visible in the upper right corner). The quantum source is located inside a portacabin (not shown here) and is connected to the transmitter optics module via standard optical fibre.



Edited by cleeen (08/01/07 11:33 PM)

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: cleeen]
    #7250237 -

> Dont you think we should stop saying "c is the speed of light"

Nope. By definition, the symbol C represents the scalar speed of light in a vacuum. The value of C is a constant regardless of the velocity (speed and direction) of the observer. I suppose we could go back a hundred years and call it V instead of C the way Maxwell did in his original equations... though again, the reason it was changed by Einstein from V to C is because the speed of light (in vacuum) is constant in all cases.

> after all its also the speed of the radio

What, pray tell, is "the radio"? I can only imagine that you mean "radio waves" which are light and travel at the speed of light which we use the symbol c to represent.

> Speed of Radio waves just sounds slower doesn't it ?

Every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. Every radio wave is a light wave, but not every light wave is radio wave. Calling light waves radio waves is only correct in a very small region of the spectrum.

> Speed of electricity might be the more uniform denominator

Unfortunately, electricity doesn't have a speed. Charge, one component of electricity, can flow and certainly has a speed. Electrons also propagate down a conductor, but they move very slow.

> considering how we can convert electricity into just about any phase cycle

Eh, what?

> Communication faster than light ?

By our current understanding of physics, not possible.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: cleeen]
    #7250401 -

Dont you think we should stop saying "c is the speed of light" .. after all its also the speed of the radio

Radio waves and light are the same thing at different wavelength. Photons give rise to both phenomena.

he weird quantum effect called 'entanglement' remains intact over a distance of 144 kilometres

The entanglement experiments people often naively reference as evidence of superluminal speeds are misunderstandings by laypeople who don't understand the physics involved.

What entanglement permits is for two distant people to each know what the other must be seeing. No information can be transmitted this way, however, because imparting information onto one of the the two entangled entities immediately destroys the entanglement.

Cleeen, write to these people and ask them yourself if they can communicate faster than light using entanglement. Don't take my word for it. You're stuck and won't make any progress understanding physics as long as you keep looking for a way to refute what many thousands of experiments have shown to be true instead of accepting the truth, whatever it may be.

A good scientist accepts the results, no matter if they like them or not. The truth is still the truth.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: Seuss]
    #7250600 -

Quote:
Quote:
> Dont you think we should stop saying "c is the speed of light"



Nope. By definition, the symbol C represents the scalar speed of light in a vacuum. The value of C is a constant regardless of the velocity (speed and direction) of the observer. I suppose we could go back a hundred years and call it V instead of C the way Maxwell did in his original equations... though again, the reason it was changed by Einstein from V to C is because the speed of light (in vacuum) is constant in all cases.




Then it would be the ol familiar E=mv^2 which makes more sense to me anyway but there you go .. eitherway i do not consider the term "speed of light" to reasonably translate to "the speed of the electromagnetic spectum" .
As it is said "all squares are rectangles and not all rectangles are squares" ~similarly~ "all light is part of the electromagnetic spectrum but not all of the electromagnetic spectrum is light".

Here is one definition .. and one that i would use myself
Quote:
light, visible electromagnetic radiation. Of the entire electromagnetic spectrum, the human eye is sensitive to only a tiny part, the part that is called light. The wavelengths of visible light range from about 350 or 400 nm to about 750 or 800 nm. The term “light” is often extended to adjacent wavelength ranges that the eye cannot detect—to infrared radiation, which has a frequency less than that of visible light, and to ultraviolet radiation and black light, which have a frequency greater than that of visible light.




The continued use of the speed of light when referring to the speed of the entire electromagnetic spectrum is needlessly confusing .
Thats why its called "the electromagnetic spectrum" ..


Quote:
.. "radio waves" which are light and travel at the speed of light which we use the symbol c to represent.



see- "radio waves" are "light waves" .. oh and light are light waves too ... i dont buy it! , and i wouldn't sell it !!

Quote:
Quote:
> Speed of Radio waves just sounds slower doesn't it ?



Every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. Every radio wave is a light wave, but not every light wave is radio wave. Calling light waves radio waves is only correct in a very small region of the spectrum.



Of the what spectrum ? .. of the electromagnetic spectrum
The electromagnetic spectrum was happily propogating at 3x10^8 well before light was formally included . So far common sense and logic and history are all in one team there , with confusion ambiguity and a minority in the other.
Physicists are very competent professionals no doubt but linguistic skill is i submit not one of their strengths in general.


Quote:
Quote:
> Speed of electricity might be the more uniform denominator




Unfortunately, electricity doesn't have a speed. Charge, one component of electricity, can flow and certainly has a speed. Electrons also propagate down a conductor, but they move very slow.




Electricity must have a speed .. not that i know what it is .. but just as for the conditions set for light what is the speed of an electron arc signal across a perfect conductor ? .. and what is the orbital speed of an electron in an atomic structure ?

>>> considering how we can convert electricity into just about any phase cycle
>>Eh, what?
My apologies into any of the electromagnetic phases ..

Quote:
Quote:
> Communication faster than light ?



By our current understanding of physics, not possible.





.. Who's current understanding ?
What is it about quantum mechanics that makes your determine it is not possible ? i see this mentioned alot , but i just dont see the limitation , a technical limitation perhaps in regards of the quantum computer not being properly functional yet .. but an absolute non-understanding of using quantum 'mechanics' in computing/communication is not universal..

e.g.

Plants are proven doing it ..

Quote:
Quantum mechanical effects make photosynthesis 100% efficient
Through photosynthesis, green plants and cyanobacteria are able to transfer sunlight energy to molecular reaction centers for conversion into chemical energy with nearly 100-percent efficiency. Speed is the key – the transfer of the solar energy takes place almost instantaneously so little energy is wasted as heat.
...
Fleming is the Deputy Director of Berkeley Lab, a professor of chemistry at UC Berkeley, and an internationally acclaimed leader in spectroscopic studies of the photosynthetic process. In a paper entitled, Evidence for wavelike energy transfer through quantum coherence in photosynthetic systems, he and his collaborators report the detection of “quantum beating” signals, coherent electronic oscillations in both donor and acceptor molecules, generated by light-induced energy excitations, like the ripples formed when stones are tossed into a pond.



And computing is doing it ..
Quote:
Successful calculations with two quantum bits
A quantum computer is based on the amazing properties of quantum systems. In these a quantum bit, also known as a qubit, exists in two states at the same time and the information from two qubits is entangled in a way that has no equivalent whatsoever in the normal world.





--------------------
It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..


Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!

Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: cleeen]
    #7250782 -

> Then it would be the ol familiar E=mv^2 which makes more sense to me anyway but there you go

It is the exact same equation... the only difference is the symbol you have chosen to use to represent the constant speed of light. The symbol C was chosen over the symbol V to stress that the speed (of light) is a constant.

> "all light is part of the electromagnetic spectrum but not all of the electromagnetic spectrum is light"

It depends upon how you define light. If light is defined as the part of the spectrum that allowed humans to see, then you would be correct. It would be more accurate to call it "visible light", but ...

> Electricity must have a speed

Why? What is the speed of water being stored in a water tower?


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: Seuss]
    #7251489 -

Quote:
Quote:
> Then it would be the ol familiar E=mv^2 which makes more sense to me anyway but there you go



It is the exact same equation... the only difference is the symbol you have chosen to use to represent the constant speed of light. The symbol C was chosen over the symbol V to stress that the speed (of light) is a constant.



Yes . However, V for Velocity is written into the language of Physics itself . As i recall there was some differentiation between v and V , one being the v for velocity and the other being the constant , and it was the little v that was assigned to the constant used as in e=mv^2.
Vectors have velocity .

Learning is one thing , but progress often is led by instinct . Our thought experiments for instance are potentiated by using lexicons that are descriptive of the actuality of the event and that lend themselves to natural acts of imagination .

Quote:
Quote:
> "all light is part of the electromagnetic spectrum but not all of the electromagnetic spectrum is light"



It depends upon how you define light. If light is defined as the part of the spectrum that allowed humans to see, then you would be correct. It would be more accurate to call it "visible light", but ...



What does the word Light mean before the electromagnetic spectrum was recognised ? .. it meant Light and was only defined with its contrast to lack of light . As white is to black . If light is designated to all things visible and also invisible then it simply looses its power of description .

Quote:
Quote:
> Electricity must have a speed



Why? What is the speed of water being stored in a water tower?




Good question , electricity must have a speed because it is defined as a current , electricity that is stored like water has an effective speed of zero+- . But its constant speed is much faster .
For instance what is the speed of light when you consider an unlit candle ?

We designate Lights Velocity according to its maximum speed
Science rewards consistency and we should apply the same procedure to all our measures..
It is my understanding that in a perfect conductor electrical current or flow would be approximately the speed of light . However i think our electric-universe associates with their interstellar Plasma engineering experience would suggest it could under certain circumstances be much much faster than that .

Is this a significant thing to consider? ..Yes i think so .

Physics assigns its set velocity value as a constant , according to its maximum known "potential" , then from that we can calculate its speed in any medium/setting . So what is the maximum possible speed of an electric current ??


--------------------
It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..


Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!

Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: cleeen]
    #7252644 -

> electricity must have a speed because it is defined as a current

Hmmm... current is defined as the flow of charge... sooo... how do you explain static electricity?  :wink:

Give the following a read, if you get the chance: Why is electricity nearly impossible to understand? Because of...

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: cleeen]
    #7252681 -

.

Edited by DieCommie (11/13/16 10:12 AM)

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: Seuss]
    #7254443 -

Quote:
Quote:
> electricity must have a speed because it is defined as a current



Hmmm... current is defined as the flow of charge... sooo... how do you explain static electricity?



What is it that needs to be explained?
Static electricity is the excess charge of a body . The excess charge will i guess modulate about the overall sea of charge that exists on that body at some speed , and there is a electrical discharge (current voltage etc) when there is a favorable circuit for the electron excess to go towards .. then it becomes electricity .

Its static because of its relativity to electricity that does flow in a wire for instance , but there a great deal of instances to consider . The key point is that the static charge is a load like in a capacitor and it will discharge according to the dynamics of the surfaces/mediums involved .

I would imagine the static surface charge would resemble Plasma dynamics myself .

Quote:
Give the following a read, if you get the chance: Why is electricity nearly impossible to understand? Because of...



The reality is that electricity is one of the simplest things to understand in physics because we can observe it in everyday life and modulate it so easily .

The information transfer in a perfect conductor using electrical current is very very fast .. search on google and you will find all sorts of variations on the speed of electrical current but there is only one regard in terms of the designation of the constant and that is the same as the Velocity of light i.e. its maximum speed . And this speed is clearly very very fast , perhaps equal to the speed of Light .. perhaps tho even faster according to the quantum mechanics and perfect conductivity .


--------------------
It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..


Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!

Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: DieCommie]
    #7254475 -

Quote:
But none of this discussion is science, its only semantics.



Semantic is very important for progress because when used well it aids thought processes including understanding and comprehension and most of all i submit reconstruction and imagination .

And semantics is indeed a science, consider the following ..

World's first successful brain activity imaging of language cognition in new born infants using Optical Topography Neonate brain activity images exposed to A: forward speech, B: backward speech, C: no sound



Quote:
Quote:
Vectors have velocity .



No, velocity is a vector. There are other vectors that are not velocity.



The class "Vectors" includes all Velocities , and indeed velocity is one of the major constituents of Vectors . The shared "Ve" prefix there is classic progressive semantics as it should be used .


Quote:
Quote:
Good question , electricity must have a speed because it is defined as a current



Yes electricity does have a speed, and that speed is much slower than the speed of light. (electrons have mass, thus cant go the speed of light). You have to be careful when discussing the speed of electricity. There is drift velocity which is the speed of the of the net electron flow. This is very slow, on the order of 10^-4 m/s. Then there is the individual speed of each electron, which is much faster (about 10^6 m/s).



So limitations aside , the speed of information (Input..Output) in a perfect electrical conductor is what exactly ?

Quote:
Quote:
So what is the maximum possible speed of an electric current ??




maximum possible speed of an electric current < c. As you keep applying an electric field on an electron, it will accelerate. The speed will increase forever, but never surpass 'c'.



What about quantum field speeds (i.e quantum effects over a large range) what is the Speed of the information process in quantum entanglement between two electrons ? and is the excess surface charge electron of a electrical perfect conductor actually a shared pairing with all the other electrons on the surface ? ..


--------------------
It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..


Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!

Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.

Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: DieCommie]
    #7254496 -

DieCommie said:
Light can only travel at c.




i dont think that is accurate. i assume you mean light in a vacuum?


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: automan]
    #7254504 -

> i dont think that is accurate.

I would agree with you. Light can travel slower than c, but it cannot travel faster than c (as we currently understand physics). Using superatoms (Bose-Einstein condensate), it is possible to slow the speed of light by six orders (or more).


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: Seuss]
    #7254511 -

Does the light actually slow down...or is it just being absorbed/re-emitted at high rates?

Photons from the core of the sun take many millions of years to reach the sun's surface...but that is because they are constantly being knocked around, absorbed, and re-emitted.

So is it more correct to say that the speed of light never changes...but that light is absorbed/re-emitted more with higher concentrations of matter?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: trendal]
    #7254526 -

> Does the light actually slow down...or is it just being absorbed/re-emitted at high rates?

Slows down, from what I understand. In one experiment I read, they were actually able to stop the light completely in the condensate. Lemme see if I can find some info...

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/BEC_background.htm

Quote:
In February 1999, a team of researchers from Harvard University led by Lene Vestergaard Hau used the BEC (Bose-Einstein condensate) to slow light—which normally travels at 186,000 miles per second—to just 38 miles per hour by shining a laser light through the condensate. In 2001, Hau's team announced that it had briefly brought a light beam to a complete stop.



http://www.physicscentral.net/people/2002/hau.html
Quote:
her group took its experiments a step further by getting light inside a Bose-Einstein Condensate to stop completely. While the light pulse was totally compressed and contained entirely within the condensate, the team abruptly turned off the coupling laser. This adjustment left the light trapped inside. When they turned the coupling laser back on, the original light pulse came out the other end. “We can park a light pulse in the cloud for a millisecond,” Hau said. “It might sound short to you, but it's really long - long enough for light at its normal speed to travel 300 kilometers - and there's no doubt that we can get the storage times up.”




--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: Seuss]
    #7254544 -

That still doesn't explain why the light pulse was "slowed down"...if you ask me it's just more absorbing/emitting going on.

Light slowing down seems as far-fetched to me as light speeding up...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: trendal]
    #7254826 -

from the way i understand it light slows down because of the mediums it is passing through. particles in the medium give friction to the light waves. i think its friction anyway. that why light travels its constant speed in a vacuum but slows down in other mediums. from what i remember, the wave that actually slows down is usually seperate from the constant beam. it actually seperates and the new wave will have its own particles that cycle the same speed as the wave but flow in the opposite direction of the wave.

i may be incorrect though.

cleen are you trying to propose that most scientists today are wrong and we should be working on communicating information faster than light? i think there have been demonstrations where light beams faster than the constant do not hold information. so i guess unless theres a model of information that we are unaware of yet in this realm then i dont see it as being possible. but then maybe we do have a few things wrong that wouldnt surprise me either.

as far as this thread goes. the evidence presented is convincing me that information as we know it does not travel past the constant speed of light.

peace

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Re: Information travelling faster than 'light' .. [Re: darnold]
    #7254982 -

You can't think of light as having "friction" or rubbing up against something (friction is, itself, a property of the electromagnetic force).

If light interacts with something, which it must do in order to "slow down", it does so via individual photons being absorbed and emitted by the electrons surrounding the atoms of the substance.

Unless they can provide some kind of reason for light slowing down - which doesn't involve the photons interacting with the material - I think that what we are seeing is not an actual reduction in the speed of light but an increase in the number of interactions the photon must undergo to traverse the material.

After all, isn't the space between atoms a vacuum? And isn't the speed of light well defined in a vacuum? So then why would light slow down in a substance if not for interacting with that substance?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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