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Dutch seek to rein in vice
    #7105172 -

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003760323_dutch24.html

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands — For years, W.B. Kranendonk was a lone ranger in Dutch politics — the editor of an orthodox Christian newspaper in a nation that has legalized prostitution, euthanasia, abortion and same-sex marriage and allows the personal use of marijuana.

Today, with an orthodox Christian political party in the government for the first time, and with immigration anxieties fueling a national search for identity, the country that has been the world's most socially liberal political laboratory is rethinking its anything-goes policies.

And suddenly, Kranendonk no longer seems so all alone.

"People in high political circles are saying it can't be good to have a society so liberal that everything is allowed," said Kranendonk, editor of Reformist Daily and an increasingly influential voice that resonates in the shifting mainstream of Dutch public opinion.

In cities across the Netherlands, mayors and town councils are closing down shops where marijuana is sold, rolled and smoked. Municipalities are shuttering the brothels where prostitutes have been allowed to ply their trade legally. Parliament is considering a ban on the sale of hallucinogenic "magic mushrooms." Orthodox Christian members of Parliament have introduced a bill that would allow civil officials with moral objections to refuse to perform gay marriages. And Dutch authorities are trying to curtail the activities of an abortion-rights group that assists women in neighboring countries where abortions are illegal.

The effort to rein in the Netherlands' famed social liberties is not limited to the small, newly empowered Christian Union party, which holds two of the 16 ministries in the coalition government formed this year. Increasingly, politicians from the more center-left Labor Party are among the most outspoken proponents of closing some brothels and marijuana shops, known here as "coffee shops."

"Has the Netherlands changed? Yes," said Frank de Wolf, a Labor Party member of the Amsterdam City Council. "There is not only a different mood among our people and politicians but there are different problems now."

The Netherlands is going through the same racial, ethnic and religious metamorphosis as the rest of Western Europe: Large influxes of black, Arab and Muslim immigrants are changing the social complexion of an overwhelmingly white, Christian nation struggling with its loss of homogeneity.

But here those anxieties are exacerbated by alarm over the international crime organizations that have infiltrated the country's prostitution and drug trades, the increasing prevalence of trafficking in women and children across its borders, and dismay over the Netherlands' image as an international tourist destination for drugs and sexual debauchery.

"In the past, we looked at legal prostitution as a women's liberation issue; now it's looked at as exploitation of women and should be stopped," said de Wolf.

He said Amsterdam's police force is overwhelmed and ill-equipped to fight the sophisticated foreign organized-crime networks operating in the city. Laws designed to regulate prostitution and brothel operators have instead opened the trade to criminal gangs, according to de Wolf and other city officials.

"Amsterdam has a reputation that you can do everything here," de Wolf said. "That's not the way I want people to look at Amsterdam."

Those same concerns have prompted some cities to bar tourists from their marijuana and hashish shops. Some localities now require patrons of the shops to show Dutch identity cards to gain entry, and a new nationwide law forbids the sale of alcohol in shops that sell pot and hash.

Some lawmakers have proposed requiring the shops to warn their customers about the dangers of cannabis, mimicking the warning labels on tobacco and alcohol products.

Ivo Opstelten, the mayor of Rotterdam, the second-largest Dutch city, announced this month that he will close all marijuana shops within 250 yards of a school — nearly half of the city's 62 shops.

Michael Veling, 52, proprietor of an Amsterdam coffee shop where a joint sells for $5.50, said politicians are looking for any excuse to scale back the sale of soft drugs.

James Kennedy, professor of contemporary history at the Free University of Amsterdam, describes the attitude as a national "weariness with moral squalor — the Dutch have grown tired of it and unwilling to put up with it."

Leaders of the Christian Union say they are not pushing to banish legalized prostitution or soft drugs. And no officials are discussing rollbacks on same-sex marriage, euthanasia or abortion, even though the party opposes all three.

Instead, the party and other leaders who agree with some of its stances are "copying from the United States," according to Rebecca Gomperts, founder of Women on Waves, an organization that provides Internet counseling on abortions and charters ships to provide off-shore abortion advice to women in European countries that do not allow abortions.

"They are chopping away at the edges so that people don't notice," Gomperts said, "resetting the norm of what is accepted practice."


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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice *DELETED* [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7105584 -

Post deleted by pB0t

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: pB0t]
    #7105708 -

They do that for quite a while :mad:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7105851 -

Oh God damnit


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-CUBErt
:cubie::levitate::cubie:

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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: CUBErt]
    #7106267 -

CUBErt said:
Oh God damnit



seconded


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read books

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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: Jackenobi]
    #7106415 -

Jackenobi said:
CUBErt said:
Oh God damnit



seconded



They do one thing in pubic and another behind closed doors.


  :sun:


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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:

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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: KaptKid]
    #7106715 -

death to christians


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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: chemiKalz]
    #7106880 -

Indeed, this sucks.

Hell, I might even end up moving back to the UK.

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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7106963 -

Well, it's useful to remember that in Holland, the government has a lot of parties that appear and disappear, gain and lose power and they must form coalitions with other parties in order to get their agendas passed and so a certain amount of compromise will aways take place. This has a mitigating effect on the political landscape and nothing is ever really politically permanant there. Things can change at an instant and all it takes is a major fuckup or scandal, or widespread public outrage at the party in power.

As for the problem of criminality and mafia involvement in the soft drugs trade...this is partially because of the "gedoog beleid" or "policy of tolerance" in which soft drugs are not really legalized, but merely tolerated and regulated on the consumer/coffeeshop end of things. No police or politicians want to discuss the back door of the coffeeshops--how the cannabis gets there, who supplies it--and this is where the criminal element comes into things. Also, it is my perception that the Netherlands is a somewhat easy place to launder money through, because of the half-assed regulations of these cash-only type of businesses (coffeeshops and brothels) and the government is eager to take tax money from other cash-based fronts for illegal money, like shitty telecom stores, barber shops where you never see anyone getting a haircut and pizzerias that have no oven. So for them to blame any of this shit on morality or something is short-sighted politics of fear-mongering that will only be as successful while people are ignorant and fearful.

And like Kapt Kid said, they do one thing in public and another behind closed doors. I have found this to be very true. While the Dutch government is fairly free of corruption, they do talk a good game in public and then only weakly enforce policies that they know will be unenforceable and not even worth enforcing.

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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: champ]
    #7108340 -

So let me get this straight. According to the C.Orthodox party (which I suppose wants what is best for the country and its people),

they want to shut down coffeshops and force ppl to buy their weed from dealers,and therefore socialize with shady characters,get exposed to other drugs,exposed to adulterated drugs,face social exclusion,stigma and possible jail time.And give even more power to the drug cartels.

Then they want to ban mush,therefore forcing ppl to hunt for them and face the danger of poisoning,or get them from dealers.

After that,they want to make prostitution illegal,forcing prostitutes to find pimps,loose their rights and privileges as active parts of society etc etc.

Christianity = Hypocrisy


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I have no idea what I am talking about but I do know I say things you don't understand and if you do understand what I am saying then you are wrong.

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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: John Smith]
    #7108382 -

I doubt this will ever happen though.
More than 60% of tourism is for those reasons and it's not in their interest to shut down coffeshops, ban mushrooms or prostitution :shrug:

Edit: but yes, Christianity = bull shit


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Edited by MushroomTrip (06/29/07 06:38 PM)

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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: John Smith]
    #7108433 -

John Smith said:
So let me get this straight. According to the C.Orthodox party (which I suppose wants what is best for the country and its people),

they want to shut down coffeshops and force ppl to buy their weed from dealers,and therefore socialize with shady characters,get exposed to other drugs,exposed to adulterated drugs,face social exclusion,stigma and possible jail time.And give even more power to the drug cartels.

Then they want to ban mush,therefore forcing ppl to hunt for them and face the danger of poisoning,or get them from dealers.

After that,they want to make prostitution illegal,forcing prostitutes to find pimps,loose their rights and privileges as active parts of society etc etc.

Christianity = Hypocrisy



Well put :borat:


--------------------
-CUBErt
:cubie::levitate::cubie:

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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7110037 -

I HATE religions. I'm ok if they feel a burning passion to waste their time believing in a non-existent "god", but as they always have to make others suffer because of their crap.. We don't need a "god" to explain anything nowadays. Maybe someday people can look at religion and have a good laugh at these primitive times.


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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: Tech]
    #7112966 -

this is going to completely backfire


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"I'm guessing the 'ancient lost drug' of india is psychedelic mushrooms. The correlation between sacred cows (in hinduism) and magic mushrooms growing on cow dung is too strong to ignore, if you ask me."

As the ocean waves, the universe "peoples"
~Alan Watts~

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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: Muufokfok]
    #7113006 -

oh fucking great.... i havent even been there yet!! :hissyfit:


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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: Tech]
    #7115518 -

Tech said:
I HATE religions. I'm ok if they feel a burning passion to waste their time believing in a non-existent "god", but as they always have to make others suffer because of their crap.. We don't need a "god" to explain anything nowadays. Maybe someday people can look at religion and have a good laugh at these primitive times.



organized religion is for the weak


--------------------
"I'm guessing the 'ancient lost drug' of india is psychedelic mushrooms. The correlation between sacred cows (in hinduism) and magic mushrooms growing on cow dung is too strong to ignore, if you ask me."

As the ocean waves, the universe "peoples"
~Alan Watts~

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Re: Dutch seek to rein in vice [Re: Muufokfok]
    #7115554 -

BoxyBrown said:
Tech said:
I HATE religions. I'm ok if they feel a burning passion to waste their time believing in a non-existent "god", but as they always have to make others suffer because of their crap.. We don't need a "god" to explain anything nowadays. Maybe someday people can look at religion and have a good laugh at these primitive times.



organized religion is for the weak



i.e those who cannot handle reality and need someone to constantly tell them how to live their lives. organized religion makes me sick.


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