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General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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Christianity........the "cop out" religion.
    #7023239 -

As a whole, the Christian religions believe that, in order to get to heaven, you have to.......

Believe that Jesus was the son of god and was sacrificed for your sins.
All sin is washed away through Jesus

IMO this is a cop out.
A simple way, for simple people, to do what they want, and not feel guilty......as long as they "believe" they will go to "heaven"

The Christian "religions" take away any personal responsibility and place all their sins in a bottle for Jesus to drink when they die.



IMO the Buddhist view of Karma seems much more in harmony with the nature of things.


:levitate:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: niteowl]
    #7023293 -

duh....


--------------------
These are not the answers you should be questioning.

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: Invisible_Woe]
    #7023308 -

If Jesus was the Jewish Messiah then there would have been 1000 years of peace.

How do the Christians explain this graph?



--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: niteowl]
    #7023313 -

i definetly understand where you are coming from and while i dont subscribe to any particular faith i find buddhism the most interesting. (even the the pot smoking shroom eating sex having hindus are pretty cool)

that being said i dont believe in all the parts of buddhism. karma for instance i see as less of a universal punitive or rewarding law , and moreso your own mental constructs forming your reality. for example its not like if i give a guy 5 dollars i will get some money later, or if i steal i will get stolen from. these are fear tactics to scare the common practicer IMHO. but if i feel positive all day, and i am around other people making them feel positive, something positive will come out of it, not necessarily to YOU but in the big picture. same with negativitiy. if im always bummed and negative and worrying, i will feel shitty and not enjoy the moment and probably bring other people down.

as to their idea of reincarnation, now this is an interesting one. obviously no one KNOWS what happens after death, but from my vague understanding of the tibetan book of the dead, my readings of near death experiences, hearing various shroomery members ego-death experiences, here is what i think is meant by reincarnation. so there is really no YOU or ego in buddhism, you are inherently empty however interconnected with the world and all you experiences this gives you the illusion of what you are. you go through life with this illusion unless you manage to wake up (nirvana) and see that you are the same as everyone and everything else " something all the mystics have repeated time and time again". i believe this relates to death in this way. when you die your body goes back into the earth and it's lights out. however its not about when you die but when you are DYING. when you are DYING you may be experiencing some final moments of reality that because of your dramatically altered perception may seem like eternity. this is your last chance for liberation or self realization. if you realize here that all the things you experience are products of your own mind and you are really the same as everything else, you die with a smile of contentment. if not you will either experience the hellish feelings thoughts and ideas or the heavenly ones you had during your life on earth. when you are finally dead though nothing remains, but you see there was NEVER anything TO remain. you NEVER really existed in the first place and were just part of ultimate reality experiencing itself subjectively. so YOU never die. only the illusion of who you are dies, and reincarnation is simply that ONE ENERGY which you really are, call it god or the universe, taking another form after you die.

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: niteowl]
    #7023319 -

congrats!! :laugh:  I wouldn't totally dismiss Jesus, but there's too many Christians that go about it in a way that is kind of messed up.

I wouldn't give myself to any religion but as for philosophies, tao is pretty interesting.  Actually, it isn't but I like the realist/naturalist idea.  I feel like my life has led me to the tao philosophy, so that's where I am.  Anything else or more elaborate would just be like putting a blanket over tao.  And I don't like a lot of fluff.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

Edited by Cracka_X (06/08/07 04:02 PM)

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: niteowl]
    #7023325 -

and to add i think the christian faith is a gross depiction of what christ taught. i think christ was essentially echoing the sentiments of all other mystics and prophets and saying we are all one and should love eachother, and i think SIN is not something evil that you will be punished for but something that is essentially you forgetting your true nature. christ consciousness, nirvana , moksha. whatever you wanna call it.

all of this is just my opinion though, i have no way to prove or confirm any of the above two posts but they make the most sense to me

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: niteowl]
    #7023326 -

One meme out of many that is bad... but has fail safes to prevent its own destruction mor4 so then muslim belief, or many others. Its more powerful then you think. Ever go to a highly religious forum and post about it? The best defense isn't logic but distracting from the subject matter even if you take all their assumptions under consideration and point out the flaws on the basis that their religion evaluates it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: evolprim]
    #7023370 -

evolprim said:
and i think SIN is not something evil that you will be punished for but something that is essentially you forgetting your true nature.


Sin, I believe, is lack of understanding, ignorance (due to the former), and error. I don't think that it has anything to do with Hell and eternal damnation (the connotation which it currently has), but more to do with the natural progression of things (evolving through through correction of mistakes and problems).

As for Christianity being a cop out religion.. since, predominantly, all religions teach the 'Golden Rule' of Loving God, YourSelf and Others, don't you think that all the religions with their rituals and, in some cases, absurd rules are cop outs themselves?

Contradicted myself somewhat in that second paragraph.. lol. I mean, the religious 'fluff' surrounding/distracting from the important teachings.


--------------------

Edited by WScott (06/08/07 04:12 PM)

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: niteowl]
    #7023388 -

I'll explain what I believe as a Christian. My faith is not a condition of my salvation. Faith along with every thing else that goes along with salvation is a sovereign gift of God. In fact sinners can meet no conditions due to their fallen and imperfect nature. Christ alone redeemed His people and imputes His perfect righteousness to their account. Does this lead to riotous living since one is under grace? No way! A life of faith runs on the principle of grace, that as we have been shown mercy, we show others mercy, yet we are free from any condemnation of the law. A new internal nature is created in the truly converted. Grace motivated by love is the rule of life, what a great thing!

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: fivepointer]
    #7023397 -

Quote:
fivepointer said:My faith is not a condition of my salvation.


Isn't faith the basis of your salvation? Without your faith in salvation, how would it exist?


--------------------

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: WScott]
    #7023408 -

Faith is a gift, it has no meritorious value. Faith is not something one must create in order to meet a condition of salvation. Then salvation would be a work of the law and salvation would be the reward. Salvation is not a reward, it is a free gift of grace apart from all works of the law.

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: fivepointer]
    #7023433 -

Quote:
Salvation is not a reward, it is a free gift of grace apart from all works of the law.


Yet it is only given of one believes in Jesus.

Do people of other religions (Muslims, Jews, Buddhists) get to go to heaven fivepointer?


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: niteowl]
    #7023447 -

niteowl said:
As a whole, the Christian religions believe that, in order to get to heaven, you have to.......

Believe that Jesus was the son of god and was sacrificed for your sins.
All sin is washed away through Jesus

IMO this is a cop out.
A simple way, for simple people, to do what they want, and not feel guilty......as long as they "believe" they will go to "heaven"

The Christian "religions" take away any personal responsibility and place all their sins in a bottle for Jesus to drink when they die.



IMO the Buddhist view of Karma seems much more in harmony with the nature of things.


:levitate:



The way Christianity is set up today invites and encourages people to become victims by worshiping a victim/effect. (as opposed to embracing both cause and effect)

It also can be a real mind job (IMO) for a kid to grow up in a house with those cute little figurines of Jesus hanging by nails from a cross...and then watching the people you love worshiping this macabre little thing. (imagine the morbid stories and repression this young kid must get, too)

If the kid is lucky his parents will take him to a church where there is a huge statue of the crucifixion all painted up real nice.

But Christianity is ultimately not at fault. It is simply a subject that has been used for various ends by various people throughout history.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: niteowl]
    #7023455 -

niteowl said:
Quote:
Salvation is not a reward, it is a free gift of grace apart from all works of the law.


Yet it is only given of one believes in Jesus.

Do people of other religions (Muslims, Jews, Buddhists) get to go to heaven fivepointer?


You missing what I'm saying. The faith is something God gives to His people, along with all other spiritual blessings. The motivation to give this is love, to the praise of the glory of His goodness, goodness given to a people who have no goodness.

People of other religions (who die unconverted) will be recompensed according to their works.

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: Pulsating]
    #7023466 -

Pulsating said:
niteowl said:
As a whole, the Christian religions believe that, in order to get to heaven, you have to.......

Believe that Jesus was the son of god and was sacrificed for your sins.
All sin is washed away through Jesus

IMO this is a cop out.
A simple way, for simple people, to do what they want, and not feel guilty......as long as they "believe" they will go to "heaven"

The Christian "religions" take away any personal responsibility and place all their sins in a bottle for Jesus to drink when they die.



IMO the Buddhist view of Karma seems much more in harmony with the nature of things.


:levitate:



The way Christianity is set up today invites and encourages people to become victims by worshiping a victim/effect. (as opposed to embracing both cause and effect)

It also can be a real mind job (IMO) for a kid to grow up in a house with those cute little figurines of Jesus hanging by nails from a cross...and then watching the people you love worshiping this macabre little thing. (imagine the morbid stories and repression this young kid must get, too)

If the kid is lucky his parents will take him to a church where there is a huge statue of the crucifixion all painted up real nice.

But Christianity is ultimately not at fault. It is simply a subject that has been used for various ends by various people throughout history.


Your confusing Catholicism with Christianity.  The two are poles apart.

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: fivepointer]
    #7023493 -

fivepointer said:
Pulsating said:
niteowl said:
As a whole, the Christian religions believe that, in order to get to heaven, you have to.......

Believe that Jesus was the son of god and was sacrificed for your sins.
All sin is washed away through Jesus

IMO this is a cop out.
A simple way, for simple people, to do what they want, and not feel guilty......as long as they "believe" they will go to "heaven"

The Christian "religions" take away any personal responsibility and place all their sins in a bottle for Jesus to drink when they die.



IMO the Buddhist view of Karma seems much more in harmony with the nature of things.


:levitate:



The way Christianity is set up today invites and encourages people to become victims by worshiping a victim/effect. (as opposed to embracing both cause and effect)

It also can be a real mind job (IMO) for a kid to grow up in a house with those cute little figurines of Jesus hanging by nails from a cross...and then watching the people you love worshiping this macabre little thing. (imagine the morbid stories and repression this young kid must get, too)

If the kid is lucky his parents will take him to a church where there is a huge statue of the crucifixion all painted up real nice.

But Christianity is ultimately not at fault. It is simply a subject that has been used for various ends by various people throughout history.


Your confusing Catholicism with Christianity.  The two are poles apart.


I agree that certain sects are more guilty of this practice than others, but once again, I am not blaming the subject but rather how that subject is used.

And, rightly or wrongly, it is my opinion that any religion using a bible and worshiping Jesus Christ is a Christian religion. In other words, Catholicism is Christianity with a few changes added in or maybe Christianity is Catholicism with a few things taken out? Same with 7th Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witness, Mormons, Baptists.

All *basically* Christian religions with different names and different rituals.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: fivepointer]
    #7023497 -

goodness.  please tell us what's right and what's wrong, because you obviously know. or do you?:rasta::madhamster:


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: Pulsating]
    #7023505 -

That's another of the traps used on people in Christian religions: Faith.

Faith isn't something apart from us that we have to locate and keep tucked away. It is something that we are. We are faith.

Similarly, it inverted people on the subject of the soul. Instead of being a soul who owned and occupied a body, in Christian religions one became a body who "had a soul" which one then had to take care of so it wouldn't go to hell.

Really nasty little inversion trick.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: fivepointer]
    #7023506 -

fivepointer said:
You missing what I'm saying. The faith is something God gives to His people, along with all other spiritual blessings. The motivation to give this is love, to the praise of the glory of His goodness, goodness given to a people who have no goodness.

People of other religions (who die unconverted) will be recompensed according to their works.


I fully understand where you are coming from, believe me.

You believe that God only talks to Christians......and only Christians are allowed into heaven.

I understand and I find it to be a cop out.

Do you think that if people of other religions would "think right" they would "see the light" and convert to Christianity?.......Is that the only way that god will speak to them?


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Christianity........the "cop out" religion. [Re: fivepointer]
    #7023528 -

I hope Jesus is lees patronizing than you :rastamon:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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