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Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears
    #6941221 -

Quote:
A senior police officer has said he fears the spread of CCTV cameras is leading to "an Orwellian situation".

Deputy chief constable of Hampshire Ian Readhead said Britain could become a surveillance society with cameras on every street corner.

He told the BBC's Politics Show that CCTV was being used in small towns and villages where crime rates were low.

Mr Readhead also called for the retention of some DNA evidence and the use of speed cameras to be reviewed.

His force area includes the small town of Stockbridge, where parish councillors have spent £10,000 installing CCTV.

Mr Readhead questioned whether the relatively low crime levels justified the expense and intrusion.

'Every street corner?'

"I'm really concerned about what happens to the product of these cameras, and what comes next?" he said.

"If it's in our villages, are we really moving towards an Orwellian situation where cameras are at every street corner?

"And I really don't think that's the kind of country that I want to live in."

There are up to 4.2 million CCTV cameras in Britain - about one for every 14 people.

The UK also has the world's biggest DNA database, with 3.6 million DNA samples on file.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6673579.stm


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: elbisivni]
    #6941238 -

wow thats kinda creepy... what next there gonna put cameras in are bathrooms...

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: biggysmall]
    #6941462 -

> what next there gonna put cameras in are bathrooms...

Nah, bedrooms... make certain that people aren't having immoral sex...

> There are up to 4.2 million CCTV cameras in Britain - about one for every 14 people.

Very creepy... I wonder how much each camera costs?


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: Seuss]
    #6941724 -

4.2 mil

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: biggysmall]
    #6941731 -

nah.. i would estimate about 1k per camera....... that doesnt include all the wiring and electronics and shit though

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: Seuss]
    #6942231 -

Many of these cameras are placed in the streets primarily for the purpose of traffic surveillance, but they also make use of face recognition technology. Fortunately that technology is very weak at the moment (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/09/27/face_recognition_useless_for_crowd/), but you can rest assured that it is constantly in development. As many things is this world this comes as a double edged sword, but in this day and age it is smart to be suspicious of these systems and their future applications.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: elbisivni]
    #6945813 -

> Many of these cameras are placed in the streets primarily for the purpose of traffic surveillance

Good excuse, but it is much cheaper, easier, and more effective to monitor traffic using sensors in the road rather than cameras on the light poles. Of course, sensors can't give out tickets to people that run red lights... The cameras are not for 'traffic surveillance' but rather 'traffic law enforcement'. The difference between the government working for the people and big brother government.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: Seuss]
    #6945844 -

sensors in the road can't identify auto make, type, color, etc. unless there is again a camera attached to the unit. such cameras are also described as being able to detect traffic patterns and automatically adjust the timing of stop lights to optimize efficiency - this is nothing but fluff though.

you are right though..and the difference in definition between traffic surveillance and traffic law enforcement is subtle but distinct, worthy of note.

Quote:
What about privacy issues?

Chapters of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) show concern for the prevalence of these traffic cameras. Although they concede that these cameras are in public places, they assert that police officers and transportation officials need to be properly trained when using these cameras so that the images are used properly. The ACLU points out that these cameras could capture gay parades and protest rallies, and the subjects on those videos could theoretically find themselves blackmailed. They suggest that state legislatures need to write clear procedural guidelines and legislation that addresses the how's and why's of using video surveillance, as well as the privacy issues of the subjects' likenesses when they are captured on video.

It is possible to achieve a balance between maintained public and transportation safety, while preserving citizens' privacy rights. In this age of terrorism, video surveillance won't be disappearing since it is necessary to promote and preserve safety for the greater good.



http://www.video-surveillance-guide.com/traffic-surveillance-cameras.htm

and of course, from an InfoWars/PrisonPlanet article:
Quote:
This is the prison without bars. This is the panopticon, a prison so constructed that the inspector can see each of the prisoners at all times, without being seen. This is a portrait of the accelerating movement by western governments to erect giant, powerful, all-pervading mass surveillance, tracking and control grids that will keep all populations firmly under the baleful and watchful gaze of Big Brother.



http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/070306surveillancecameras.htm

on a personal level it really creeps me out how if such a system were in place here, as I go out for late night walks I'd know that I would be one of a few people at such an hour on the street being constantly monitored, followed digitally by a man behind a wall of computer monitors somewhere, waiting for me to act odd so they can dispatch 'assistance'.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: elbisivni]
    #6946444 -

people should carry around a ladder and rip the cameras off.

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #6947021 -

I read that they are setting up a trial run of cameras with speakers attached to them that are constantly monitered. Then if they see people "being naughty" they can tell them to 'stop fighting', 'pick up their litter/cigerrete butt, 'stop litering', 'put out the spliff' etc...

Kind of reminds me of the bit in 1984 where the telescreen starts teling Winston to do his exersises properlly. About a year ago I was walking through a shopping arcade (in the UK) at night when most of the shops were shut and there wernt many people about. The PA system came on and started telling me to stop and take the boxes I'd stolen back (I hadnt stolen any boxes and wasn't carrying any boxes), I stopped where I was and looked around then assumed it must be someone else in another part of the arcade and went on. Then the voice started telling me to stop again, at this point I got a bit freaked out and ran off. I dont think it was anything to do with the goverment and was allmost certainly the shopping centre security- probally the guy on the night shift bored and messing about. But it was still quite strange and a little scary especially if the goverment starts doing it on a large scale.


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"She was able, prompt, strict and intelligent. She welcomed responsibility and kept her head in every crisis. She was an adult and self-reliant, and there was nothing she needed from anyone. Yossarian took pity and decided to help her"- Catch 22

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: elbisivni]
    #6947348 -

I wouldn't be so sure about that face recognition technology being useless. The article you published was from 2001, A LOT of research has gone into it since. I personally worked for a professor fairly famous in computer vision, and I can tell you face recognition is far better then you think it is. There are still limitations however

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: TheCow]
    #6947382 -

Las Vegas casinos use some sophisticated shit...

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: TheCow]
    #6947716 -

I'd also bet that numerous systems are much more efficient and capable than they're willing to tell us. There's a bit of a paranoia factor to that though.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: multivitamins]
    #6947752 -

Back in my days as a youth exploring the once great Wal-Mart, I'd always hear folks come on over the PA telling security to keep an eye on certain numbered cameras - the only flaw in the system was that cameras had numbers on them. So I always knew when I was being watched lol

Quote:
I read that they are setting up a trial run of cameras with speakers attached to them that are constantly monitered. Then if they see people "being naughty" they can tell them to 'stop fighting', 'pick up their litter/cigerrete butt, 'stop litering', 'put out the spliff' etc...



Another step in the wrong direction, hooray.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: elbisivni]
    #6949207 -

The paranoia factor shouldn't come into it. The nice thing about face recognition is that the most progress is done by academics, so if you want to see how far it has come. Just look at some academic journals

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: TheCow]
    #6949660 -

They already introduced the shouting cameras, I saw something about it in a news program. The news reporter drops a peice of paper and a voice from a man monitoring her shouts "pick up that rubbish!"


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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: TheCow]
    #6951386 -

> A LOT of research has gone into it since

Correct. A few years ago they discovered that it is the 3D nature of vision that allows humans to accurately identify faces... since then, the technology, at least in the experimental realm, has gotten very good. Good enough to identify individual identical twins in some cases. All the anti-terrorism money from post-9/11 has helped encourage research in this area.


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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #6951410 -

cowabunga_dude said:
They already introduced the shouting cameras, I saw something about it in a news program. The news reporter drops a peice of paper and a voice from a man monitoring her shouts "pick up that rubbish!"



I don't really understand the purpose of this.

At most a guard could monitor only a handful of cameras effectively. Once the guard has to monitor many, some infractions become very hard to enforce.

For example, is that a joint, or just a hand-rolled cig? Did you just kick a piece of trash, or a fallen leaf? Are you stealing things, or just putting your hands in your pockets because they're cold?

Clearly there aren't enough guards to watch all of the cameras, and since an unwatched camera is completely useless (except as a deterent), what's the point?

Are they banking on deterrence (which I would argue is silly, because then why do you need the speaker cameras if everyone is already "deterred")? Do they have a pipe dream of getting enough guards to one day watch all the cameras?

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: Economist]
    #6952591 -

Quote:
Do they have a pipe dream of getting enough guards to one day watch all the cameras?



Of course not, they're hoping super computers will be able to do it for them, super computers that don't need to be paid on a regular basis.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Police chief's 'Orwellian' fears [Re: elbisivni]
    #6952776 -

Quote:
A senior police officer has said he fears the spread of CCTV cameras is leading to "an Orwellian situation".



talk about a day late and a dollar short...

the ccds have been up for a few years already... right?


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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