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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1?
    #6898657 -

Any suggestions for improving the quality of my tracks once it is all finished?

I use cool edit 2.1 and I'd really like to get the quality of my tracks as close as possible, with what i'm working with anyhow, to industry standards.

Any tips or tricks? :smile:

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: Spooge]
    #6899703 -

hmm I use adobe audition 2.0 which was built from Cool Edit, so hopefully I can help.

what stage are you at in the song? have you tracked everything? mixed? eq'd?

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: adamj]
    #6901919 -

adamj said:
hmm I use adobe audition 2.0 which was built from Cool Edit, so hopefully I can help.

what stage are you at in the song? have you tracked everything? mixed? eq'd?


Yeah, I'm using cool edit 2.1, which is pretty much the same thing.

I am at the stage where the song is pretty much done, with what I know and can do with the program anyway.  I've made say, for example, a bass line, rythm guitar and a lead solo.  I've made a couple layers of each line to give it that "thickness".  Before mixing though I've screwed around with the graphic equalizer on each, used the "remove light hiss" from each, added chorus to the rythm and bass, adjusted volume on each track and it's stereo positioning and faded in the beginning and faded out the ending.  When playing all tracks at once, it sounds like a decent full song.

Then I mix them down to a single track, sometimes messing around with the graphic equalizer again and/or using the unwanted noise section of effects(click%pop eliminator, hiss removal, etc).

I know there must be more I can do to get them a little better quality.  Granted, an actual mic might help(I'm using a 10 dollar webcam/mic to pick up the noise from my guitar amp).  I can't play very loud, thus not getting the EXACT tone I wanted(more of a problem with distortion, less when playing clean). 

But putting that aside, you have any advice to certain things I should be doing to these finalized tracks, certain effects or eq things or anything for that matter, to help get them sounding better and closer to industry standards?  Even if it's going to make a miniscule difference that means the world to me :smile:

Thanks again, can't wait to hear your input. :thumbup:

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: Spooge]
    #6902123 -

definitely. Allright, big post coming up.

Hopefully in cool edit it has the multiband compressor (under dynamics or amplitude I believe)

apply that to the guitar, bass, vocals, drums, and then again to the master fader/track.

(in the multiband compressor, select the button link band controls that moves all the low, mid, mid high, high band faders and settings together in unison.)

Now... using a compressor is tricky. There is no way to actually teach someone how to use a compressor. The trick is, if you can hear the compressor working... you did it too much. LoL. messed up I know

But in a nutshell I'll try and get you started off in the right direction.

When applying the compressor.. set the ratio really high like 25:1, the threshold really low like -45db, and the attack and release really low like 0.1ms

now.. slowly start raising the attack and pay attention to what it does to what you're listening too. I would also suggest searching the inet for an explaination of how a compressor works :tongue:.

Once you decide on a attack time.. do the same with the release. pay attention to how it's affecting your sound. Find a setting and move onto the compression ratio

ideally with the compression you want it pretty low.. like 4:1 is pretty drastic.
But either way, start lowering it and again pay attention to what is happening.

Now onto the threshold.. slowly start raising it and etc. You can even start turning up the gain.. because basically a compressor is squishing the top of a sound wave...

Finally you'll want to add a hard limiter onto your master track. Make sure the input gain/boost is 0db and set the limit max amplitude to -0.6
What this is, if any sound goes higher than -0.6db it gets cut off immedietly. Thus effectively removing any clipping.
You could also do this within the multiband compressor as it has a limiter function too.

Now.. create a mixdown of the whole song. Load the .wav file into a seperate session and again apply a compressor to that track too.

This is like really roughly explaining how to get closer to that pro sound. What gives songs that nice professional feel is compressors... but usually they have like 10 $5000 compressors in the studio doing this shit and all we got is a little FX in our program haha :tongue:

also some other tips off the top of my head.
When applying EQ to tracks.. always take away rather than add. For example.. when EQing a vocal.. drop all of the bass because vocals don't really carry bass. They are almost totally focused on the midrange.
This will clear up more room for the bass guitar and kick drum.
Same goes for guitars.. drop the low frequencies and let the bass guitar fill up more.
With bass guitar.. drop all the high frequencies.
You shouldn't have to add any + volume to the EQ.


And even with all that said.. the secret to great sounding songs is the actual tracking.. meaning getting your vocals recorded dry as best as you possibly can and as close to the final sound you want. You shouldn't have to be throwing EQ's on everything to get the sound you want.

Always have your bass guitar centered... or equally panned left and right.


anyways hope that helps.

I would highly suggest reading up on home recording and mixing. There's an absolute shitload to know. :tongue:

good luck

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: adamj]
    #6902264 -

wow man...thank you very much :thumbup:  There was some great stuff in that post :cool:  Equally big post, be prepared :wink:

I checked though and I don't have an multiband compressor.  There is something called the "Dynamics Processing" and it says this:

"The dynamics processor varies the output level of a waveform, based on its input level. This lets you limit or compress the dynamic range of a sample so that the perceived loudness is kept below a defined limit, or so that the waveform’s overall dynamic range is kept at roughly the same level.

You can also expand or gate the signal so that low-level signals are reduced in level, thereby increasing the perceived dynamic range, or so that signals that fall below a certain threshold (i.e., noise) are eliminated.

Control of the Dynamics Processor is carried out through any of the four tabbed sheets:

Graphic Tab
Traditional Tab
Attack/Release Tab
Band Limiting Tab
"

I just opened it up, got a finished track in there for examples sake, and it has a huge bunch of presets like, "noise gate @10db, noise gate @20db, limit soft -6db w/boost, limit soft -12db w/boost(these presets keep going up to -24db), limit hards -6db to -12db, desser light, desser medium, desser hard, 3:1 Expander < 10db, 3:1 -18 +3db drums," and so on. 

But getting back to customizing it myself, under the attack/release for example, it has options like, "output gain, attack time(ms units), release time(ms units),(these three are under the heading "Gain Processor")...then under "level detector" there is, "input gain, attack time(ms), release time(ms), and an option for peak or rms".  Then there is also a "lookahead time"(ms).

Under the tab band limiting it has "low cutoff and high cutoff(in hz)".

But I think under the tradition tab is where I need to be, because it has to do with those ratios you were talking about.  Under that tab there is a "sections area" that goes from 2-6, but only the 2 section is accessible(all the others are faded).  Across from the section is a pull down list with "compress, flat or expand" for options.  Across from that is a "ratio :1" and then beside that it says "above ___db threshold"

So it reads like this all the way across:

Section (2)(radio button for selection section 2, but all the others are not selectable) - flat/compress/expand - Ratios ___:1 Above ___db and Below ___db - Threshold of ____db

And then it also has an "output compensation(gain) ___db"

hehe hope I haven't lost you yet with all this junk :wink:

SO, for example(I know I'd need to work from here, but just for starters), I would want to select "compress", not sure what ration above or below would be, but then a threshold of -45db.  Then under the attack/release tab(there is attack/release under Gain Processor AND Level detector so I'm not sure which one or both?) I would want to put 0.1 for each, keeping the output gain at 0db or the INput gain at 0db?

I hope you take the time to read through this and hope it's somewhat understandable.  I'm still sort of confused because i don't have that multiband compressor you talked about, so I'm finding it hard to follow.

Either way, you made some great tips.

Especially about EQ...i was always using a preset called "bright and punchy" and finely tweaking it.  I am ALWAYS adding to all my guitar and bass.  That makes a lot of sense to cut out the highs on the bass, cut out the lows on the guitar and so on.  very cool :thumbup:

For example, I'll talk about my track for the composition project that will be posted today:

I recorded a rythm guitar line till I thought it was the best I was gonna get it, used the click and pop eliminator, added the eq that I talked about, used the remove hiss option, added chorus, faded in the beginning and end and then saved it.  I inserted the saved file again, so the same track, so now I have two of the same.  I adjusted volume and set it so that the one track played all the way to the left and the other played all the way to the right.

Then when I recorded the bass I did all that same stuff except at the end, I made it so that one bass track played -50 to the left and the other played +50 to the right.

Then I recorded a solo and did all the same things, except adding chorus(had a different effect already on the guitar) and I inserted the final track twice so I had 3 of the same track.  I set 2 of the tracks to -75 and +75(stereo placement) and left the one right in the middle.

I mixed them all when it sounded done, opened it up in another session, used the remove his option again and adjusted volume.

So in the end, now that I see it, I used way to much eq.  And once I learn to use this dynamics processor and limiter thing, it seems I can improve the quality quite a bit(like I said, even a tiny bit is a lot to me :laugh:)

So yea, if you could definetely give me a little insight, with the options described, how to use that dynamics processor(if it's even close to the same thing that is).  Thanks again

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: Spooge]
    #6902747 -

I have the same Dynamics Processing in Audition 2.0

To be honest, I've never used it once. Well I've fiddled around with it but it just seems too confusing. Well not confusing but if you've never done compression before like you have, I wouldn't suggest mucking around with that. Because one setting greatly effects every other setting, etc.

What would be even better, is I suggest actually downloading a torrent of Audition or a program called Cubase. Both of those programs are better than Cool Edit and would help you on your way a lot more. If you had to choose one I would say Cubase. Or if you want to whip out some $$ invest in an MBox and get Pro Tools.

"I inserted the final track twice so I had 3 of the same track. "

I noticed you did this and I gotta say no no no! :laugh: This is a common mistake. What you're trying to do is overdub. When you copy and paste the same track over itself, it just increases the volume and doesn't actually fatten the sound. Want you want to do is record your solo, then play back and record your solo again overtop on a new track. Then record the solo again overtop of the other two.. etc.

You can do this with every instrument and vocal and it'll give you a nice fat sound. Almost every song on the radio has a lot of overdubs. I know hip hop vocals are overdubbed like 65 times, something ridiculous like that.

But yeah if for the time being you want to use the dynamics processing, stick to the presets.

cheers!

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: adamj]
    #6902795 -

"I noticed you did this and I gotta say no no no!"

How you know? hehe  I've only ever done it once...on this new composition song that will be posted shortly.

"Want you want to do is record your solo, then play back and record your solo again overtop on a new track. Then record the solo again overtop of the other two.. etc."

I'm not sure I understand.  In the past I would record the rythm say, and then in the track underneath hit record again and try and play the exact same thing.  The problem with that is, even the smallest sounds and nuances, the little differences, present themself so that it's obvious there is two lines of the same exact playing.

to make it EXACTLY the same, all I do is insert the wave into a new track.  So in track 1 say, I have "rythm guitar layer 1" and in track 2 I have "rythm guitar layer 2".  It's the exact same playing, only in a different track. I'm befuddled on what you mean :confused:

I really have been thinking of downloading cubase or audition.  i"m leaning towards Audition because it would be much more familiar...I suck at change :tongue:  ...and I'd have multiband processing :wink:

So audition 2.0? that's the newest one?

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: Spooge]
    #6902810 -

How many tracks?

I thought CE could only use DX plugins, not VST, is that true?

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: Spooge]
    #6902836 -

What I mean is if you record something. Then just take that newly recorded wave file and insert it onto another track so you have the exact same recording playing over itself, all it will do is increase the volume. This is the wrong way.

But you had it right. Record one rhythm track, and then record a second new rhythm track and try to play as exact as possible. Sometimes it's hard to get it (that's why some albums take 2 years to make haha) just right but keep at it and I'm sure you'll nail it down. If Jimmy Page can do it, you can do it :tongue:
You could even change up the sound for each new recording.

Do this as many times as you'd like. Only downfall I see is soon you'll end up with 20 audio tracks and your comp might get sluggish.

As for the new progs. I would suggest Cubase over Audition. Once you get to learn Cubase you'll love it, everyone I know that uses it does. It's not difficult to learn at all, pretty much the same setup as cool edit.

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: brodus24]
    #6902847 -

brodus24 said:
How many tracks?

I thought CE could only use DX plugins, not VST, is that true?


i don't think it is true. But I don't use Cubase so...

a quick google search might yield some answers

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: adamj]
    #6902866 -

Quote:
But you had it right. Record one rhythm track, and then record a second new rhythm track and try to play as exact as possible. Sometimes it's hard to get it (that's why some albums take 2 years to make haha) just right but keep at it and I'm sure you'll nail it down. If Jimmy Page can do it, you can do it


wow man, I never though that's how they did it.

I tried doing the "wrong way" for the first time on my new track(in the votes right now) and it seemed to work nicer...all the while I was thinking that's how the pros do it.  I thought that's how they add there multiple layers.

So you say it adds only volume when doing it that way, but doesn't it essentially do the same thing when you do it the way I used to do it?  Because either way, it's another track/recording, with the same noise going through it, same background noise and such?

K, well I'll definetely have to check out cubase though.

Again man, I have to thank you very much.  You've helped me out more than you know.  Thanks for taking the time out to explain all this stuff to a newb at this recording stuff :thumbup:  Very appreciated

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: Spooge]
    #6905543 -

Oh boy, mastering is such a complex issue...

I'll try to post a mastering guide for you in the next few hours wen I get back to my laptop so you can start reading about it.

What you should do is send me the songs and I'll masterize them for you tho :laugh:


--------------------
:whatwhat:

There's no better way to rock out than with your cock out!!

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: Colonel Kurtz Ph.D]
    #6905953 -

Colonel Kurtz Ph.D said:
Oh boy, mastering is such a complex issue...

I'll try to post a mastering guide for you in the next few hours wen I get back to my laptop so you can start reading about it.

What you should do is send me the songs and I'll masterize them for you tho :laugh:


right on and hell ya to both of those offers :thumbup: :cool:

Very appreciated man

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: Spooge]
    #6912090 -

To get a professional finalized sound you have to do three things in this order:

1. Capture audio properly
2. Mix audio properly
3. Master audio properly

Capturing audio properly includes using proper impedance matching, quiet preamps, short cable runs, proper mic selection and placement, and phase management/correction.


Mixing properly includes MONITORING your mix in an area designed for mixing and using the best speakers you can buy or rent. Mixing is how you control MOST of what a person hears on a record.

Mastering is a whole art form in itself. The main goals of mastering are: 1. Volume Maximization, 2, track-to-track balance, 3. Transient Control, 4. Bass "Tuning", 5. Stereo Widening

MIXING is done in a multi-track environment.

MASTERING is applied to a two-track mixdown.

No plugin or "trick" is going to fix errors made in the first two steps. In fact, the better you do step 1, the easier step 2 is, likewise your proficiency at recording and mixing determines how good your master can be.

I've been working professionally in the business for 8 years.

Here are a few things I would recommend:

1. Purchase a high-quality single or dual channel preamp. This is even more important than mics. An Avalon has 13 tubes in it and components that are very expensive. A Behringer has 1 tube and has the same kind of components you find in RC cars and walkie talkies. Even a poorer quality mic will sound fat through a stellar pre.

2. ALWAYS track multiple rhythm guitar tracks for a "thicker" sound. MOve the mic around. Mic placement and type is better than any EQ.

3. EQ is for cutting, not boosting. Attempting to boost frequencies that aren't there only raises the noise floor. Instead, cut frequencies to bring out the fundamentals.

I have more to add, but I'm tired!

Good luck with your project!

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: brodus24]
    #6914339 -

good info in there man...very good stuff. thanks! :thumbup: :cool:

I've had my eyes on getting a preamp for awhile.  Won't be happening for another year(leaving the country to travel for a year), so just trying to do the best with what I got.

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: Spooge]
    #6914908 -

As far as a clean preamp that has a ton of gain (can be used with ribbon mics) and has specs that approach pro-end stuff, the M-Audio DMP-3 is a great buy.

Also, if you order from American Musical Supply you can pay in 3 or 6 installments on your CC with no fees, so its easier on the pocketbook.

If you have this preamp, one good dynamic mic (the GLS Audio 58-ripoffs sound great, a decent large diaphragm condensor mic (you can get these for $100), and one good pencil condensor (you can even get a behringer pair for $70), you'll be able to get very good sound.

WATCH YOUR LEVEL METERS!

You want to the main body of your .wav file to be THICK without having transients peaking. That's why people compress vocals and drums to tape--they're very dynamic, transient-prone instruments.

Guitars (especially distorted) are already compressed.

You DON'T want to have to boost your recorded signal much at all. The more you do, the more noise. You want the original signal to be captured as fat as possible.

EQ should be used to fine-tune only. A good trick is to solo the guitar track your working on and sweep the full range of the different EQ sliders individually. You'll hear what each frequency adds to the sound. Find a setting you like and save it as a preset.

I can't emphasize enough how big of a difference mic positioning makes. Moving the mic is like changing the EQ and phase. You can get a lot of cool sounds by simply using 2 mics in 2 different spots on the same amp.

Another neat thing to do is reamp your final mix and record the sound in a room for natural reverb. You can do this with individual tracks, too. Setup a single Large Diaphragm condensor, pump your mix, and record it. Mix the resulting track into your mix to taste. Depending on the structure of the room, you get all sorts of neat results.

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: brodus24]
    #6915417 -

Man, more good info.  Thank you :thumbup:

So what do you mainly record?

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: Spooge]
    #6917960 -

I'm a fulltime musician in Chicago, and I also run a studio.

Here are a couple groups I've recorded:

www.bifunkal.com

www.whatitis.us

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Re: Tips on mastering tracks in Cool Edit 2.1? [Re: brodus24]
    #6917990 -

I've recorded evreything from 10-piece soul bands to solo acoustic, but I only consider myself a good driver with a learners' permit.

I actually just got a gig to record the score to a musical under a grant from the city, so it will be a lot of new work for me.

Best piece of advice--Trust your ears! While there a lots of "right" ways to do things, tons and tons of great songs have been recorded doing the "wrong" things...its all relative...I guess the difference that experience grants is knowing what you are doing to make the sound you get and being able to repeat it.

Another thing--no one judges an artist's sketch pad--so don't be hard on yourself when trying out new ideas and don't listen to closely to criticism.

....and watch your meters!!

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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