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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: Redstorm]
    #6731789 -

Actually I see both sides, that's what a year of middle eastern studies and living with foreigners will do to you. Our side is "we want their oil, and we know the people are gullible enough to buy whatever bullshit we spew to them even if we have no credible evidence," and the Iranian side is "we haven't been a sovereign nation for over a hundred years because of Britain, and America... we want you out. Now. Do not cross our borders. You are not welcome here."

They crossed the line. They got captured. Now Britain, and the US are using all of their media powers to try to twist the story. Just like the original gulf war, just like venezuela.

Stop trying to think of us as the good guy. We are the current superpower, but that is momentary. We want it to stretch out into a new American century. And neocons are willing to lie, cheat, manipulate, and steal to get it.


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You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
Hunter S. Thompson

Edited by wiggles (03/31/07 03:23 PM)

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: wiggles]
    #6731797 -

wiggles said:
Your post shows you have very little knowledge about the Middle East. We have never not been involved in Iran, and they want us out. In fact that's the largest problem they have against us. Our meddling in their affairs is why they hate us.

Post WWI Britain and France partitioned Iran, Iraq, Kuwait.. based on oil. This caused huge amounts of loss for their countries. Well, whenever they attempted to nationalize their oil (like Iran's Mossadegh back in the 1950's, or Egypt's Nazzer), isn't it funny that MI:6 and the CIA began staging coups. Mossadegh nationalized Iran's oil, and was soon after removed by a coup which we used to place the Shah back on the peacock throne. The same happened in Venezuela, but when they found out that the US was behind it the people of Caracas stormed the capitol to replace Chavez.

Don't you think its funny that all of our "enemies," the Baath party in Iraq, Khomeini in Iran, Chavez in Venezuela, sit on massive quantities of oil that has been nationalized, detrimenting the bank accounts of what are Primarily British and American investors? Tell me you're not so stupid so as to believe that they are acting aggressively towards us without warrant. We've raped, murdered, and pillaged in these countries. They do not like our presence, but we insist on it being there.

If you think that any of this isn't just a plan by the Brits and the Americans, then you really need to learn a bit more before you make judgments. Uninformed judgments are what the current regimes thrive on. Thats why I'm saying you're thinking what they want you to think.

If you don't believe any of this, look up the IPC. Read "The Devil's Game" or "the Freedom," or "Beyond Chutzpah" or any other of a number of books.

We want a war. Hell, there might not even be hostages... media war is what we're good at making. Look at "The Revolution will not be Televised" to see how we used media manipulation to basically fabricate a story against Chavez to show he should be removed from power.

I'm sorry, but we need to leave them alone. Thats all they want. They have the oil, and we need to accept that. If we don't, soon we're going to start a fight we can't win.



I honestly think you have a hard time reading shit you don't want to hear for the sake of argument. I thought I made it clear that I DO see why they are acting aggressive, I made it obvious that I wasn't portraying either side to be more or less at fault than another. I take it that you think the US is more at fault, which is why you seem to have such a stern opposition to my post.

No, I definitely do not think that the Brits sent their troops there just to cause tension to give us a reason for another war. For one thing, the US and UK are already stretched out as far as resources go. Even though Bush can veto the troop withdrawal, Congress controls the money and they WON'T fund a war on Iran. It's a bit different with Blair, as he has even less power than Bush does and if his cabinet want him out they WILL get him out.

Who is good at making a media war? Not Bush. If you turn the news to any station in the US you'll see that our government has very shitty relations with the media these days, the media and the government AREN'T working together in this one. that might have been the case in the past, but today the media will not hesitate to make the government look bad. Hell, Dan Rather even falsified documents to make the president look bad, and CBS had a "hard time letting him go". Like I said, it's cool and popular to hate on our government these days.

All in all I don't agree with you when you say they just want to be left alone. You said it yourself, they have reason to hate us. They are going to use every opportunity they get.

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: Innominate]
    #6731828 -

Captured brit #1 admits that they were pawns of us and British Policy

There's also videos of Nathan Somers confessing that they were on Iranian waters.

Obviously this isn't the most credible information, but I believe it about as much as any other media.


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You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
Hunter S. Thompson

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: wiggles]
    #6731852 -

Well, it sure is interesting. All I can say is we agree to disagree. Only time will tell what comes out of all of this. Personally I wish it were all over, but it isn't so simple.

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: Innominate]
    #6731868 -

Thats the sad part... most people think its something just happening now.. they don't realize that its the culmination of over a hundred years of colonialism, spread by ignorance and orientalism :frown:

I wish more than anything that my friends in Iraq, and Afghanistan would come home. I have a cousin who has 3 purple hearts but they still won't let him leave because he's a combat medic. Everytime he's supposed to get home his tour gets extended about 2 days before he's supposed to go home.


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You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
Hunter S. Thompson

Edited by wiggles (03/31/07 03:48 PM)

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #6734153 -

British Hostages Seek Asylum in Iran

by Scott Ott
(2007-04-01) — In a fresh, un-coerced video communiqué released today by the Iranian government, 15 British sailors and marines held captive for eight days said they would seek asylum in Iran, “the only country that really seems to want us.”

The hostages said they have already begun the paperwork to become Iranian citizens, and have started classes to prepare them for conversion to Islam.

“Whatever else you might think about President Ahmadinejad,” said one British sailor under no duress, “at least he took risks to get us, and genuinely desires to keep us in his country; which is more than we can say for Prime Minister [Tony] Blair.”

The British prime minister, upon hearing of the defections, said, “We did all we could, within the bounds of diplomatic propriety, to request the release of our troops. We really were fond of them. I do hope that they’ll come back and visit us sometime.”



http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2555


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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: Phred]
    #6734185 -

Woah thats a joke right?


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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: AJ4U]
    #6734441 -

Look at the URL, dewd.


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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: Innominate]
    #6735054 -

We're all brothers & sisters, maybe some day everyone will realize that and this petty bullshit, violence & hate will end.


I won't hold my breath, but still, one can hope......


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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: Penguarky Tunguin]
    #6735084 -

Penguarky Tunguin said:
OracleOfDelphi said:
Innominate said:
I'm also not saying we should just nuke the middle east but if they are capturing the soldiers of our allies I believe that is an act of war and something should be done about it instead of sitting here with our thumbs up our asses.


(please dont take this as a personal attack but)

sending 3 fully armed carrier groups to sit in the Gulf off Iran is an act of war.

OoD



Thank you.




No one and I repeat, no one knows what the fuck exactly happened to have these people taken and held hostage. What if the British patrol boat did enter Iranian waters? What then? Can you blame them for doing what they did? And so to immediately jump to the conclusion that it's Iran's fault and that you're disgusted, is well...disgusting. You are thinking exactly the way the Bush administration wants you to think.

Bush has been beating the Iranian war drums for over a year now and are you telling me that you are so quick to want to go to war with them over some BRITISH sailors being "captured"?

Please think a little bit more clearly.


are you so quick to instnatly think it's some Bush conspiracy?

Please think a little bit more clearly.


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: Syle]
    #6735118 -

My take on this...

I'm almost positive that the boat was in Iraqi waters. I'm sorry, but the British Navy is not stupid. They know where they are, and especially at a time like this, they arent going to go galavanting off into Iranian waters.

So WTF is Iran thinking? This is a good question. I dont think anyone really knows. Maybe the local commander on the scene made a stupid decision to pick these guys up, and now the gov't is between a rock and a hard place. Giving them back now would see like backing down, but keeping them is likely to lead to further incidents.

I think in a week or so they'll be found innocent of wrong-doing and released. Nobody is going to war over this, I guarantee that.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: nikita]
    #6735415 -

persias gone. get over it.
(and the iranian word for persia is iran also, magarnah? :wink:)

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: herfenara]
    #6736271 -

first of all this same thing happened only a few years ago. 2003 or 2004 i believe. all the hostages wrote apology letters and were released (i read this in the paper yesterday). secondly, the GPS positions reported by both governments put everyone in Iraqi waters by ~1.87 nautical miles, but oh wait, the Iranians changed where the said they were a couple of days after that. anyone else think this sounds suspicious? also i read that they were supposed to release the woman on the 29th or 30th. have they done that yet? the head hancho of Iran made that statement himself. now im not pro-bush nor am i for the war in Iraq, but i say Iran needs to be taught a fuckin lesson. My own personal opinion for a solution is Britain needs to line up troops at the border and give Iran a 24 hr altimatum(sp.) and say give us our boys back or we will come and get them.


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Eddie Money doesn't have to put up with this shit.
The wonder has a name: shrooms.

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: farva86]
    #6736323 -

farva86 said:
first of all this same thing happened only a few years ago. 2003 or 2004 i believe. all the hostages wrote apology letters and were released (i read this in the paper yesterday). secondly, the GPS positions reported by both governments put everyone in Iraqi waters by ~1.87 nautical miles, but oh wait, the Iranians changed where the said they were a couple of days after that. anyone else think this sounds suspicious? also i read that they were supposed to release the woman on the 29th or 30th. have they done that yet? the head hancho of Iran made that statement himself. now im not pro-bush nor am i for the war in Iraq, but i say Iran needs to be taught a fuckin lesson. My own personal opinion for a solution is Britain needs to line up troops at the border and give Iran a 24 hr altimatum(sp.) and say give us our boys back or we will come and get them.


I second that and if they start even more shit I say that the brits show them what a nuke can do so their nuclear ambitions are put at bay...


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-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #6736393 -

QuantumMeltdown said:
I second that and if they start even more shit I say that the brits show them what a nuke can do so their nuclear ambitions are put at bay...


i disagree with nukes. once one gets dropped u can kiss the world as we know it good bye and welcome a nuclear winter with open arms. however, i do agree with some really big fuckin bombs, which can easily be launched from outside the country and fuck the towel heads in their asses. i am a red blooded american and a patriot and if it was americans that they had captured u can bet ur ass ill be at the recruiters office that day.


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Eddie Money doesn't have to put up with this shit.
The wonder has a name: shrooms.

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: farva86]
    #6736465 -

farva86 said:
QuantumMeltdown said:
I second that and if they start even more shit I say that the brits show them what a nuke can do so their nuclear ambitions are put at bay...


i disagree with nukes. once one gets dropped u can kiss the world as we know it good bye and welcome a nuclear winter with open arms. however, i do agree with some really big fuckin bombs, which can easily be launched from outside the country and fuck the towel heads in their asses. i am a red blooded american and a patriot and if it was americans that they had captured u can bet ur ass ill be at the recruiters office that day.


How do you figure that? We already dropped two on Japan. Granted there were less nuclear countries back then if any other then us.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #6736633 -

Quote:
Granted there were less nuclear countries back then if any other then us.


thats exactly the point. the r so many nukes around today that its not even funny and as soon as 1 get dropped there will be some form of nuclear retaliation and so on and so forth and in short order we have fallout. i find the mere existence of nuclear weapons frightening.


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Eddie Money doesn't have to put up with this shit.
The wonder has a name: shrooms.

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: farva86]
    #6736645 -

but if there were so many nukes around that its not even funny then why are serious countries with money and serious organizations with the money to obtain them not able too and proven able to do so despite their increasing attempts. Countries like N. Korea and Iran, and Iraq for instance.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett

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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: farva86]
    #6738188 -

Quote:
i find the mere existence of nuclear weapons frightening.



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Re: Iranian Hostages [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #6744365 -

QuantumMeltdown said:
but if there were so many nukes around that its not even funny then why are serious countries with money and serious organizations with the money to obtain them not able too and proven able to do so despite their increasing attempts. Countries like N. Korea and Iran, and Iraq for instance.


lets do some hypothetical thinking for a moment. suppose rusiia sells a nuke to iran, iraq, korea or whoever caughs up the dough. if it gets used attacking, say for example the U.S.A., radioactive material can be tested to find out exactly where the uranium came from. they will know who enriched the uranium, where it was enriched, and when it was enriched and whoever sold the nuke would be held partially responsible, and the retailation that would ensue is enough to keep everyone from selling any nuclear material, hence the reason iran is doing its own uranium enrichment program.


--------------------
Eddie Money doesn't have to put up with this shit.
The wonder has a name: shrooms.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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