LunarEclipse said:

Neither it is the desire to reproduce and protect our children until they can do the same that is really our driving force. Or is if we let it. Sure love and the fear of death is there and can help motivate but when you talk about your "primary objective" as a person/member of a species it is to make more of same.

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JacquesCousteau said:

One might say that love and fear are the two driving forces, exclusively. It is as if love is one wing, and fear the other. One might suppose that freedom is attained through perfect balance of the two.

P.S. Sup buuuuddy?  

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ah metaphors are great indeed!

I dunno about freedom through balance, but I can definately see a better way of living. 

access a way of thinking not to the self, and you access the way of thinking about others.  without others the I is nothing. 

been well, travel does a lot to a person 

JacquesCousteau said:

One might say that love and fear are the two driving forces, exclusively. It is as if love is one wing, and fear the other. One might suppose that freedom is attained through perfect balance of the two.

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I disagree.

Fear is naturally going to prevent someone from experiencing love. Love typically involves acceptance and a sense of connection, while fear implies seperation and inability to come to terms with aspects of reality.

Fear might bring an individual to take action that will prevent them from situations in which they might die, but it offers nothing to the experience of life. Love typically involves fully embracing life and its experiences.

Fear offers us nothing but the perfect opportunity to become more aware of ourselves and to identify aspects of our nature that we can cultivate to further awareness, understanding, and experience of life.

Ultimately, fear is irrational, whereas love is rational and reasonable.


Peace.

fireworks_god said:

JacquesCousteau said:

One might say that love and fear are the two driving forces, exclusively. It is as if love is one wing, and fear the other. One might suppose that freedom is attained through perfect balance of the two.

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I disagree.

Fear is naturally going to prevent someone from experiencing love. Love typically involves acceptance and a sense of connection, while fear implies seperation and inability to come to terms with aspects of reality.

Fear might bring an individual to take action that will prevent them from situations in which they might die, but it offers nothing to the experience of life. Love typically involves fully embracing life and its experiences.

Fear offers us nothing but the perfect opportunity to become more aware of ourselves and to identify aspects of our nature that we can cultivate to further awareness, understanding, and experience of life.

Ultimately, fear is irrational, whereas love is rational and reasonable.


Peace.

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kaiowas said:

those a lot of assumptions and sweeping generalizations you have put forth fireworks.

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I do my best.

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1) fear offers nothing to the experience of life?

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You forgot the italics, which conveyed the meaning, which, I admit, was more implied rather than directly expressed. Fear offers nothing of value to the experience of life, other than the opportunity to become aware of aspects of one's mental programming that are responsible for obstructing one's experience in such a manner.

Now, do people prefer to feel afraid?

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2) fear prevents you from experiencing love?

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Indeed. The more one is afraid, the less one loves. The more energy and awareness that is invested in the process of feeling afraid thus implies that there is less energy and awareness to be involved in fufillment and love. The last that I was aware, we do not have infinite conscious mental capabilities.

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3) fear is irrational?

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Clearly, it is. In order to illustrate with an example, propose that a certain individual is afraid of crashing their car into another when they are on the road. Perhaps they have a phobia when they get behind the wheel.

Now, is it necessary for an individual to experience being afraid in order to drive a vehicle? Obviously not. Is being afraid productive? Is it necessary to be afraid in order for one to be capable of being aware of one's circumstance, to be able to identify potential threats to one's well-being, and to be capable of acting, when necessary, to avoid potential threats?

I don't think so. Not only that, but the more time, energy, and awareness that is invested in being afraid, the less there is available for being an intelligent, conscious being who directly perceives reality and is able to successfully navigate and exist as reality.

Is it necessary? No. Is it productive? No. Is it pleasant? Nei. So, then, why desecrate one's present experience of life?

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1)think about your day to day activities and see how mcuh fear is a part of them jsut as love is.

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Less and less every day.

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2) how can you have a basis for love is fear is not invovled in the equation?

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Explain to me why it is required to have a "basis" for love in fear in the first place. Love and fear are not a duality. Love is a natural state of being to a realized entity. I'm afraid () you will have to elaborate.

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3) if someone comes up to you with a knife and you are scared, how is that irrational?

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What aspect of reality demonstrates that it would be rational to do so? Simply because some people would react to the situation in such a way?

As far as this specific example is concerned, it would be rational to not allow one's mind to be in the way of one's direct perception of the experience, so that one can promptly act in a manner that will prevent one from the threat of being stabbed in the stomach.

Perhaps I just absorbed too much intellectual understanding of Zen (I've never formally studied or practiced it), as well as my own personal application of that understanding, but it seems that one who would be afraid in such a situation would be distracted, and it is precisely one of those situations in which one would not want to be distracted. To me, all focus should be on experiencing the situation in real-time, with the maximum amount of awareness invested in one's sensory data, and the singular decision to act exactly when it is necessary to do so.

I do not comprehend why fear should be in the equation, specifically due to the fact that it will naturally lessen one's ability to avoid situations that one is afraid of, and also because there are more aware frames of mind in which we can analyze and interpret our life situation in order to lead our life. Given that it contributes nothing of value to my experience of life itself, and considering its absence of practical value, it is something that I choose to do without.

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when you make a post on the shroomery, is it because you want to further knowledge, or is it due to wanting to be 'seen' on here?

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Until you can demonstrate to each and every one of us exactly what basis such a question has in regards to the discussion at hand, I will choose to disregard it. 


Peace.

Quote:

You forgot the italics, which conveyed the meaning, which, I admit, was more implied rather than directly expressed. Fear offers nothing of value to the experience of life, other than the opportunity to become aware of aspects of one's mental programming that are responsible for obstructing one's experience in such a manner.

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Quote:

Now, do people prefer to feel afraid

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Quote:

Indeed. The more one is afraid, the less one loves. The more energy and awareness that is invested in the process of feeling afraid thus implies that there is less energy and awareness to be involved in fulfillment and love. The last that I was aware, we do not have infinite conscious mental capabilities

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Quote:

Explain to me why it is required to have a "basis" for love in fear in the first place. Love and fear are not a duality. Love is a natural state of being to a realized entity. I'm afraid you will have to elaborate.

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Quote:

Clearly, it is. In order to illustrate with an example, propose that a certain individual is afraid of crashing their car into another when they are on the road. Perhaps they have a phobia when they get behind the wheel.

Now, is it necessary for an individual to experience being afraid in order to drive a vehicle? Obviously not. Is being afraid productive? Is it necessary to be afraid in order for one to be capable of being aware of one's circumstance, to be able to identify potential threats to one's well-being, and to be capable of acting, when necessary, to avoid potential threats?

I don't think so. Not only that, but the more time, energy, and awareness that is invested in being afraid, the less there is available for being an intelligent, conscious being who directly perceives reality and is able to successfully navigate and exist as reality.

Is it necessary? No. Is it productive? No. Is it pleasant? Nei. So, then, why desecrate one's present experience of life?

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Quote:

I do not comprehend why fear should be in the equation, specifically due to the fact that it will naturally lessen one's ability to avoid situations that one is afraid of, and also because there are more aware frames of mind in which we can analyze and interpret our life situation in order to lead our life. Given that it contributes nothing of value to my experience of life itself, and considering its absence of practical value, it is something that I choose to do without.

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Given that it contributes nothing of value to my experience of life itself, and considering its absence of practical value, it is something that I choose to do without.

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Until you can demonstrate to each and every one of us exactly what basis such a question has in regards to the discussion at hand, I will choose to disregard it.

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it's obvious isn't it? link fear to wanting to be seen on here, and link love to wanting to further knowledge. the fear of not being heard makes you speak.  the love of learning and furthering knowledge allows  communication to build. 

its both.  come on...admit it!!

kaiowas said:

And that opportunity to become more aware of ones own mental programming is an on going process that happens daily.

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do you honestly think you will achieve a position of never having fear?

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Perhaps. To be honest, it is not something that I concern myself with. I do not seek to live without fear, but yet, at the same time, I do seek to develop myself so that I am more directly perceiving reality. Living without fear seems to be a fringe benefit of doing so.

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you have those negative emotions to help you further yourself

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...they are just as important and have just as much value as love or else you would be a stagnant observer.

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I do not understand your reasoning that is suspossed to support this statement. Being aware enough to not require inflicting fear upon oneself equates into being a stagnant observer? No comprende.

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thats a very short sighted way of looking at it.  At that particular moment in time, that feeling of fear prevents a person putting energy into love.

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  But later on down the line, that fear can become a catalyst for experiencing love.

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  It's not enough to be just conscious...but having understanding and empathy with consciousness, can bring about more love into your life.

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just as in a psychedelic trip...there's the good and the bad involved.  you can have a bad trip, and at that moment you have no invested energy into love. If one learns from the trip, then that energy could be turned around as something positive.

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Clearly, and this is the exception that I allowed in my first post - the notion that the experience of anything, even if it is not a pleasant experience in the moment, can be integrated into one's processes in a way that creates understanding and realization that will bring one to experience life in a more loving and fufilling manner.

Does one need to stick one's hand into a fire in order to be able to understand what one's hand is, what fire is, and the concept of what would result from sticking one's hand in the fire, as well as the notion that it would not be preferable to do so?

Nope.

Then why do it?

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you can't just ignore fear because at the time you feel it's not productive and it doesn't feel good.

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I do not ignore fear; I do not dismiss its existance, and I do not conclude that no value can be derived from experiencing it. The vast majority of the time, even in situations that pose an immediate threat to my well-being (like today, fucking morons love to pull out in front of people ), I tend to not experience fear. I am simply immersed in the experience and I act without obstruction, and I always seem to do fine. You can't ignore what isn't there.

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it's not about preference.  Furthermore, love can be just as obstructing as fear, can it not?

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but that's one situation fireworks.  a rabid dog chases you...and you are afraid...and in that fear adrenaline kicks in, and you run to safety.  from there, irrationality and rationality goes out the window.  you can't just sit there and try to reason the situation out.

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fear can offer moments of clairity.

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Incorrect. A mind that is clouded with fear could not, at the same time, be clear.

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there are times when fear is rational and irrational.  why be so one sided?

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...but there are still just as many times when fear is also productive.  again, maybe not in the short term, but long term...definitely.

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Productive? Quite possibly. More productive than better alternatives of operation? Ha.

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I have avoided many situations in my life due to fear.  I was very shy.  at that moment it was hurtful to me, but I have gained a lot out of this and have slowly been getting over being shy.  I can look back at mistakes made, and see that as a reference of what I used to be and what I don't want to be.  Regardless of the fact that i don't want to be shy and at that time it was hurting me as a person, it now comes at a point of benefit.

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And yet someone who was never shy, as a result of being afraid, would never require the lesson to be learned from fear. Naturally, I've already allowed the exception that fear is useful in that, if it is being experienced, it provides an opportunity to overcome it. Obviously, it is not necessary to have fear to overcome in the first place.


again I think love and fear are both primary, neither one is better or worse than the other.  choosing sides just separates. 

Living a life of fear just seperates, as well.


being able to recognize it as a key player and having just as much 'value' may allow us to start that transcending process most of us go on about.

Transcendence is not necessary if there is nothing to transcend.  


it's obvious isn't it? link fear to wanting to be seen on here, and link love to wanting to further knowledge. the fear of not being heard makes you speak.  the love of learning and furthering knowledge allows  communication to build. 

Eh, no.... that isn't exactly obvious.

Not everyone speaks because they fear not being heard.


its both.  come on...admit it!!

I have nothing to admit. I feel no need to express myself here out of a desire to be heard. Expressing myself when I feel like doing so is a service to myself, ultimately - an act that allows me to become more conscious of my thought processes, and, if nothing else, experience in expressing my thoughts. I also participate in the spirit that perhaps others will benefit, coupled with the notion that, in the interaction, I will benefit from them as well. At this point in my life, it would be damned foolish to engage in an activity that takes up a considerable portion of my time for such a nonsensical reason.


Peace.

maynardsasscrack said:

What drives someone in a vegitative state?

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The external assistance in the operation of biological processes?


Peace.