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digitalpoison
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Registered: 07/21/06
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Soma
#5901746 - 07/26/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have read many books in my time and I have found the following to be an accepted opinion amongst Western Ethnobotanists/anthropologists: Soma is an unknown entheogen written about in the Rig Veda. It constituents are lost and its preparation remains a great historical mystery.
However......last week I was listening to a lecture from Stan Grof and he claimed that a Yogi that his wife introduced him to knew the origins and preparation of Soma. He even went as far as to say that there was a sect of Yogis/Monks/whatever that still utilized Soma. It was not in fact a lost mystery.
And then two days ago I ran into an old friend at a coffee shop and he too told me that Soma is not a mystery, just a secret. My friend is a Kurd from Iran. He said that his family used to take a mixture in wine that would cause them to dance and play music for 15 hrs or so. This was a religious sacrament for them and they called it Soma.
Has anyone ever heard things like this in their travels/studies? Perhaps many cultures have used the name Soma in reference to many different mixtures/plants. My friend said that once the Shah took power in Iran, he exterminated all the tribes who used/praised Soma. It then became a closely kept secret......
Opinions welcome............
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aNeway2sayHooray
Cresley Wusher



Registered: 07/07/05
Posts: 7,653
Loc: Orphic Trench
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Do you think Soma is the Amanita Muscaria mushroom?
I think you should get in contact with you kurdish friend.Find out more from him or see if he can get more info from his family.
-------------------- Mad_Larkin said: Death is just a thang.
MrJellineck said: Profits, prophets. That's all you jews think about. sheekle said: life is drugs... and music... and cat...
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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could be rue or amanita i read part of wassons book about it huge fucking book reguardless both of em can be used to atain that state of mind for meditation. i Knew an indian guy who in india in college was given a powder that was mixed with mix and the effects sounded like amanita and when i did that with amanita it was exactly what he said so its probally amanita
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  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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aNeway2sayHooray
Cresley Wusher



Registered: 07/07/05
Posts: 7,653
Loc: Orphic Trench
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Allot of papers mention amanita.But there is no telling.As mentioned above;the word soma could be a universal word for entheogenic or something else.
More hands on personal knowledge is needed.Allot more speaking with indigenous peoples or something of the like.
Do you have any info on it being Syrian rue?Does Syrian rue grow in southwest Asia?
Could you please start using better punctuation in your posts?Sometimes you have allot of good things to say,and it doesn't come across well because of the horrible grammar.
-------------------- Mad_Larkin said: Death is just a thang.
MrJellineck said: Profits, prophets. That's all you jews think about. sheekle said: life is drugs... and music... and cat...
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1,834
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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you guys should take a look at the banner in my siggy...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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888
Stranger


Registered: 11/22/05
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888
Stranger


Registered: 11/22/05
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Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Soma [Re: 888]
#5905474 - 07/27/06 02:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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the dork in the video told them to be careful handling the "dried specimen" or they might accidentally ingest active agents....
ahhhh this guy spends way too much time indoors
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: Soma [Re: 888]
#5906497 - 07/27/06 07:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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READ THIS BOOK PRETTY MUCH I CANT REALLY READ WHAT IM TYPEING CAUSE IM PARTLY BLIND DUE TO DATURA. http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/soma.html wASSIN DID ALOT OF RESEARCH ITS IN MY COUNTY LIBERY GO TO A LIBERY AND PICK IT UP IT WAS A BIG RED AMANITA ON IT HAND DRAWN INSTEAD OF REAL LIF PICTURE. GOOD BOOK but like said the doctor i talked to that went to college in india had aminta. Everything he described in facts hes a pharacist whick makes it funny. mordon poeplee on drugs ussaly are atracted to somthing in there families past
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  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--


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I've heard that soma was Sarcostemia brevifolia.
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mr_minds_eye
Disposable Wage Whore

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Re: Soma [Re: eve69]
#5909095 - 07/28/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think that it is the legendary 5-MEOW. Lots of different sources back me up too. You just have to read between the lines.
-------------------- Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities. -Stephen Hawking
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digitalpoison
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Registered: 07/21/06
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Re: Soma [Re: eve69]
#5909105 - 07/28/06 02:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Has anyone ever wondered if Soma was just Datura? Shiva and Kali monogliphs dance around and carry datura....hmmmmm
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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well amanita, dxm and syrain rue, ayahuasca make me fell or poeple see me as shiva and then i can do shivas dance and feel like shiva is moving my body to make me dance
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  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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passitbobbie
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Registered: 01/13/05
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Quote:
thedudenj said: READ THIS BOOK PRETTY MUCH I CANT REALLY READ WHAT IM TYPEING CAUSE IM PARTLY BLIND DUE TO DATURA.
ROFLCOPTER I hope this is a temporary situation? What does being blind feel like? Are you scared?
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1,834
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Post deleted by Vertigo6911Reason for deletion: oops
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
Edited by Vertigo6911 (07/30/06 02:15 PM)
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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o yeah it was temp im learning datura from a datura shaman i found a stock pile of natural datura inoxia and stronium and hybrid ones and colected some samples
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  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



Registered: 12/04/04
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Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Datura shaman? what does that mean exactly?
the only current cultural use of datura i am aware of is by the voodoo priests of Haiiti, and you dont even wanna know what they use it for...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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GnosticMedia
Jan Irvin
Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 117
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Vertigo6911 said: Datura shaman? what does that mean exactly?
the only current cultural use of datura i am aware of is by the voodoo priests of Haiiti, and you dont even wanna know what they use it for...
Acutally, and to my knowledge, there are still Datura using cultures in California and India (off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are others). However, the Haitian use of Datura in Zombification rituals as laid out by Dr. Wade Davis in Passage of Darkness and Serpent and the Rainbow is correct.
And as Vertigo pointed out above, we mention in our book Astrotheology & Shamanism (we also cover this in less detail in our free video lecture on our website www.gnosticmedia.com) on the topic of Soma: ~Spaces in text are the result of omitted footnotes~
"Gordon Wasson and his wife Valentina founded the field of Ethnomycology primarily when doing the research for Russia Mushrooms and History (1957). Wasson attributed the first in a series on Ethnomycology (Entheo-Mycological Studies No.1) into his most famous work Soma, The Divine Mushroom of Immortality. In this book, he lays out the foundation of the Rig Vedas in which he discovered that the basis of Soma in the Rig Vedas (at least in part) is in fact this bright red and white, Amanita muscaria, psychedelic mushroom.
We (among others) contend that Soma in the Rig Vedas was often an admixture of Psilocybe mushrooms and other psychoactive ingredients as well. We should point out that the argument regarding Soma is no longer concerning if Soma was an entheogen, but rather which entheogen Soma was. Wasson himself admitted to never having a successful experience with A. muscaria, but upon further investigation, we realized from his 1965 and 1966 publications that he ate the mushrooms raw, drank the juice, and had the juice with milk. Wasson’s own research states the A. muscaria is always consumed dried: “There is no aspect of the fly-agaric on which there is more testimony than this…” He later stated that consuming them raw was in error. , Was his friend Imazeki the only one who properly prepared the mushroom by roasting? It also appears that Wasson never recycled his urine while conducting personal experiments with the Amanita even though he criticized anthropologists for not doing the same. This is customary of cultures that use the Amanitas and will be discussed at the end of this chapter. Wasson concluded at the time, that Caucasians may not be able to experience the mushroom’s effects. , Reviewing all of the ideas laid out by Wasson , McKenna , Flattery & Schwartz , Spess , and Bennett brings us to the conclusion that all are partially right, and wrong. None have provided substantial evidence enough to refute the others, bringing us to the conclusion that “Soma” is probably a generic term describing preparations in singular or combination of Amanita, Psilocybe, syrian rue, nymphaea, nelumbo, cannabis, opium, ephedra, and/or other psychoactive ingredients. ,
Soma was probably nothing more than a generic term (taxon) that was used in the same way as the words "drug," "entheogen," "psychedelic," or "psychoactive substance" are used today. ~ Rätsch, Müller-Ebeling, Shahi
Soma was one of the most important anthropomorphized deities in the Hindu pantheon. On the surface, Soma can be confusing because it represents so many things. Soma is a plant, Soma is the word or logos (‘vac’), Soma is a drink, Soma is a drink made from a plant , and the psychoactive urine of the priest who had ingested the plant. Consequently, Soma has characteristics of plants and of gods as well. Soma, in the stories, married the daughter of the sun and is often referred to as the sun itself. The anthropomorphism of Soma embodies the sun, the plant, the god and the elixir made from the plant. The red and white-spotted A. muscaria mushroom can be seen as a red, sun-like ball with the white clouds crossing in front of it (representing the sun and the plant together), and this sacred mushroom has been associated with a number of deities, as one shall soon see."
... Christian Rätsch, Ph.D., is a world-renowned anthropologist and ethnopharmacologist who specializes in the shamanic uses of plants. He is the author of The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants: Ethnopharmacology and Its Applications, Marijuana Medicine and co-author of the second edition of Plants of the Gods with Dr. Albert Hofmann (the discoverer of LSD) and Dr. Richard Evans Schultes of Harvard's Botanical Museum. He co-authored Witchcraft Medicine with Claudia Müller-Ebeling and Wolf-Dieter Storl, fantastic for looking at the female use of Wicca (witchcraft), its shamanic and healing plants and practices throughout Europe and, most importantly, its suppression. He also co-authored Shamanism and Tantra in the Himalayas with Müller-Ebeling, Ph.D., and Surendra Bahadur Shahi. Shamanism and Tantra in the Himalayas is a beautiful and fantastic book for delving into the shamanic cultures existing in Nepal today and for understanding how more than one plant has always been used in Hindu mythology.
There is said [to] be a total of 108 psychoactive plants that are consecrated to Shiva and are sacred, and that transport the shamans into a trance. ~ Müller-Ebeling, Rätsch, Shahi
Chris Bennett has co-authored two books, one of which was Green Gold: The Tree of Life, co-authored with Lynn and Judy Osburn. His latest book is Sex, Drugs, Violence and the Bible, co-authored with Neil McQueen. Bennett has approached the entheogens in the Bible issue from a new perspective, one with cannabis as the main sacrament. He has shown successfully that the mistranslated biblical “calamus” from the Hebrew qaneh-bosem, is actually marijuana or cannabis (q’aneh), an ingredient in the anointing oils. His interpretations sometimes lean slightly more toward literal than we agree with, and he barely touches on astrotheology. However, his books are well researched and make for fantastic, in-depth reading and are highly recommended.
David Spess is a microbiologist and former research mycologist for the FDA. He taught at the University of Colorado and studied Sanskrit at the Naropa Institute. He has written an interesting book called Soma: The Divine Hallucinogen, in which he argues that Soma is a combination of plants, particularly Nymphaea and Nelumbo. Spess does not argue sufficiently against other candidates for Soma. However, for acquiring a deep understanding of the origins of the Middle Eastern and Mediterranean religions, alchemy and philosophy through Soma use in the Rig Vedas, this book is outstanding. His work is probably one of the most important for showing the origins of Judaism, Christianity, Gnosticism, etc., as a slow development from Indo-Aryan/Iranian cultures.
Peter Lamborn Wilson is a well-known “underground intellect.” He has written many books, but his largest contribution to this field comes from his book, Ploughing the Clouds: the Search for the Irish Soma. In this book, for the first time in entheogenic research, Wilson brings sufficient evidence to the table to show the use of mushrooms and other entheogens in Celtic cultures, especially in Irish folklore and tradition. Wilson also contends that Irish Soma use came through the traditions of the Rig Vedas by migratory movements of Indo-Aryan peoples to Ireland. Wilson brings new, startling theories to the table, such as his hypothesis that the spread of empire started over the chase of Soma by agricultural peoples who had lost the Soma traditions to the more natural woodland tribes. Wilson also argues sufficiently to suggest that Soma was generally acquired by purchase or theft in many cultures, and was considered taboo to harvest by the group who intended to use it. This idea, which he supplies ample evidence for, if correct, would make other arguments against mushrooms as Soma and Manna in desert regions, obsolete. , ...
WHAT IS THIS? The Bible tells us that manna fell from heaven and was eaten by the Israelites during their exodus from Egypt. The authors of this book consider manna to be either a generic term for entheogens, or the psychoactive mushrooms themselves. Recently Daniel Merkur, Ph.D., a former teacher from Syracuse University and Auburn Theological Seminary, proposed that another psychedelic fungus was the manna of the Bible–ergot (Claviceps paspali & Claviceps purpurea). Ergot contains a psychoactive substance similar to LSD called LSA, and is one of the primary sources for making LSD. Ergot was used in the Bible as a grain, and it was also mentioned as something used in a winepress, which was then taken under the oak tree (Judges 6:11-12, 19-24) as, very likely, a substitute for the Amanitas. Also wheat, barley, and darnel/cockle (tares – Lolium temulentum) are host plants for ergot.
We believe “manna” was likely used as a generic term for “entheogens,” just as “Soma” appears to be. Though generally accepted that ergot was not identified as fungal until 1764, we must also consider the possibility that manna means, “mushrooms.” With this in mind, it makes more sense to identify ergot with manna, as well as Amanita, Psilocybe, and possibly, but less likely, any type of mushroom, psychoactive or not. Manna’s association to the rains and heavens makes us consider this option, though Soma, too, is often associated with the rains, thunder, and heavens.
We agree with many of Merkur’s references to “showbread, unleavened bread, and Presence bread” as being from ergot. Merkur’s evidence also suggests that ergot was more likely a later substitute for “the manna of the wilderness years”:
What among the ritual objects of Solomon’s temple was described in biblical narrative as Manna? The answer is not far to seek. According to Josh. 5:11-12, unleavened bread was substituted in Canaan for the manna of the wilderness years.... Immediately after the Israelites crossed the Jordan River and ate the produce of Canaan, Yahveh ceased to provide them with manna. Unleavened bread replaced manna in their diet. [bold, italics, underline—ours] ~ Dan Merkur
Strong’s clearly relates the Hebrew word for wilderness, “midbar,” as being related to cattle pastures, and therefore most likely related to Psilocybe mushrooms:
4057 midbar mid-bawr' from 1696 in the sense of driving; a pasture (i.e. open field, whither cattle are driven); by implication, a desert; also speech (including its organs):--desert, south, speech, wilderness. [bold—ours] ~ Strong’s Concordance
Many of Merkur’s references to ergot are, in our opinion, Amanita and/or Psilocybe references, and not only that of ergot. On page 43, he quotes Philo:
Why then need you still wonder that God showers virtue without toil or trouble, needing no controlling hand but perfect and complete from the very first? And if you would have further testimony of this can you find any more trustworthy than Moses, who says that while other men receive their food from earth, the nation of vision alone has it from heaven? The earthly food is produced with the co-operation of husbandmen, but the heavenly is sent like the snow by God the solely self-acting, with none to share his work. And indeed it says “Behold I rain upon you bread from heaven” (Exod. Xvi. 4). Of what food can he rightly say that it is rained from heaven, save of heavenly wisdom which is sent from above on souls which yearn for virtue? [bold, italics, underlines—ours] ~ Philo
Clearly baking unleavened bread is not something done without the co-operation of the husbandmen “solely self-acting, with none to share his work.” The mushrooms appear with the storms and rains, look like unleavened bread, and were often called “The Sons of Thunder” or “Boanerges.” Amanita muscaria also smell much like baking bread when slightly roasted or dried by a fire. Many of Merkur’s descriptions of manna seem better suited as descriptions of entheogenic mushrooms.
Jeremiah 2:20-21 For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot. Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?
Why would the “manna of the wilderness years” be substituted? By substituting the mushrooms with ergot crackers, the priests were further able to suppress the true identity of manna—most likely, Psilocybe cubensis and/or A. muscaria.
...
~Spaces in text are the result of omitted footnotes~
Edited by TheHemperor (07/30/06 12:39 PM)
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GnosticMedia
Jan Irvin
Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 117
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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These pages of our book Astrotheology and Shamanism are also available for you to read on Google Books. You can search through the book to find what ever you want, but Google does block out some pages.
Pg. 60 - http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN15...M5B4HWgmB5tjiA0
Pg. 61 - http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN15...x6r2alN0gZdsQqs
Pg. 62 - http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN15...HtnBqWGOegcoT34
Make sure to also read the footnotes on the bottom of page 100: http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN15...BgQDdbgUYByNZ5k
It reads:
Chris Bennett and those in favor of a Cannabis theory as Soma base part of this on a wrongful claim by G. Wasson that A. muscaria may not affect Caucasians, or cause bliss (Sex, Drugs, Violence and the Bible, pt. 2, pg. 75, ft. 185); though Bennett has shown substantial evidence that cannabis was used as Soma as well. It is well known that cannabis is now used in the making of the sacred drink “Bhang.” However, Bennett has not presented substantial evidence to debunk those portions of the Rig Vedas listed in this book; or in Magic Mushrooms in Religion and Alchemy, by Heinrich; or in Soma: The Divine Hallucinogen, by Spess; or Shamanism and Tantra in the Himalayas, by Rätsch, et. al. See Cf. Shrestha, 1998, pg. 134. “It has been convincingly verified linguistically by Flattery and Schwartz (1989) as well as other authors (Gelpke 1967, Li 1974, Rosenthal 1971) that bhang (or bhanga, bang, bangii, beng, etc.) is not only the word for hemp leaves and the drinks and delicacies made with them, but originally meant "drug" in general.” Shamanism and Tantra in the Himalayas, by Müller-Ebeling, Rätsch, Shahi, pg. 17, footnote 21. Bennett admits this fact (SDVB, pt. 2, pg. 74, ft. 183 & pg. 75 ft. 186). We do, however, agree that the Sula Benet and Chris Bennett’s qaneh-bosm theory in Green Gold: The Tree of Life (pg 87-96) and re-presented in SBVD, is likely correct. We also concur, in part, with Bennett’s statements (SDVB, pt. 1, pg. 73, ft. 161) toward Allegro with regard to cannabis and Allegro’s prejudiced “weary dotards” statement against it. See The Sacred Mushroom, pg. 188-9, by Allegro.
-------------------- www.gnosticmedia.com
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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welll said
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  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1,834
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Acutally, and to my knowledge, there are still Datura using cultures in California and India (off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are others).
interesting... kinda fucks up my little theory of european wichcraft having all the horror show props with the skull etc associated to it due to the effects of tropane entoxication...
ahh well...
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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