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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Clarification for Phred
    #5831470 - 07/07/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Due to your abuse of your modship in closing the thread "Answer for Alex213" immediately after you had childishly misrepresented my position, I feel a clarification is needed.

Your statement:

I realize that, Alex213. That is precisely why I asked for clarification. Your charge that the forum rules are applied unevenly out of friendship and/or political orientation didn't specify a moderator by name, so it is possible you were speaking of actions performed by Baby_Hitler ...or even by Cervantes or Rono or Trendal or Evolving or Jammer or Lana.

bi0's statement shows he had assumed you were including me in your observation. Knowing the high regard in which you hold me, I wasn't so sure, which is why I asked for clarification.

I'm glad to hear his assumption was incorrect.



Your statement and assumptions are incorrect. I simply pointed out the fact that I had not said what you claimed I had said.

And Bio's opinions of your fairness, or lack thereof, are his own.


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Alex213]
    #5831547 - 07/07/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'm lost, who's peed the farthers so far?



Didn't Alex say that this should not be discussed in this forum?


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Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5831562 - 07/07/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah but phred thought he'd try and be clever by misrepresenting my position and then closing the thread before I could reply.

This is the kind of behaviour I was expecting from him and why I suggested it should be done in another forum.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Alex213]
    #5831677 - 07/07/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Okay, Alex213, since you are determined to not miss a single opportunity to accuse me of "abuse" of moderator powers -- even in this forum -- let's thrash this out. If it's okay for you to take not-so-thinly-veiled shots at me in this forum, surely it must be okay for me to respond.

You weren't content to merely welcome Redstorm. Oh no. That would never do. You instead had to also opine it sure was too bad the administration couldn't have assigned someone more Left-leaning to balance things out. When Seuss pointed out the political leanings of a moderator need not affect the actions they take as moderators, your response was to assert you had seen instances of uneven moderating which you attribute to the friendship (unnamed) moderators have with some of the posters.

So let's move from the general to the specific. I'll ask you the same question I asked bi0 --

Is it your contention that I -- Phred -- enforce the forum rules more often against posters whose political leanings differ from my own than I do against posters whose political leanings match my own? Before answering, you may want to ask yourself which moderator it was who engineered the permabans of various ex-members who used to troll you.




Phred


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Alex213]
    #5831777 - 07/07/06 01:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Due to your abuse of your modship in closing the thread "Answer for Alex213" immediately after you had childishly misrepresented my position




I sit up at night and wonder if you two hate each or if it is really love and you just like to nag each other.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Alex213]
    #5831809 - 07/07/06 01:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Edit: It looks like is is somewhat of a more appropriate venue now.


Edited by Redstorm (07/07/06 01:56 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Redstorm]
    #5831844 - 07/07/06 02:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This has been moved from PA&L to WA&F. For those just joining us, a thread welcoming Redstorm as a new mod to PA&L turned into a critique of Phred's moderating in PA&L. Rather than trash the welcome thread, a new thread was created. Rather than bend the PA&L forum rules a second time, I have moved the thread here. I see Alex213's comments as "feedback".

I do not have much patience left for this topic. I have warned anybody posting to keep the comments mature, civil, and respectful. If I ban, it will be lengthy.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Seuss]
    #5831859 - 07/07/06 02:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I was just about to lock it, and I made my post and started looking for the manage thread button, but couldn't find it.

You stole my thunder!


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Invisibleblink
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Redstorm]
    #5831878 - 07/07/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

can i get in on this action too?

/me starts pounding his chest and growl-yelling


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: blink]
    #5831937 - 07/07/06 02:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

No.


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:orly:



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Offlinekotik
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5832414 - 07/07/06 04:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"opine"

tsk. tsk. you know why.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Phred]
    #5834237 - 07/08/06 02:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

let's thrash this out.

I've got a better idea. YOU thrash it out. I'll do something more worthwhile, like re-arrange my sock drawer  :smile:


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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Alex213]
    #5838178 - 07/09/06 09:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

The Michelson-Morely Experiment didn't prove the aether does not exist. Larmor, Fitzgerald and Lorentz proposed their famous mass, length and time transformations which Einstein plagorized and led the way for many dishonest people who call themselves scientists and mathmaticians to fake their way through their carreers. Time is not a dimension of space, therefore we have to look at all logic in its true classical Euclidean form. Time moves forward and all time does not exist at the same time.


Edited by Luddite (07/09/06 09:59 AM)


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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Alex213]
    #5838199 - 07/09/06 10:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
let's thrash this out.

I've got a better idea. YOU thrash it out. I'll do something more worthwhile, like re-arrange my sock drawer  :smile:




Wow, that's really ignorant.

So you're willing to voice your negative opinion of someone as long as they pretty much keep thier mouth shut and don't argue back?

Phred is taking the high road and offering you a change to sort out whatever animosity is between you and you decide to be an ignorant dick about it.  If you don't want to 'hash it out' or whatever....DON'T MAKE THREADS ABOUT IT.

No wonder so many good mods end up quitting.  :frown:

Might as well lock this one up.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: CherryBom]
    #5838256 - 07/09/06 10:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It's even more ignorant to make comments when you clearly have no idea of the situation.

For your information, here's what happened. Phred started a thread claiming I had said something I didn't say. He then tried to be clever by misrepresenting my position and then closing the thread before I had a chance to reply. As a consequence I had to start another thread to make it clear I didn't say what Phred claimed I had said.

I would hope you agree that misrepresenting someones position and then closing the thread before they have a chance to reply is an abuse of their modship.

o you're willing to voice your negative opinion of someone as long as they pretty much keep thier mouth shut and don't argue back?


I'm sorry if you think I should engage in a silly pissing contest. I've never really seen the point to them.

you decide to be an ignorant dick about it

You do know flaming is against the rules of the board?

Might as well lock this one up.


I agree.


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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Alex213]
    #5838264 - 07/09/06 10:34 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

:shrug:


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: CherryBom]
    #5838272 - 07/09/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

:rolleyes:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Alex213]
    #5838324 - 07/09/06 10:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

She is right. You make a thread saying what is what, and then you say you won't discuss it?

That's absurd.


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Invisibleblink
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Alex213]
    #5839206 - 07/09/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
I'm sorry if you think I should engage in a silly pissing contest. I've never really seen the point to them.




and yet..... here you are!


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Clarification for Phred [Re: Alex213]
    #5839217 - 07/09/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

For your information, here's what happened. Phred started a thread claiming I had said something I didn't say. He then tried to be clever by misrepresenting my position and then closing the thread before I had a chance to reply. As a consequence I had to start another thread to make it clear I didn't say what Phred claimed I had said.




Standard Alex213 bullshit.

Here's the real story, with links to all pertinent posts so those interested in reality rather than fantasy can check the actual source material rather than just take my word for it --

I created a thread in the Politics, Activism, and Law forum to welcome Redstorm to the forum as its newest moderator. The thread can be found here -- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5819190/an/0/page/1

From that point till Alex213's first post in the thread -- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5826516#Post5826516 -- the thread had been on topic. Congratulations, greetings, some ribbing and goofy comments from some of the non PA&L regulars. For those not inclined to click on the link to Alex213's first post, here it is:

Quote:

Alex213 -- While Redstorm seems more "balanced" than Phred surely the mods should reflect the membership of the board a little better. Three right-wing mods on a politics board seems a little out of kilter.




And that is where the thread stopped being a "welcome Redstorm" thread and turned into complaints about my moderation of the forum -- Phred is less "balanced" in his political views than Redstorm appears to be and the idea of having three "right-wing" moderators in PA&L doesn't sit well with Alex213.

An administrator (Seuss) responds to Alex213's points here -- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5826663#Post5826663 --

Quote:

Seuss -- As long as the moderators moderate fairly, I don't see a problem with their political standing. If any of the moderators start to enforce their personal views upon the debates, then we will replace said moderator. This has seldom been an issue in the past (in any forum), and I don't see any problem in the future with our current group of mods.




The next few posts run as follows --

Quote:

Alex213 -- Perhaps.

However I can't see anything wrong with having a mod on the left for balance and to prevent any "unconscious" favouritism. I've certainly seen examples of "leftist" posters recieving public warnings for behaviour "rightist" posters wouldn't recieve public warnings for because of their friendship with a mod.

Hell, why not have 3 leftist mods for a change if it doesn't matter that much?




Quote:

Seuss -- We tried to get any of the current "lefty" mods to take up some of the slack in this forum, but nobody had time. Phred made a very good post, in the mod forum, that indicated his desire for a lefty mod in PA&L to balance things out. However, when we choose a new moderator, we choose for the site, not just a single forum. As such, the political standing of a new moderator isn't taken into account.

Of the names produced and discussed as potential moderators, we felt that Redstorm would be the best for the site as a whole and would also fit in with the PA&L crowd as well. There could just as easily be three lefty mods in here as three righty mods. Rather than prejudge Redstorm based upon his political standing, I will wait and see how he performs as a moderator. From what I have seen so far, we made a good decision in placing our trust in him.




bi0 contributes his opinion --

Quote:

bi0 -- I think Redstorm is a quality choice. Redstorm will be more impartial and fair than Phred will ever be in situations such as like Alex pointed out. I think the solution to that problem is not a politically-balanced moderation, but a moderation that is fair. I think Redstorm can fill this role. Baby_Hitler is fine albeit not so active in this forum. Phred isnt a good mod in this sense.




Back to Alex213:

Quote:

Alex213 -- I wouldn't prejudge Redstorm as I think he's a fair guy, but I still think 3 right-wing mods at a political forum is questionable.

But as Bio points out, with any luck Redstorm will be a different league to Phred as far as fairness goes.




At this point, I rejoin the thread to ask for clarification from bi0--

Quote:

Phred -- If I'm understanding you and Alex213 correctly, your claim is not that I enforce the rules against "Lefties" too strictly, but that I don't enforce the rules against "Righties" strictly enough?




Alex213's reply is to ask me --

Quote:

Alex213 -- Where did I say this?




At this point I decide to open a different thread to show Alex213 where he said this rather than allow the welcome thread to become further derailed. The second thread starts here -- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5827280#Post5827280 with my opening post:

Quote:

The sole purpose of this thread is to answer Alex213's question posed here -- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5827181#Post5827181 -- rather than to derail the "Welcome Redstorm thread any further.


Phred: If I'm understanding you and Alex213 correctly, your claim is not that I enforce the rules against "Lefties" too strictly, but that I don't enforce the rules against "Righties" strictly enough?

Alex213: Where did I say this?

You said it here, Alex213 -- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5826734#Post5826734 --

Alex213 -- However I can't see anything wrong with having a mod on the left for balance and to prevent any "unconscious" favouritism. I've certainly seen examples of "leftist" posters recieving public warnings for behaviour "rightist" posters wouldn't recieve public warnings for because of their friendship with a mod.




Alex213's response --

Quote:

No I didn't Phred. I said:

"However I can't see anything wrong with having a mod on the left for balance and to prevent any "unconscious" favouritism. I've certainly seen examples of "leftist" posters recieving public warnings for behaviour "rightist" posters wouldn't recieve public warnings for because of their friendship with a mod."

It was YOU who said:

"If I'm understanding you and Alex213 correctly, your claim is not that I enforce the rules against "Lefties" too strictly, but that I don't enforce the rules against "Righties" strictly enough? "

These statements are not the same.

If you wish to discuss your modship take it to another forum. It has nothing whatsoever to do with politics, activism or law.




I'm sure I'm not alone in noting the irony of the one who introduced the topic of my modship into the discussion now complaining that my modship is being discussed. Let's leave that aside for now, though, and move ahead. The final post in the thread is mine --

Quote:

I realize that [these statements are not the same], Alex213. That is precisely why I asked for clarification. Your charge that the forum rules are applied unevenly out of friendship and/or political orientation didn't specify a moderator by name, so it is possible you were speaking of actions performed by Baby_Hitler ...or even by Cervantes or Rono or Trendal or Evolving or Jammer or Lana.

bi0's statement shows he had assumed you were including me in your observation. Knowing the high regard in which you hold me, I wasn't so sure, which is why I asked for clarification.

I'm glad to hear his assumption was incorrect.

Alex213: "If you wish to discuss your modship take it to another forum."

Since your statement has been clarified, and since you don't think my modship should be discussed in this forum, I'll lock the thread.




But Alex213 apparently didn't mind continuing the discussion in the PA&L forum -- as long as he was the one who got the last word. He starts a new thread in the PA&L forum and labels my bowing to his wishes for me to stop discussing my modship (which he brought up in the first place) as an "abuse of my modship" and charges that my cutting and pasting of his own words somehow constitutes a childish misrepresentation of his position. Seuss gets fed up and transfers the thread to this forum. And here we are.

I leave it to the readers of this thread to decide whether my request for clarification to bi0 (also mentioning Alex213) was out of line or not, in the context of Alex213's previous statements (in order)

post#5826516 -- While Redstorm seems more "balanced" than Phred surely the mods should reflect the membership of the board a little better. Three right-wing mods on a politics board seems a little out of kilter.

post#5826734 -- However I can't see anything wrong with having a mod on the left for balance and to prevent any "unconscious" favouritism. I've certainly seen examples of "leftist" posters recieving public warnings for behaviour "rightist" posters wouldn't recieve public warnings for because of their friendship with a mod.

post#5827106 -- But as Bio points out, with any luck Redstorm will be a different league to Phred as far as fairness goes.

And I also leave it to the readers of this thread to decide for themselves whether these three statements by Alex213 can be reasonably interpreted as criticism of Phred's actions as moderator or if they read as just general criticism of PA&L moderators past and present.

Finally, I leave it to the readers of this thread to decide for themselves if my decision to lock a thread I myself had started for the sole purpose of illustrating to Alex213 why I had asked that question of bi0 in the first place constitutes an "abuse of modship", bearing in mind it was Alex213 himself who objected to my creating the thread since it had "nothing whatsoever to do with politics, activism or law."




Phred


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