For ANYONE who is interested in this Swama, please read this whole post.
I figure a history lesson is in order, for all interested.
This problem has gone on for about as long as I can remember. It has INTERFERED with my ABILITY to post freely as a Mod. So, I decided to search by date in ALL forums for the words Swami and Ban.
I got 492 results ( http://www.shroomery.org/forums/dosearch...displaytype=all ), and my suspicions were confirmed. It all really started LAST YEAR, around New Years.
Yup folks, this is story time. Better get a seat, and put on your reading glasses. Get a beer, and perhaps roll a phatty, too. Play some good tunes. This may become the WORLD'S LONGEST POST, but I will pour my heart into it. I promise, for all who have spent HOURS of your time, reading about this shit, this post WILL shed some light.
For all of you patient to look at the history... you will learn something new (and I'll link to it ALL... well all that I can... combined with the other stuff, I tell you, perhaps you ALL can see why this WHOLE thing is so silly).
Here's an interesting post from Seuss. It was made about a week before I became a member here, at the Shroomery. It shows how much has changed in the Administrative views, concerning Swami... in less than a year. It is also a spooky bit of foreshadowing
Two years ago:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post1928757
Seuss said:
Quote:
Fireworks_God said:
Swami: Cannot log into the shroomery. Wonder if I have been banned without notice...
I had noticed a serious decline in interesting posts in S&P this last week...
I cannot imagine that the admin here would ban somebody as mature as Swami (perhaps I should rephrase that... I cannot imagine that somebody as mature as Swami would do something requiring the Admin here to ban him...), let alone without notice...
Technical glitch somewhere, perhaps?
There is nothing else, which is interesting until a year later, in December, right before Swami's first unjust ban. Another bit of foreshadowing...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post3466742
psyka said:
I see no threats of a ban, Swami. Going mad are we? Or is the potential banning a constant?
Perhaps we should design a color coded system to describe this "potential banning?" POTENTIALISM THREAT RED!
hehe. I'm just messing around. It does seem that trendal does pinpoint you, sometimes.
But, I'm not getting involved with this tug-of-war game.
*fades into the darkness, again*
This is when SHIT WENT DOWN. Swami's first, unjust ban.
I was a new Mod, learning the ropes.
Since I can't post links from the Mod Forum, I will tell you what I can remember.
It all started when an S&P Mod started a thread in the Mod Forum, asking if we could ban people just because they are annoying. When prodded, the Mod confessed SWAMI had been an annoyance for YEARS.
AFTER EXTENSIVE DISCUSSION, it was decided we SHOULDN'T BAN PEOPLE FOR NOT BREAKING THE RULES. If SWAMI broke a rule, he COULD BE BANNED. NOT A MOMENT SOONER.
Then, the Mod, who started the thread, after ALL HAD BEEN DECIDED, decided he couldn't take it any more, and PLAYED VIGILANTE. He BANNED SWAMI FOR 24 HOURS.
This is where trouble started to SNOWBALL.
I saw what the Mod in question did, and ASSUMED SWAMI ACTUALLY BROKE A RULE, and posted my support of the Mods action, other mods did too. SOON, an Admin saw what had happened, and the recent feedback, and TOOK IT UPON HIMSELF TO BAN SWAMI FOR 14 DAYS!
It was only AFTER Swami had been banned for 14 days, that it became clear Swami hadn't broken any rule.
Now you must understand, sometimes, when someone gets banned for a long time, even WRONGLY, their ban IS NOT LIFTED, simply so the ban can be discussed with as little drama as possible. This is not always fair, but it is how it works.
The problem is, during this time, the PUBLIC WENT APESHIT, over this unjust ban.
This epic thread says it all. Buffs, take a look!
Here's how it begins.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3489534/page/0/fpart/all/vc/1
Quote:
spudamore said:
well [Email]S@P[/Email] look what this place has become, so much for free speech. if it has come to this lets ban everybody that has a view on any topic.
please post comments or anything of the likes to help remove swami's ban.
its just wrong to ban somebody for being themself, for those people that don't like it, don't react to it. isn't it easier to ignore rather than posting?
And another epic thread from the same ban, which begins:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3496565/page/0/fpart/all/vc/1
fireworks_god said:
This is in regards to the recent ban of Swami, and I will start off with a quote of Shroomism:
Shroomism said:
trendal is not fabricating anything when he says that many S&P members have stopped posting in this forum altogether because they feel that they cannot express themselves without having their threads and ideas ripped apart. In the 5 years that I have been modding here I have personally received at least 40 PMs by different people on this very subject. People who fear to post their beliefs and thoughts in this forum for fear of being lashed out on and having their character 'cut down to size' as it were.
I am baffled that a person would be banned when they get complaints at a rate of eight per year, when their are countless people posting in S and P who do not wish to see action taken against Swami, and not only that, but a majority of active posters have expressed that they are disappointed that Swami was banned. Far more members have praised Swami for playing his necessary part in the S and P experience than the ones who have complained. I do not understand why the administration will cater to such a small, infrequent minority when it alienates and distresses the active majority.
Not only that, but these people that are expressing wishes to have Swami to be banned are suffering apparent social problems, if they have an actual fear of posting thoughts here. Swami obviously isn't responsible for the way others feel, especially since the majority of posters who constantly interface with Swami contend that he is not flaming and that he is not lashing out. It is not the responsibility of every poster in S and P to foster people who have pre-existing neurotic problems. The majority of people posting in Spirituality and Philosophy have grown and matured enough, to the level of adults (as we are all supposed to be, after all) to be able to not have problems expressing themselves in situations of indirect human contact, and to be able to cope with the fact that others naturally are going to hold different viewpoints and challenge our own. I think it is unfair that we are expected to play a kindergarten version of discussion because we have to cater to the lowest common denominator, which happens to be a vast minority.
Quote:
Personally, I have nothing against Swami. I also see him as a valuable contributor and a good person at heart.. however that does not mean he is above the rules and can belittle the members here.
I have not seen any evidence of Swami belittling members in Spirituality and Philosophy or breaking any rules. The one example that was presented was a clearly objective statement that was not a personal attack of any sort. Swami has never openly flamed anyone, and has shown a consistent level of respect for all posters, even though some might perceive a lack thereof merely because his points disagree with theirs, or because they have an overactive ego constantly imagining threat and attack, projecting more onto his statements than he ever intended or meant.
I find it amazing that people are constricting and controlling the discussion of ideas in a forum that is supposedly conducive to open, spiritual debate... I find it harsh that we are not allowed to discuss these matters in our own forum, as this issue directly relates to the happenings of our forum. We are a small, personal community, and to separate discussion of this in our community is simply a control tactic. Our freedom of expression on topics relevant to our forum is being limited and divided. It is proclaimed that spirituality is a very personal thing, and that is why we must allow everyone the space to express it, but others with power who disagree with how certain people express their spirituality and try to teach others spirituality prevent them from doing so.
I find it unbelievable that certain people had to completely disrupt the flow of Spirituality and Philosophy in this manner. Taking that first step of unnecessary control has created chaos in a natural order that was running itself properly. Banning Swami when he did no clear, objective, majority-criticized wrong is an action that belies the very essence of spirituality. It is the equivalent of Shroomism being arrested for drug possession, really. Far more people have acclaimed Swami for directly assisting in their spiritual growth and evolution than those who have bitched and moaned about his inability to allow spiritual discussion (probably the equivalent of an egotistical student who creates an uproar when a fair teacher gave him a deserving, but low, grade on a test).
I have lost a lot of respect for Trendal, I have lost a lot of respect for Shroomism, and if Kaiowas supported the banning of Swami, I have lost even more respect for him (as I personally know him, and such actions would contradict his character). I think it is sad that a whiny minority, with pre-existing emotional and social problems before they ever even interacted with Swami, is being catered to and favored over a majority of interactive posters who love and support the community in which they participate and grow in.
If we are continued to be alienated, I will no longer be able to participate in this community, as what would remain of the community would offer nothing towards the profound benefits it offered before this whole ordeal had to be provoked. Spirituality and Philosophy cannot exist in a space such as what this place inevitably will become if this trend continues... 
 
Peace. 
And another...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post3497578
Swami responded, by sending word to Phluck, before he was a Mod, here is that thread, and the letter from Swami.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post3506464
Quote:
Phluck said
This is not me, these are not my words. I received this from Swami, and he asked that I post it here. These are not my demands, they are his.
Dear Administration,
For me to correct my behavior, I need to understand what I did that was in error. As the administration has had many days and hundreds of posts to present it's case, and to further understanding for me and the community-in-general, I propose the following:
1. A thread in whatever forum is deemed most appropriate and closed to all (for posting not viewing) but myself and one chosen representative of the administration wherein we may view the issue(s) dispassionately and without external "noise".
2. An agreement from the representative to directly respond to my questions in a timely fashion.
3. To respond to certain specific questions with a simple "Yes" or "No" or other one word or very brief answer as directed. This is very important for clarity. There will be no trick questions and no side-stepping when answering.
4. A public viewing of communications between myself and the moderator(s). This cannot be in violation of any decorum as any other members names may be deleted and therefore, no one can get hurt.
5. I get total control of the questioning process until I am satisfied. The questions will be on-topic and fairly limited. Some questions will be posed one at a time until there is a response and others will be posted in a group. Then when I am done, your representative may do the same if he wishes.
I understand that this is private website and I have no leverage to make these "demands". However, I do have faith that those involved are trying to do the right thing, are not fearful of the truth, and in the spirit of community and personal growth, will allow this procedure. Hopefully all involved will learn something.
In spirit,
Swami
Things quieted down, until the ban was lifted a couple weeks later. During that time, it was decided Swami had broken no rules, but he had a BAD ATTITUDE, and MUST CHANGE HIS WAYS.
When Swami returned, we Mods braced for more drama. We didn't wait long.
Swami returned with a vengeance... started a thread in WA&F, found fault with MY (cough) explanations of his bans, and was BANNED AGAIN, for questioning his previous, unjust, ban.
While he was banned, A PUPPET, Swami had created to work around his UNJUST BAN, was discovered. This PUPPET, got Swami banned for a month.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3548438/page/0/fpart/all/vc/1
Quote:
Swami said:
Cervantes: "If a mod asked you to stop doing something, and you practically told 'em to "Shove it." Wouldn't you be risking banishment?"
Is this an honest assessment? Here is the letter in it's entirety:
Dear Trendal,
I hear what you are saying, but I can drive no one anywhere. I am not that powerful. (If I was you wouldn't even think of messing with me!) Here is what I see:
Link to a commercial con-artist site = no problem.
Promote illiteracy - no problem.
Disseminate inaccuracy and erroneous "facts" - no problem.
Attack Swami - definitely no problem because "I deserve it." This you have directly stated on too many occasions and others get away with shit that I NEVER would. I guess that's cool as the standard is not uniform.
Lose a friend? Not sure whom you are talking about, but anyone who is too gutless to contact me directly is not worthy of my friendship. I am not a scary or evil person and almost always listen and respond.
How many PMs have I got complaining? Zero if you don't count the unstable *member name deleted*.
Who starts more threads, brings more info to the forum and helps people when they ask? I would dare say that I have helped to prevent a suicide which in my mind supersedes ALL hurt feelings. Not saying it should give me carte blanche, but to pretend that I am unfeeling or apathetic to others is just plain wrong.
Did you know that I got multiple PMs about your last warning asking what was up with that very mild post? I had no explanation.
Even though no particular post truly violates the forum rules, you want to give me a "lifetime achievement award" for general irritation. Fine. Get out the cross and nails because people mistakenly identify their ideas with themselves. Let's ALL stay stuck in ego and wallow in ignorance while proclaiming we want to move beyond it. The irony is too mucking fuch. First burn the books, then kill off the intellectuals. We have seen this way too many times in history.
I also like you Tren and honestly do appreciate your position, but I have made major contributions. My ratings are uniformly very high, which tells me that most appreciate what I have to offer.
There IS a big difference between flaming and being politically incorrect. I cannot tolerate piss-poor thinking and faulty data. And I certainly do not get paid enough to present things the way others think I should present them.
Your tact and style is great for many. But do we really need two Trendals? That is essentially what you are telling me: that I need to emulate you. Was it really advantageous that evolving and sclorch left because of the noise?
Do what you must. I will not hold it against you, though others might.
Your bud,
Swam
Please point out the part where I said to "Shove it!" Thank you.
Here is the place to take this story in a slightly different direction.
Notice, Swami found fault with what I said?
This is because I WAS FOLLOWING THE MODERATOR CODE OF SUPPORT in public. As a Mod, if I wish to say ANYTHING ABOUT STAFF ACTION IN PUBLIC, it must be in SUPPORT OF THE ACTION.
Get this, I WAS ACTUALLY GIVEN AN ADMINISTRATIVE WARNING, FOR FOLLOWING THE SAME PROTOCOL I RECENTLY BROKE... LEADING TO ANOTHER WARNING AND MY RESIGNATION.
That is right, as a Mod, I got TWO WARNINGS. One for KEEPING THE CODE, and ONE FOR BREAKING IT.
I HAD to step down.
Let that sink in.
Ok, ready for more detail?
Behind the scenes, I was in trouble for SUPPORTING A STAFF MEMBER IN PUBLIC, as PER PROTOCOL... and... I WAS ALSO, IN TROUBLE IN PRIVATE, for DISAGREEING WITH THE ADMINISTRATIVE DECISION TO BAN SWAMI IN THE FIRST, SECOND, THIRD, and FOURTH PLACE!
With Swami's most recent ban, I DID THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT GOT ME IN TROUBLE LAST TIME. I BROKE THE CODE OF SUPPORT, AND WAS HONEST TO THE PUBLIC, WHICH ALSO, GOT ME A WARNING. I STILL GOT IN TROUBLE!
Ironically, I lost MORE SUPPORT FROM THE STAFF, for being HONEST, than for KEEPING THE CODE. Still, I was bitch slapped for both. Damned if I did, and damned if I didn't.
Is it ANY question why I relate to Swami?
Every time his name came up, I got in trouble, EVEN IF I DID THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT GOT ME IN TROUBLE THE LAST TIME.
I had to quit, because I was TRYING MY ASS OFF TO BE A GOOD, HONEST MOD. Fuck you very much.
I sure as hell relate to Swami.
I KNOW how it feels, when you get in trouble for NOTHING BUT HONESTY.
I understand better than MOST WILL EVER KNOW.
My moderation WAS TIED TO HIM, in ways people may never see.
Believe me, I wrote some epic posts in the Mod Forum. I LOVE that place.
Back to Swami's second unjust ban (FOR A MONTH!).
When Swami returned, I actually thought things would work out.
Drama settled, and the S&P Mods really seemed to have learned from their mistakes.
I've been writing for an hour.
I could go on, and move into the PRESENT BANS, but they are just more of the same... and MOST PEOPLE'S memories are fresh. But I'll do it if there is public demand.
THE STAFF HATES SWAMA... simply because his name has come up a LOT THIS YEAR.
They forget his CLEAN record before that, and they forget he STILL OBEYS THE RULES.
Why did I make this post (besides egotism)?
To get people looking at the ROOT OF SWAMIS BANS, the ROOT OF THE S&P SPLIT.
It is ALL THERE FOR YOU TO SEE< if you just use the SEARCH FEATURE.
This whole thing is horseshit.
Things were fine, before the STAFF started THEIR witch hunt.
I actually LOVED MODERATING. I wish the Staff would clear their eyes, and see where they KEEP FUCKING UP. So people like me, can DO THEIR JOBS HONESTLY.
Please FIX THIS LOOP, NOW.
All I have said is true.
Give peace a chance... finish this discussion.
I would love to wake up to this discussion... keep it open. Keep it clean.
--------------------
Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (10/24/05 01:41 PM)
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