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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
George Bush does something right!
    #571735 - 03/06/02 06:44 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The US is imposing duties of 30% on imported steel, ostensibly to protect American jobs, and the living wages they provide. Quite likely the move was done to insure a domestic(reliable) supply of steel as well, by protecting domestic industry.

This action, on it's own, seems like a normal, everyday common sense thing for a governmant to do.

The amazing thing is that nowadays, in the free trade era, this action is very rare thing for a goverment to do, even an illegal thing. It infringes on the free workings of the market place, which are the most efficient means of wealth generation...blah, blah, blah. Bullshit.

Free trade makes it imposible for counties to pursue internal economic policies aimed at self sufiency. It also erodes wages considerably, making life unstable for more people than it helps to stabilize.

Free trade is a system of legally enshrined rights for capital holders to do what ever they will for their own benefit. At the expense of anything else. Environment, workers, civilization, you name it.

This small move by the USA speaks of free trades enormous problems.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Anonymous

Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: carbonhoots]
    #571762 - 03/06/02 07:32 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

You're not a dock worker are?

There will be people put out of work by this action in order to benefit the politically
connected Steel Companies and Steel workers unions. This will also raise prices for
automobiles and other items which require steel. Of course middle class and wealthier
people will just purchase a cheaper model car (which will now cost as much as a
currently mid-priced car). The people who will be hurt the most are those at the lower
end of the wage scale who may want to purchase their own car and get to work. Ultimately,
the increased prices will work their way through the economy and many things will
rise in price.

All this does is put more money in the hands of government and benefits special interests
while helping to maintain inefficient companies that can't compete in the free market.


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OfflineGod_Killer
enthusiast
Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 137
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: ]
    #571793 - 03/06/02 08:18 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

"You're not a dock worker are? "

I used to own a medium sized scrap yard. Market went to hell when all that cheap iron started pouring in from round the world. 25+ year low in the scrap steelmarket. Never did completely recover. Put a whole lot of small, medium and large sized scrap yards out of buisiness(including yours truely), not to mention a lot of (self employed) people that made a good living locating, preparing and selling metals to these yards. Now just a few mostly nationwide corporations like Metal Management run the show. Seems to be holding down prices of all scrap metals and keeping the smaller businesses broke do to a lack of competition(no where else to sell to), Probably a good thing for me if prices go up. I'm sittin on a few old industrial sources for scrap. Maybe I'm back?



--------------------
Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.-Benjamin Franklin


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Offlinesaturnalone
Stranger
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 8
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: carbonhoots]
    #572039 - 03/07/02 01:28 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

bush is a bubblehead. I never understand what he is saying because its so messed up. He uses words that make no sense in a sentance which makes me think he is just saying shit for the camera. A fake.


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:wink:


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 484
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: ]
    #573896 - 03/09/02 02:06 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with evolving. The move looks good on the surface, and it will maybe help the steel industry, but that is debatable. For example, what do you think the car makers next move is? Their next move is to built more plants outside the US for cheaper steel. They will not pay higher prices for steel. They will just go where steel is cheapest.So, there will be lost of jobs there. Then, you have to look at the ports around the US. The port of New Orleans for example receives 45-50% of its income from foreing still imports. This move could be devastating to them and other ports around the US. So, it is not as black and white as it seems. The average americam family will pay more for steel goods. Really, it was a no win situation. However it was a good political move. The states that produce the most steel are very important to Bush in the Next election. So, it may have been a wise political move. It was just another move to appease big business. In the mean time the Us may suffer abroad for the decision, and some of our exports may be affected. The whole word is basically pissed of at the US once again. I just don't see our auto makers sticking around paying 30% for our steel . Do any of you?


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OfflineJammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!

Registered: 11/05/00
Posts: 3,998
Loc: (God's Country) - USA
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: isis]
    #573917 - 03/09/02 02:36 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Hell there isnt any steel left our cars now-a-days. I mean, there like all plastic.

Personally I'm wondering what/if any possible politicle fall out might come out of a recent large music event that The President was invited too. They say that as soon as he seen Steve Wonder that the President WAVED at him.. (has anyone else heard about this) !


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>>Jammer>>


Edited by Jammer (03/09/02 02:38 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: Jammer]
    #573931 - 03/09/02 02:58 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

It's true that the percentage steel used in the production of automobiles has declined. That's
why it's fortunate we don't have high tariffs on all the oil we import to produce the plastic that's
replaced it.

Hey, wait a minute. Won't this action compel auto makers to reduce steel use even further?
In reducing the steel used, won't the automakes turn to using more petroleum products
(plastics)? Isn't Jorge Bush's family fortune heavily derived from the petroleum industry?
Damn Jammer, you've really hit upon something. That Bush is more Machiavellian than
Bill Clinton ever was.


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Offlinemadscientist
journeyman
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 110
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: ]
    #574077 - 03/09/02 10:02 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I actually brought this up in another thread a few days ago. One thing no-on has mentioned so far is the effect that the resulting trade war is going to have on the global economy. Bye-bye salary cheque hello unemployment!


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Instead of the dove as the symbol of peace we should have a pillow. Its got more feathers but doesnt have that nasty sharp beak......


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: isis]
    #574091 - 03/09/02 10:39 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

isis writes:

"The states that produce the most steel are very important to Bush in the Next election. So, it may have been a wise political move. It was just another move to appease big business. In the mean time the Us may suffer abroad for the decision, and some of our exports may be affected. The whole word is basically pissed of at the US once again."

Another textbook example why governments should be forbidden to have anything whatsoever to do with the economy. They should be restricted to their only legitimate function: the protection of their constituents from force.

Cops, courts, miltary. Period.

pinky



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Offlinemm.
addict
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/16/99
Posts: 570
Loc: England
Last seen: 23 days, 5 hours
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: Phred]
    #574117 - 03/09/02 11:15 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The move completely contravenes WTO regulations, and reminds the world of America's hyprosrisy. The US is only too eager to force developing countries to abandon protectionism, but then goes and applies anti free trade protectionist polices to it's own industries.


--------------------
MAPS.org: supporting psychedelic and medical marijuana research since 1986


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 484
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: Jammer]
    #574288 - 03/09/02 04:29 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

LOL.That is funny.Bush waving at Steve Wonder.


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Offlinexylo
addict
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 530
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: carbonhoots]
    #574388 - 03/09/02 06:38 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Don't give Bush the credit. He doesn't know how to make anye decision, one of the people who works for him told him to do this. I don't know the issue well enough to say whether it's a good or bad move, but I know politics well enough that I know Bush is calling the shots The Man tells him to call. Like Asa Hutchinson aka SATAN HIMSELF. Or is that John Aschroft? So hard to tell the difference these days.


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Offlinetomldp
Shroomeur

Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 389
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: xylo]
    #574829 - 03/10/02 07:45 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

This decision reflects the pb. with the USA policy. They FORCE countries to open their borders to their products (that often cause important social problems in these countries), but as soon as they have to face difficulties, they don't respect the rules. They want the advantages, but they never faces the difficulties (while the other countries have to).
This decision is a major scandal. And most american people are not interested/don't know/don't understand what's on.


--------------------
:laugh: Visit and support the Free Spore Ring Europe :laugh:


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 484
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: tomldp]
    #576474 - 03/12/02 03:08 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think it has to do with media coverage as far as the Interest American have in this matter. Things have been really hush hush here in the media. They talked about it for a day or two, but then let it go. Our media thus our people are really in the dark right now.


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OfflineFirestarter
Stranger
Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 12
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: carbonhoots]
    #576591 - 03/12/02 08:33 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

actually if you didnt try so hard to hate him you would see that he does lots of thing right. as far as taxing import steel my view is that he is on to something. if we would tax all imports then the burden of tax on us would be alot less if not wiped out entirely. in the original draft of the constitution taxation was deemed unconstitutional. so if other countries want to sell their goods here while paying $1 per per employee they're going to have to pay. thats only fair. our industries cannot possibly compete with them and jobs are being lost here where it counts.
fuck other countries.


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Anonymous

Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: Firestarter]
    #576698 - 03/12/02 11:33 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

"if we would tax all imports then the burden of tax on us would be alot less if not wiped
out entirely"

Sounds nice in theory, but have you seen how difficult it is to get a tax cut through congress?
The typical socialist ploy is to label any tax cut "a tax cut for the rich" (in politics, perception
is more important than reality).


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Offlinetomldp
Shroomeur

Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 389
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: ]
    #576881 - 03/12/02 02:47 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

"fuck other countries."

That's a real good summary of the US policy ! "Sad but true" (Metallica)
You're a great example of the kind of people who ruin humanity.
Actually, when I posted in this threat, that was the kind of reaction i was waiting for.
Thanks guy, you're an asshole, and you proved it ! ;-) Just kidding. Eventhough I think there's some truth in that statement, we should never forget politics is just politics. I'm sure you could be a nice guy.


--------------------
:laugh: Visit and support the Free Spore Ring Europe :laugh:


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Offlinetomldp
Shroomeur

Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 389
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: tomldp]
    #576888 - 03/12/02 02:55 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

"if we would tax all imports then the burden of tax on us would be alot less if not wiped
out entirely"

If some other countries decided to do that towards the USA, your country would be moneyless ! Think of it. You're not the only people who has the right to live ! Do you know what is the Human Rights Declaration that the USA signed ?


--------------------
:laugh: Visit and support the Free Spore Ring Europe :laugh:


Edited by tomldp (03/12/02 03:00 PM)


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Offlinemadscientist
journeyman
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 110
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: Firestarter]
    #576907 - 03/12/02 03:14 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Fuck other countries? Fuck you! you are the kind of American that fucks it all up for decent Americans. Dont forget that the rest of the world hates you and there are a lot more of us then there are of you. What do you think would happen to the American economy if 'other countries' took the same attitude towards the U.S.?

Guess you never thought of that.


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Instead of the dove as the symbol of peace we should have a pillow. Its got more feathers but doesnt have that nasty sharp beak......


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Anonymous

Re: George Bush does something right! [Re: tomldp]
    #576910 - 03/12/02 03:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think you meant to respond to Firestarter, I didn't say "fuck other countries."
I'm more likely to say "fuck all governments," I like other countries
(people/land/culture), it's dickheads running governments that cause problems.
Why should the government of the U.S. tell me I cannot peacfully trade with someone
who resides in Japan without being punished? It has been said that when goods
cannot cross borders, armies will.


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