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Offlinestefan
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does rye has to be pressurecooked?
    #522127 - 01/16/02 08:48 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

afoaf asked me if he had to pressurecook the rye jars he was preparing for a casing. and honestly, I'm not sure. can't you just cook the jars for one and a half hour? if not, why?

tx


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Re: does rye has to be pressurecooked? [Re: stefan]
    #522137 - 01/16/02 09:20 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

You need to pressure cook rye. Boiling the jars just wont cut it.
The reason being that grain has millions of spores and bacteria inside and the boiling water isnt enough to permeate the grain. Pressure cookers at 15psi reaches 260 degrees F(or 250 I'm not sure) while boiling water only reaches 212.


Edited by Anonymous (01/16/02 09:56 AM)


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: does rye has to be pressurecooked? [Re: stefan]
    #522141 - 01/16/02 09:30 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Elektrolurch mentioned something interesting in a recent post:

"There is actually a method for the sterilization of media based on the fact that bacteria are much more intolerant to heat than endospores. It is called tyndilization or fractional sterilization. It consists of pasteurizing, incubating 24 hours, pasteurizing, incubating, etc... This is made of up to 5 times."

Definitely something worth trying, although time and energy consuming.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: does rye has to be pressurecooked? [Re: Anno]
    #522149 - 01/16/02 09:52 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Fractional sterilization
A sterilisation method used to destroy bacteria and spores which requires no pressure cooker. In this case, the liquid is heated to 212?F (100?C) for 30 min, three days in a row. This can be done in a pan of boiling water or in the microwave. It is important to keep the container covered (with plastic wrap, aluminum foil, or a loosened lid) to prevent the introduction of new spores during boiling and cooling. The basic principle behind this method is that any resistant spores should germinate after the first heating and therefore be susceptible to killing during the second and third heating.


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Offlinestefan
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Re: does rye has to be pressurecooked? [Re: Anno]
    #522202 - 01/16/02 11:29 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

thans Anno, maybe worth trying but it takes more time.
What I did last time I grew shrooms is pressurecook the rye for a while, then put it into jars of the size I need, then cook in a normal pot for 15 minutes. It worked good, no contams! I work this way because my pressurecooker is not big enough to cook jars in it, it is too low. any comments on this method???

tx


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Offlinerice_cake
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Re: does rye has to be pressurecooked? [Re: ]
    #522253 - 01/16/02 12:21 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I also have a problem with not having a pressure cooker and was wondering if I could just grind the rye into powder and use it in 1/2 pint PF style jars in place of the BRF? Could I then just boil them then?


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: does rye has to be pressurecooked? [Re: stefan]
    #522272 - 01/16/02 12:33 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

The fractional sterilisation is based on the fact that spores germinate after they have been cooked for the first time.
A sufficient time span between the individual cooking phases is required to allow the bacterial endospores to germinate, preferably 1 day.
In your case you seem to have luck and your rye bears a low count of bacterial andospores and works even without prolonged pressure cooking or fractional sterilization.

I?m performing a test with birdseed and rye according to the above procedure to see how well the fractional sterilisation works.


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Offlinestefan
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Re: does rye has to be pressurecooked? [Re: Anno]
    #522303 - 01/16/02 12:51 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I should have mentioned how long I pressurecooked the rye, I pressurecooked it fon 1 hour(so all bacterial endospores are killed then right?), then I put the rye in the jars and cooked the jars(with rye) again in a normal pot to kill possible contamination that got on the rye while putting it in the jars.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: does rye has to be pressurecooked? [Re: stefan]
    #523247 - 01/17/02 08:45 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Then it seems that you destroyed all the spores when pressure cooked it, since 1 hour is long enough.


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Invisiblezilch
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Re: does rye has to be pressurecooked? [Re: Anno]
    #523578 - 01/17/02 04:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

This should go into the FAQ, Anno :-))

zilch


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Offlineblackout
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Re: does rye has to be pressurecooked? [Re: Anno]
    #699507 - 06/25/02 02:42 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i am half way through experimenting with 2 jars of wheat grain which i am fractionally sterilising and just found this post.

anno: how did your experiment go?

i was thinking of doing something like stefan too. i.e. pressure cooking a full pot of wheat grain in a pressure cooker
then dumping it into a few autoclave bags and then throwing them in the microwave for 10 minutes while the grain is still hot. those autoclave bags are huge when not folded over lots of times so you may fit the contents of a household pressure cooker in just one and seal it


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