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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4940659 -

Explain to me in what ways the US is more oppressive than China.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4940832 -

the US is the most repressive govt on earth...what matters is the probability of govt action begin taken against you...whether its done so lawfully is irrelevant..since a govt can always widen the sphere of "law" to make it so...

according to the UK world prison report..2001...unfortunately..this is the most recent version available online..but the US has substantially widened its lead to 2.2+ million inmates..almost the population of chicago...in 2001..the US had 686 inmates per 100k vs 111 for china...so the probability of govt action in the US was already 6 times that of china in 2001..and now its even more...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4940851 -

Quote:
what matters is the probability of govt action begin taken against you...whether its done so lawfully is irrelevant


Not true at all. If people are rioting and murdering others, it is hardly oppressive to incarcerate these people.

If, on the other hand, all they are doing is voicing political dissent, it is quite oppressive to arrest them.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4940857 -

> but the US has substantially widened its lead to 2.2+ million inmates..

I always felt these statistics were unfair. The US puts somebody in jail which gets counted while Iran chops off somebodies hand and lets them go. The statistic shows that the US is evil in this case while Iran isn't even mentioned. There is much worse than jail time...

However, I agree that the US has way too many people in jail for non-violent consensual crimes. Very stupid to try and legislate morality.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Seuss]
    #4940896 -

First of all I would look at the source, I am not a big fan of CNN is runs primarily by Democrats. Hints the tern Clinton New Network during the Clinton years. I do believe there is more to this story that what is told.

WB


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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Seuss]
    #4940897 -

Quote: ..the US is by far the most repressive country on earth

You need to go live in China for the same amount of years as you have lived in the USA, in order to have any basis to that statement.

For the limited time I spent in Hong Kong (which is the most liberal part of China) My experience was totally opposite. Their were police with dogs ON EVERY CORNER,EVERY WERE, ALL THE TIME. Granted, Hong Kong is a major hub internationally,, but shit just the mood of the place was enough to send chills down your spine.

People like you don't realize how good you have it.......


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4940987 -

i havent been to china..but i have been to many other countries..and of those..only israel even begun to approach the US...but i have travelled to myanmar..which is supposedly a notorious human-rights abuser..and still i felt a greater subjective sense of freedom there than here...

whatever country your in..your still the zebras and their still the lions...how "free" you are depends on how many lions per zebra there are...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: WhiteBunny]
    #4941023 -

WhiteBunny said:
First of all I would look at the source, I am not a big fan of CNN is runs primarily by Democrats. Hints the tern Clinton New Network during the Clinton years. I do believe there is more to this story that what is told.

WB



I take it you didn't actually click on the link?

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4941150 -

what matters is the probability of govt action begin taken against you..

actually no. if i am a serial killer, there is a very high chance of serious government action against me. that does not mean i live under an oppressive regime.

nation "a" is a place where individual freedom absolutely does not exist. all individual activity is directed to serve the all-powerful state. there are no elections, the media is controlled by the state, and there is no freedom of expression... there is no freedom whatsoever. because the entire population is meek and obedient, it is rare for a person to actually be sent to prison.

nation "b" is a place where individual freedoms are widespread and government power limited, but there is a high rate of violent crime and severe penalties imposed. consequently, nation "b" has a higher incarceration rate than nation "a".

which is more repressive?

what makes a government repressive is the extent to which it represses the activity of the people. what matters is not the "probability" that the government will act against you, but in response to what. what do they prevent you from doing?

in what ways did you find burma less repressive than the united states? what could you do, and what did you observe others doing, that is prohibited in the united states?


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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: wilshire]
    #4941245 -

I agree with everybody who's said that the comparison between China and the US is pretty ludicrous. The Chinese government has cultural and economic controls undreamed of in the US.


However, the US has the highest rate of incarceration in the world, and most prisoners are in prison for non-violent crimes. To me, this is pretty clearly incompatable with America's image of freedom.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: phi1618]
    #4941284 -

i got to take a little "tour" of a typical american county jail for a few months this past summer, and let me tell you that 95% of the people serving time there were in for total bullshit reasons. it's a little different upstate, but there are people serving long sentences there for stupid shit as well. it's a huge shame.

america has a long way to go, but it is ignorant, and an offense to the billions of people living under truly repressive regimes, to claim that we americans are the most repressed people on earth.

to address annapurna's original accusation, there is nothing hypocritical about bush's remarks about china, because he is not demanding that the chinese government do anything his administration is not willing to do.


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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: phi1618]
    #4941320 -

Quote:
However, the US has the highest rate of incarceration in the world, and most prisoners are in prison for non-violent crimes.


That's the problem with allowing the populace input into the law-making process as is the case with countries with democratically-elected legislative representatives. The reps in order to buy votes legislate what they believe their constituents want to see legislated.

The problem is further exacerbated when the top appellate courts decide to overstep their authority and act as legislators rather than as a brake on legislators.






Phred


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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: wilshire]
    #4942119 -

Quote:
wilshire said:to address annapurna's original accusation, there is nothing hypocritical about bush's remarks about china, because he is not demanding that the chinese government do anything his administration is not willing to do.


and since when is bush willing to give his ppl more freedom??...bush is actively lobbying for torture..ffs...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4942607 -

Nothing like using editorials to attempt to prove a point.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4942701 -

Editorials frequently include statments of fact.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: phi1618]
    #4942713 -

That one has no references whatsoever, so it's impossible to determine whether that one does or does not.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4942910 -

i must have missed the part where bush called on china to abandon "cruel, inhuman, or degrading" interrogation techniques for terror suspects.

how about that burma question?


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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4942920 -

Annapurna1 writes:

Quote:
bush is actively lobbying for torture..ffs...


incorrect. Bush has repeatedly said the US does not torture, and Bush most certainly is not "actively lobbying" for torture.




Phred


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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Phred]
    #4944412 -

:rotfl: ...

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5139141

Quote:
This week saw the sad spectacle of an American president lamely trying to explain to the citizens of Panama that, yes, he would veto any such bill [mccains' anti-torture amendment] but, no, "We do not torture."



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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4944698 -

the bush administration is actively lobbying for the ability to torture and exclusions from torture bills. Its pretty sad that you believe this stuff Phred esp. as it is "public knowledge."


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"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."

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