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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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more hippocrysy(sp) from bush...
    #4938228 -

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/11/15/apec.bush.china.ap/index.html


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4938405 -

And once again we have our very own Annapurna1 making up thread titles at random -- thread titles which have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject of the content involved.

Don't ever change, Anna.





Phred


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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4938415 -

is this about hippos crying?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Phred]
    #4938608 -

the thread title is obviously not random, and expresses a view on the article. In that, it is very pertinent, having everything to do with the subject and content. Lets address the view on the matter she espouses, instead of sidestepping and ignoring it. What political/social freedoms do we see as lacking or insufficient in the United States?


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"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4939044 -

"Research into the mainland Chinese Internet censorship has shown that blocked websites include:

* Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party by The Epoch Times (found to be among the most extensively blocked subjects [1]).
* Sites related to human rights, freedom of speech, democracy, etc.
* Websites with pornographic content
* News from many foreign sources, especially websites which include forums. BBC News, Hong Kong News sources are censored.
* Information about Tibet independence.
* Information about Falun Gong
* Sites critical of top Chinese leaders.
* Some websites based in Taiwan
* Some websites based in Hong Kong, or with content about Hong Kong. Yahoo Hong Kong is blocked.
* Overseas Chinese websites

Wikimedia sites, including Wikipedia, have recently been blocked for the third time. See Blocking of Wikipedia in mainland China."

some words that cannot be searched using search engines in china:

democracy
human rights
dictatorship
genocide
oppression
dalai lama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_China

i wonder if they can get to the shroomery...


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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Phred]
    #4939197 -

Phred said:
And once again we have our very own Annapurna1 making up thread titles at random -- thread titles which have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject of the content involved.

Don't ever change, Anna.





Phred


only a true-blue-dyed-in-the-wool moron would try to claim that bush telling the chinese or anyone else to extend more freedoms isnt hippocrysy(sp)...

and BTW..your earlier post is almost a flame..similar to posts which have ellicited warnings from none other than phred himself...talk about hippos crying...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4939213 -

So I take it you feel Bush is somehow removing freedoms from Americans? Would you care to specify a few?





Phred


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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4939469 -

do yourself a favor...at least have the decency to lookup hypocrisy.

it costs about as much as 2 (sp?)'s


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Phred]
    #4939509 -

Freedom to know if the government is spying on you, or to have judicial review of requested information, or the ability to lawfully let anyone know when you provide information to gov't agents, to start with. Plenty more where that came from...


In any case, I agree that the thread title's silly. The Chinese are way more repressive than America under Bush - hell, I can even access the google cache.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4939571 -

Quote:
"I have pointed out that the people of China want more freedom to express themselves ... to worship without state control ... and to print Bibles and other sacred texts without state control."


the way he talks is very childlike


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: phi1618]
    #4939593 -

Quote:
Freedom to know if the government is spying on you, or to have judicial review of requested information, or the ability to lawfully let anyone know when you provide information to gov't agents, to start with. Plenty more where that came from...


These are all bills introduced since Bush became prez? Who were the sponsors of the bills? Dems or Reps? Were the bills introduced at Bush's request or were they the ideas of the sponsoring pols themselves?

What were the vote tallies on the bills? Broad bi-partisan support or narrow squeakers?

See where I'm going with this? Blaming every new piece of legislation on Bush is nuts. Hell, Bush can't get the bills he wants passed at all (permanent tax cuts, ANWR drilling, Social Security reform, his extremely modest budget cuts) and folks (even some Republicans) are introducing bills he DOESN'T want to see passed all the time.

You give the office of the presidency WAAAAAAY too much credit for what goes on inside the US.





Phred


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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Phred]
    #4939615 -

Partially, these are a result of the PATRIOT act,
but they are also a result of executive interpretation of law, and memos sent from the state dept. to the FBI.
This is to the point that at least one ex-senator that spoke out strongly in defense of certain provisions of law has totally flipped his opinion on the matter in light of the executive application of the law.


I'll find a link, tomorow (when I'm sober).

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Phred]
    #4939622 -

If he was that opposed to the intrusion on his citizen's rights, he would use that nifty little veto power he has to stop it.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4939630 -

Yeah, but at least he did something good this time.







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Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Phred]
    #4939723 -

The executive has significant lattitude in determining how bills are interpreted and enforced, through executive orders and official published policy from the various depts.


What I'm talking about here is "national security letters". They are basically demands for information by the executive branch (FBI) which recieve no judicial review before or after the fact, nor do they recieve public review as it is illegal to reveal that you have recieved one. There are now appx. 30000 issued each year, each of which can cover the records of any number of people.

Here's the link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/05/AR2005110501366_pf.html


Key quotes from above link relavent to my point (added emphasis mine):
Quote:
The Patriot Act, and Bush administration guidelines for its use, transformed those letters by permitting clandestine scrutiny of U.S. residents and visitors who are not alleged to be terrorists or spies.


Quote:
Late last month, President Bush signed Executive Order 13388, expanding access to those files for "state, local and tribal" governments and for "appropriate private sector entities," which are not defined.


Michael J Woods, chief of FBI national security law unit in Nov. 2001 (supporting/designing patriot act):
Quote:
Standing guidelines, he wrote, "require that the FBI accomplish its investigations through the 'least intrusive' means. . . . The greater availability of NSLs does not mean that they should be used in every case."


Quote:
On May 30, 2002, and Oct. 31, 2003, Ashcroft rewrote the playbooks for investigations of terrorist crimes and national security threats. He gave overriding priority to preventing attacks by any means available.


Quote:
Ashcroft remained bound by Executive Order 12333, which requires the use of the "least intrusive means" in domestic intelligence investigations. But his new interpretation came close to upending the mandate. Three times in the new guidelines, Ashcroft wrote that the FBI "should consider . . . less intrusive means" but "should not hesitate to use any lawful techniques . . . even if intrusive" when investigators believe them to be more timely. "This point," he added, "is to be particularly observed in investigations relating to terrorist activities."


This illustrates some of the power the presidency has over how laws are put into practice, as opposed to the intent of those who drafted and signed the laws.



Also, the president and his advisors wield significant influence over the political climate and the laws passed through public relations efforts.
As an example of the sorts of things they've been up to:
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=13371&c=206

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: phi1618]
    #4939747 -

I don't mean to excuse the actions of our totally shit-for-brains congress, by any means - I'm just making the contention that the Bush administration has made significant and influential moves to concentrate power in the executive and curtail the traditional freedoms of ordanary Americans.
Bush has done everything in his significant power to increase the intrusiveness of the government into our everyday lives and attenuate the checks and ballances provided by our 3-branch system of government.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: phi1618]
    #4939976 -

Quote:
phi1618 said:In any case, I agree that the thread title's silly. The Chinese are way more repressive than America under Bush - hell, I can even access the google cache.


not necessarily...i say "not necessarily" instead of "no" because china has more executions...however..in terms of the probability of govt action against you (lawfully or otherwise)..the US is by far the most repressive country on earth..and this was true before bush...either way..no POTUS is in any position to tell another country to extend more freedoms while we continue to hold that distinction..let alone a bush bent on creating even more repression...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4939993 -

That's a pretty good point - the drug war has led the US to have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Something along the lines of 1/3 black males has gone or will go to prison.

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Phred]
    #4940477 -

its not even just about Bush, like Phred likes to try to argue to dodge the point as always, he can be a hypocrite by saying this shit when America and not just his administration is not holding up to values espoused.


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"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."

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Re: more hippocrysy(sp) from bush... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4940565 -

the US is by far the most repressive country on earth

classic, anna, classic.

the united states is not the most repressive country on earth. these kind of sentiments show a willful ignorance of the human rights attrocities being commited by governments all over the world.

it cracks me up when people bitch and bitch about "repression" in the united states when they have never experienced repression here or elsewhere. there are things going on in this country that are absolutely insane (which i have experienced first hand), and i intend on leaving it as soon as i am able. however, i will not be choosing to move to: cuba, north korea, china, burma, thailand, singapore, iran, saudi arabia, syria, libya, sudan, eritrea, laos, or a few dozen others. what government repression have you experienced? in what ways is say... burma, less repressive than the united states?


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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