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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4714819 -

But several people here want P without faith and that's incompatible with S.
I think, that is only an experiment, too :grin:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4714844 -

What I'm getting out of this...
Philosophical side can easily handle the spiritual side. It is all discussion.
Spiritual side can not handle philisophical side. It is all wanting to believe without question(faith).

I agree that the solution is a split or a "sissy" disclaimer.
What should be done?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from 09/26/05 02:36 PM until the end of time

View the results of this poll



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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

Edited by daimyo (09/26/05 02:50 PM)

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4714854 -

Philosophy has nothing to do with faith.

Philosophy is about presenting the steps by which you arrived at a conclusion and asking the world to ruthlessly scrutinize your steps to find errors and inconsistencies if any exist.

Faith is about arriving at a conclusion absent any explanation and believing it to be correct for no reason other than your belief.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4714879 -

But again you are only looking at the Philosophy side of the forum!

Faith has everything to do with Spirituality, agree?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4714994 -

No, I don't agree. Faith is belief without cause. That is not spirituality; that is dogma and stagnation.

Spirituality is about growth and truth. That means not only accepting criticism, but actively seeking it out so as to refute your erroneous beliefs or validate them if true.

That's why I come here: to put my beliefs in the crucible and see if they'll stand the light of truth. If they survive, I recycle them back into the fire to make sure, if they don't survive, I dump them unceremoniously and move forward. That's spirituality.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4714996 -

trendal said:
But again you are only looking at the Philosophy side of the forum!

Faith has everything to do with Spirituality, agree?


Is it forbidden to examine spirituality from a philosophical angle?


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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4715002 -

Diploid said:
No, I don't agree. Faith is belief without cause. That is not spirituality; that is dogma and stagnation.

Spirituality is about growth and truth. That means not only accepting criticism, but actively seeking it out so as to refute your erroneous beliefs or validate them if true.

That's why I come here: to put my beliefs in the crucible and see if they'll stand the light of truth. If they survive, I recycle them back into the fire to make sure, if they don't survive, I dump them unceremoniously and move forward. That's spirituality.  :mushroom2:


:thumbup:


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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4715010 -

Ditto.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4715273 -

Well put. If one seeks only to justify erroneous claims with blind affirmation the truth is being avoided.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4715332 -

Faith is belief without cause.

No. Faith is belief without proof. There is a difference.


So what would you say the difference is between Philosophy and Spirituality? If they are both methods of growth and finding truth, and can both be attained using the same tools (debate, logic, reason) then why have both? Why not just rename the forum to the Philosophy and Debate forum?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4715572 -

Quote:
If someone says marijuana should be illegal, I shouldn't be able to say "you're dumb" but I should be able to say "that's a dumb idea", especially if I follow up with the reasoning behind my comment.


now that's a dumb distinction!

Quote:
Anything more in the rules requires that I dilute my message by couching it in sissy language so the poster's feelings don't get hurt. This muddies communication unnecessarily and has no place in philosophical discussion.


using euphemism is different from being non-judgmental (or is it un-judgmental?)

Quote:
As has been suggested before, if you don't want your ideas scrutinized, post them in the Pub or preface your post with a Sissy Disclaimer so everyone walks on eggshells in your thread.


this name-calling makes me too intimidated to ever post with a disclaimer :sad:

maybe it's better if i'm too intimidated to post in the first place. :frown:

Quote:
Problem solved for both skeptics and those prone to hurt feelings.


are those the only choices?  what about the skeptics prone to hurt feelings?


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4715610 -

Yep Crunchy, it's that name calling that gives the intent away. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4715617 -

So what would you say the difference is between Philosophy and Spirituality?

Philosophy is a method to Spirituality the destination.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4715650 -

now that's a dumb distinction

Thanks for contributing to the discussion with a demonstration of belittling: a down comment with no supporting argument of any kind.

using euphemism is different from being non-judgmental (or is it un-judgmental?)

Not sure what you're trying to say here, but:

Merriam-Webster on Euphemism:

the substitution of an agreeable or inoffensive expression for one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant

Condensed, this says euphemism is substituting a less precise expression of what you intend to communicate for the sole purpose of sparing someone's feelings. If someone's feelings are a function of my words rather than my true meaning, then they have issues.

That's like being satisfied with an known insincere apology.

this name-calling

If Sissy Disclaimer (a v-r-y apt name for it) is offensive, what alternate name do you propose?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4715661 -

Um...why not just "Disclaimer"?

I wasn't aware that calling people names is how Philosophy gets done. :shrug:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4715673 -

Disclaimer is imprecise. There are many types of disclaimers.

Alright, how about Timid Person Disclaimer. Is that better? I'll buy another term as long as it's precise and by that I mean it indicates that the person making the disclaimer is thin skinned and doesn't want criticism which is the complete truth.

What do you suggest?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4715690 -

I already suggested it, check my post above yours :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4715696 -

Also, I'd really like to hear about all these "types of disclaimers".

How many types are there, and what are they named? What is the difference between different "types" of disclaimers?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4715707 -

Disclaimer: Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.

:tongue:

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4715714 -

Trendal, the word Disclaimer by itself means only that you disclaim something, it does not say what you are disclaiming. This is imprecise. Part of successful philosophical discussion is precision of formulation so that each side knows as exactly as possible what the other side is talking about.

The word sandwich is not good enough because it doesn't say if there's cheese involved. For the same reason, the word Disclaimer is not good enough because it doesn't say what is being disclaimed.

Now, given the above, what modification would you add to the word Disclaimer to make it clear that the person disclaiming is disclaiming their thin skin and aversion to criticism?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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