Home | Community | Message Board


Shroom Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Beef Jerky

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
OfflinePsiloman
member
Male
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
"Skeptic" on my "skeptisism"
    #3018125 - 08/18/04 02:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Lately i devoted some thought under the light of current events to my skeptisism.Many people who know me mention one way or another that "i think a lot" which carries a rather negative connotation.

I am a person that likes the logical route.It is "common sense" for me to go about examining an event or a claim the logical way: researching it (if there is some material on it somwhere in internet/library),observing it and trying many different explanations.i try not to jusmp in conclusions even if those conclusions might suit me or make me "happier"

So 3 recent events

1)I was having a discussion with my friend,a dear friend on various topics and at one point he tels me he can sees "Auras".Now,he is pretty spiritual person ,researching many religions and he is quite well read on the matter.I ask him to describe this phenomenon to me,when it occurs,how does it look,any special circumstances and other details and upo closer examination i tell him its just "afterimages" like the ones you get when you stare att something for a long time.Aparently they eye does jerky movements as well so the "afterimage" (a negative image as i derived from his description" moves slightly above the person and looks like an "aura".When i explained it to im he was like"Oh...they are not auras after all...". It was so simple to find out and so simple to understand that i felt a bit anger towras him that he hasnt found out himself.How could he go around beliebing it was Auras?Why didnt he at least TRY to explain it to himself?

2)I meet this girl ,who is into as i understood "new age trends".o at one point she gives me a crystal and she says that this will "harmonize my energy field to the Shuman resonance of the earth.It will make me absorb more bioenergy and will raise my serotonine and dopamine levels and make me a happier person".Well...IMHO classic "new age stuff" ,mixing occultism with some scientific terms and coming up with an...advanced pseudoscientific theory.Here i "arrested" myself asking her where she acquired this knowledge and asking her to explain it better to me.At one point she was at a loss for words and her replies seemed like the ones Swami gets when he uses logic on people or proposes his 20000$ bets.

3)I was at a friends reunion and a person there stated some very farfetched theories about humans coming from other planets like Andromeda,and planets of lizardlike creatures that now have assumed political positions of power in our planeet.As above i couldnt hold myself and although he still is fond of his theory my scrutiny reduced it to mere bulshit at least for the people listening to the conversation...

What is the purpose of people believing in many phenomena and paranormal activities that Swami likes so much to dissaprove?

I have concluded that
1) It might make some people content thinking they figured out higher meanings
2)Might answer personal needs for security (like the idea of god)
3)Might fulfill the need for "mystery" and "unexplianable"
4)The whole theory might just suit them!

So do i have the right to say my opinion,and scrutiny those theories? Some of them an be dispelled very easily,and this dispell can hurt the other persons feelings.SOmeimes i get angry on "why on the earth havent they thought of this themselves and i HAD TO dissaprove it for them,i had to show them evidence and logical deductions that they could have found or performed themselves.."

So...What needs does my skeptisism fulfill?
Am i missing the point somewhere? Is my "scrutiny methods" coutnerproductive to the point that even if i state something correct the meaing of what i say crashes on the huge wall that my words have triggered,the listeners personal defences?
.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: "Skeptic" on my "skeptisism" [Re: Psiloman]
    #3018534 - 08/18/04 03:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm guessing this was a serious post. Not sure why you posted this other then to reafirm things for yourself about your self or have them reaffirmed by others.

This would fall under your conclusion 2) A need for personal security

or maybe, you posted because of your conclusion 1) maybe it makes you feel content to think you have things figured out with a lower meaning

or maybe like 3) it fullfills your need to have mysteries explained.

or maybe you posted it because of your 4th conclusion 4) your whole logical reasoning just might suit YOU.

Seems to me that you have a lot in common with people you find to be so different from you.

I read what you said about aruas and it hasn't changed my beleif in them one bit. Sounded to me like you were describing tracers seen by people tripping and thats different. Even the physical human body can be compared to the positive print image of a negative image. I guess that invalidates your physical existance along with your auric one. Be careful with reducing everything down to meaningless nothingness lest you create it for yourself in your reality. You mentioned happiness but that sounds awfully sad to me and like a pitiful waste of human potential.

In answer to your final question, I would say that your need to be skeptical is fullfilling all of the above conclusions you came to about others who are not skeptics and something else up ahead here.

I am all for questioning stuff and if the answers of others don't suit me and the ones I formulate for myself do better then that's all there is to it. Their life goes on and so does mine.

Sometimes, i wonder about people who havn't openned up yet and hear all of these fantastical stories of other peoples experiences and some how feel left out or left behind and in that insecurity become bitter and trash on them to bring them back to where they are. But that comes down to simple jealousy insecurities.

The fact that you said you become ANGRY with people who are not as smart as you reveals a lot. I would say that you have deeply buried anger and your skeptical aproach is a guise for unleashing those emotions out onto others.

Hmmmmmmm, why don't you lay down on the couch and tell us about your childhood? Did your dad or mom criticise you for not thinking through stuff intelligently as kid? Might you be rehashing the pattern to heal it?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (08/18/04 04:21 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: "Skeptic" on my "skeptisism" [Re: Psiloman]
    #3019177 - 08/18/04 05:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Basically, most everybody (myself included) would like to believe in magical things. Mankind was heading for greater and greater enlightenment (intellectual, not mystical), but the world became too complex and overwhelming. Today people are seeking a way out or at least a way to cope (besides anti-depressants). Many look back towards ancient myths and practices and attempt to put a modern pseudo-scinetific spin on them so as to make them more acceptable.

This "need to believe" overrides logic and evidence, as we are generally so hungry to find a way out of the morass.

It is the rare individual who will thank you for disillusioning them. Keep up the good fight anyway.  :thumbup:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePsiloman
member
Male
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: "Skeptic" on my "skeptisism" [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3020158 - 08/18/04 09:49 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks both of you for your answers. I do not claim to "have the ultimate answer" but at least i am trying to find some answers and share them with other people as well.I never claimed being smart,i believe im about the "average joe" intelliegnecewise but i strive to use it at its fullest.

Jiggy my friend,you spoke your mind and i admire it.Surely,everyone has his agenda,his insecurities and his needs.I am human (at least someone proves i am not!) and ia have my fair share of "personal baggage" handed to me by childhood,parents,personal experiences etc etc.I never claimed to be a person free of passions and let me tell you i have serious flaws that i am unfortunate enough to perceive and try to change.One of them is being strict,first and foremost with my self and then with others.I may sound harsh and my words sometimes might insult someone because when i speak my mind i am not tactfull.You werent "tactfull" with me either bu i appreciated it because you didnt sugarcoat the pill.Most people dont though and theres where they get offended. Coming to the point of my reply ,i want to inform that im not a sadist either,i dont feed of others people pain nor i have an inferiority complex so making other people look small give me a mental "hard on".Personally,i do not believe i am skeptic becausei like to see other people coming "crashing down"...

Believe me ,my sceptisism is not something that goes down easily,even with myself.Its not what i would call "Fun" or "happy-go-lucky" attitude.I just wanted some opinios so i posted.It fulfils my needs of expresion and receiving what other people,with other standards and realities have to say.And of course this reply and all of the above suits my theories,hence i write it,same thing with all people posting about UFO's Paranormal,Jesus turning water into wine and the rest.Oh by the way,my childhood was perfect exept a rather unhealthy pressure my father exerted on me on the "school and studying" issue.I cant say this hasnt left remnants in my soul,but those remnants are expressed through some other "faults" of mine ,not through skeptisismi...

Alas,i try to dissilusion people when i think i can offer them something that could be beneficial for them.In the prossess maybe i will have to dessilusion myself from the illusion that i could ever be capable of disillusioning others.

Let me paraphrase an ancestor of mine,Socrates ,a member of "-Getting fucked up on Hemlock and lovin it -Club" :blush:ne thing i know for sure that i know what only my "reality" allows me to claim i know (I know jackshit ,in other words)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineScarfmeister
Thrill Seeker
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 8,127
Loc: The will to power
Last seen: 3 years, 27 days
Re: "Skeptic" on my "skeptisism" [Re: Psiloman]
    #3020220 - 08/18/04 10:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

These mysticism guys just want to think they are somehow special and unique. That they alone have uncovered some secret ancient knowledge. I'm generalizing but thats what i have experienced.


--------------------
--------------------
We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: "Skeptic" on my "skeptisism" [Re: Psiloman]
    #3020330 - 08/18/04 10:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

  :hug:

I really enjoyed reading that from you! :thumbup: It was from the heart  :heart: and not the ego and you know what, what ever baggage you may think you have washes away in the light of your heart.

I'm not tactful and never was, part of baggage from having a dad who gave me my medicine straight-figuratively and literally. He use to make me drink healthy protein powders mixxed with warm water, made me want to barf! :puke: He could've blended it up in chocolate milk or something but nooooooooo, I had to be tough like him and drink barf water.

Alas, his intentions were well meaning. He wanted me to grow healthy.
No doubt, at least in your mind, your intentions are well meaning also. What you think of yourself is all that matters.

You did ask for some objective insight and I gave it to you. There is stuff the ego hides from us that others can see that we don't about ourselves. It takes a courageous person to put themselves out there with the intent of gaining greater self understanding and I admire you for that.

A toast to all of us being human at the end of the day, with childhood baggage and wiping our asses in the morning-no one any better or worse! :cheers:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePsiloman
member
Male
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: "Skeptic" on my "skeptisism" [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3020444 - 08/18/04 10:44 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the kind words,you know "questioning" can sometimes be received as an attack and some people attack back,so it was nice to get some nice wordsin this thread.

Thinking on it a bit more,i found which part might actually "bother" me in what i call "far fetched theories" that some people support. For example ,take a very nice and correct IMHO idea like "Love eachother,care about others".Its nice by itself and i really believe that if you live by it ,its an excellent thing to do at your short stay at "Hetel Earth.Now if someone dresses it with further details like who said it,who were his/her followers ,how many years this person lived and so on and so forth you make a story about it the meaning can be lost.This can be seen in many threads dealing with religions.People tend to argue if christ was really performing miracles,if Ganesha had 20 cm tusk or 30 cm tusk and generally all this detail can cause unessesary deviation from the "teatching" or basic meaning.
What i really mean is that even when im questioning auras,ufo's.crystals ,reptilians from other planets i am NOT rejecting the "moral" or their story,the "extract" that some of the theories can offer. Talks about christianity are a good example.People argue on many points like "how virgin mary was a virgin but she gave birth to jesus","if christ was a human" etc and yes,i can question those as well with very rigid (to the point of my psychological breakdown point) logic.What my questioning might "offend" is the existence of all this "detail coating".Personally i like the "love eachother" teaching and the "be pure at heart like children" and thats what i extract and try to live by from the religion called christianityI do not reject the core,i question and sometimes reject the coating...

In the exaple with that "new age gir"?: She wanted me to feel nice ,to be healthy and happy thats why she offeredthe crystal.I distil and keep that,thats a very nice move and full with good intentions.If i believe to the crystal and her caring about me it will make me feel good and happy even if all her "theory" behind its powers is erroneus.What i questioned was her theory,not the her motive or the essence.

Um,in simple words i think that many details in theories might make people loose themselves in them and ignore the meaning they carry....

On the other hand,couldnt it be the case that trying to dispell the details I am the one that looses the menaing?

Oh my good,its hard living with a sceptic 24/7.Even worse if that skeptic is ones self and selfquestions....

Anyway,bo bad intenion,no ill meaning in what i write at least thats what i hope my words carry over


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: "Skeptic" on my "skeptisism" [Re: Psiloman]
    #3020528 - 08/18/04 11:09 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"So do i have the right to say my opinion,and scrutiny those theories? "

oh hell yes you do!!  :hug:

as long as you don't  belittle them it's all good.  just don't judge them so harshly, and it'll be way easier to discuss with them.  yes, discuss, try not to argue :wink:  even if they get pissed

"Some of them an be dispelled very easily,and this dispell can hurt the other persons feelings."

don't take it on all yourself, they are the reason for getting mad, not you.  it's their ego, not yours that's hurting.

"SOmeimes i get angry on "why on the earth havent they thought of this themselves and i HAD TO dissaprove it for them,i had to show them evidence and logical deductions that they could have found or performed themselves..""

jsut try not to get angry as much, as the ego tends to do often.  sometimes many of these kids are taught these ideas at a younger age and just don't know any better yet.  sometimes not...whatever the reason, you will save yourself energy, and your peace of mind by not judging them.  course, that's my "thing"  not disturbing ones peace of mind :wink: *nudge*

"So...What needs does my skeptisism fulfill?"

you are fulfilling yourself no?  you feel the need to do it, and so you do it.  and in the process you are helping them out.  like swami said, you will rarely get someone who will thank you for disillsuioning them, but...do it anyways!!!  :grin:


"s my "scrutiny methods" coutnerproductive to the point that even if i state something correct the meaing of what i say crashes on the huge wall that my words have triggered,the listeners personal defences?"

like everything I have said here, it's just my opinion, but just don't be angry at them, or don't belittle them, and I wouldn't see any kind of counter productiveness.  try to show them rather than tell them.  ak questions, and jsut hat, jsut quesitons, and have them answer.  even if they are stumbling over themselves, jsut be patient, you can learn a lot by doing this, and the other person will see that you are trying to help them out (or at least a little bit more as opposed to arguing with them).

awesome psiloman!!  just don't believe you are correct 100% of the tiome and it's all good!

as always I like giving out advice as well, but don't rely on your happiness on what happens.  just be happy for no other reason but because you are here.  it is a wonder in itself is it not?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: "Skeptic" on my "skeptisism" [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #3020538 - 08/18/04 11:11 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Shroomnoob,

I have a question for you and anyone that cares to address it. Now, i get pretty trippy in my own head drug free and its rare for me to come accross anyone more far out there, cept for space dragon types. I read him and think, That dude has got one hell of a trip going on and hope he parties on cuz he seems to be diggen it. I don't think he is any greater and I don't think he thinks he is any greater- he's just a far out dude sharing his journey.

TWICE in the last year, two people came forward on message boards with big ass egos who wern't comprehensively following conversations or having the 'same" trippy experiences or  abilities in play and made childish anger filled cracks that they felt like they were being left behind. What the fuck is that? Left behind where and from what?

Thats why I made the comment I did a few posts back.  People who share trippy experiences typically don't think they are any better and share them because they include everyone in the journey. There are some spiritual snobs to be sure but they are the minority.

Why is there this assumption that people sharing far out stuff think they are more priveldged or greater or further along or something? I know articles like the one question for joo posted are not helping the cause and they perpetuate the further along crapola but not all far out types buy into that shit.

Most people who are genuinely highly aware and not spouting off phalooey they read to sound high and mighty know that there is no where to go a part from anyone because we are one individuated, micros of the macro, all in one and one in all.

I don't understand the cocophoney! Can we have a concensus here on this and bridge some mutual understandings?! :wink:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,329
Loc: On the Border
Re: "Skeptic" on my "skeptisism" [Re: Psiloman]
    #3020573 - 08/18/04 11:21 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I have some problems with "New Age" thought process myself. Many new age ideas are commercialized versions of ancient traditions that have been modified to sell trash to losers. Look at all the crystals, cards, runes, drums, and what not out there for big bucks. I believe that at the bottom of this well, under the sugar coated veneer of the worlds religious traditions, there may be a grain of truth. Reality, I believe, is greater than we are capable of percieving. I also believe that scepticism is a gift, and that anyone who uses it to pierce the veil of our beliefs in the search for ultimate truth is blessed in a very practical sense. I have a great respect for those few who can live "by their own might and main" without recourse to gods or spirits for inspiration. I, as much as I respect science and logical thought, still have not found that I can embrace this way in it's totality. Absolute self reliance is a rare strength that should be praised, but that just ain't me. For those who find their bullshit meter to be more sensitive than their brothers and sisters, this is the path they are meant to walk. See, I can even put a religious spin on scepticism..I guess I am hopeless.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: "Skeptic" on my "skeptisism" [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3020597 - 08/18/04 11:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"For those who find their bullshit meter to be more sensitive than their brothers and sisters, this is the path they are meant to walk. See, I can even put a religious spin on scepticism..I guess I am hopeless. "


awwww...just don't judge yourself so harshly. if you are doing your best, that's all you can ask from yourself....right??


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,329
Loc: On the Border
Re: "Skeptic" on my "skeptisism" [Re: kaiowas]
    #3020639 - 08/18/04 11:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Don't get me wrong. I think I am on the proper path...for me. Here is a quote I think Swami would enjoy concerning this matter.

"All paths are the same: they lead nowhere. However, a path without a heart is never enjoyable. On the other hand, a path with heart is easy?it does not make a warrior work at liking it; it makes for a joyful journey; as long as a man follows it, he is one with it.?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: Beef Jerky

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Birth of a Skeptic
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Swami 4,094 84 02/05/04 07:47 AM
by trendal
* Disillusion
( 1 2 all )
Icelander 1,604 22 11/24/08 05:21 PM
by Icelander
* Skeptics mushiemountain 1,214 10 03/30/07 08:45 AM
by redgreenvines
* Gadflies Without a Sting: The Downside of Skepticism - Deepak Chopra RRRR 837 2 08/11/06 07:06 AM
by Huehuecoyotl
* What Is A Skeptic?
( 1 2 3 all )
Sclorch 3,529 45 04/16/04 12:35 PM
by Anonymous
* The fallacy of skepticism
( 1 2 3 all )
Economist 3,326 43 07/20/07 05:52 PM
by figgusfiddus
* Skepticism is self-destructive
( 1 2 all )
exclusive58 2,327 36 05/11/05 05:30 PM
by Phluck
* "the skeptic"
( 1 2 all )
kaiowas 1,307 20 11/10/03 01:42 PM
by David_Scape

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
978 topic views. 2 members, 6 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Crestline Sales - MycoPath
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.103 seconds spending 0.002 seconds on 14 queries.