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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4713432 -

trendal said:
Irrational beliefs are necessarily false.

Yeah, I always thought that whole Love thing was a scam :smirk:


I would classify love under the non-rational category.


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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4713459 -

Well does that mean that all love is false, then?

If Irrational = False, and Love = Irrational, then Love = False :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4713464 -

I said non-rational, not irrational. Do you not understand the difference?


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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4713471 -

No, actually. Could you explain it?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4713491 -

Quote:
Entry Word: nonrational
Function: adjective
Text: not using or following good reasoning <was so upset that he was completely nonrational for a moment> -- see ILLOGICAL


Quote:
Entry Word: irrational
Function: adjective
Text: not using or following good reasoning <it's irrational to think that you can continue to consume an excess of calories and not gain weight> -- see ILLOGICAL


http://www.webster.com

They both have the same meaning...


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4713552 -

yeah did you just make up the difference?

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: MJF]
    #4713630 -

I think what Paradigm meant was to distinguish between an irrational statement (the sky is green) and an irrational (non-rational in his words) thing (love).

I can point out why love is irrational, but I can't show that it does not exist. However, I can point out why the statement "the sky is green" is irrational by showing that the sky is not green.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4713642 -

Quote:
Ok, but what if I were to inquire as to why someone holds such unverifiable beliefs? What if they state those beliefs as justification for something else? Is that not kosher?


As i see it, it is legitimate to project your beliefs into this reality as long as they don't interfere with other people beliefs. Institutionalized beliefs, aka religions, do try to justify their actions using their beliefs. But IMHO, a spiritual belief comes from the inside and it's projected to the outside, religions work the other way around.

Quote:
Non-rational beliefs are not automatically false. Irrational beliefs are necessarily false.


My English dictionary says :
Quote:
ir?ra?tion?al (-rsh-nl)
adj.

    Not rational; marked by a lack of accord with reason or sound judgment.



:wink:

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4713874 -

Quote:
As has been suggested before, if you don't want your ideas scrutinized, post them in the Pub or preface your post with a Sissy Disclaimer so everyone walks on eggshells in your thread.

Problem solved for both skeptics and those prone to hurt feelings.


Scrutinizing ideas is promoted, but has nothing to do with scrutinizing beliefs. The idea that beliefs related threads should be posted at the Pub, is just a way of killing the "S" of S&P.

Many people fail to understand that there's a line separating spirituality from philosophy. It's true a disclaimer is becoming necessary for people wanting to share their spiritual beliefs without being scrutinized in this forum. I find really sad because it means some people didn't find that line. Maybe some day they will ...

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4714009 -

Philosophy is one of the many methods to discuss spirituality...


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4714028 -

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: MAIA]
    #4714067 -

Scrutinizing ideas is promoted, but has nothing to do with scrutinizing beliefs.

Beliefs are based on ideas. If someone here posts their belief that the Earth is flat, then I'll pick at the ideas from which the belief springs forth.

I'll ask them why they think the Earth is flat. If they say "because it looks flat", then I'll jump on that idea and demonstrate it to be wrong.

As long as the S and the P are together here, this kind of discourse will occur. I've suggested before splitting this place into separate forums, the S where the fluffy people can all hug each other and talk about UFOs, and the P where ideas that don't makes sense will be shown to not make sense.

Splitting the forum, and the the Sissy Disclaimer idea both solve the problem. Why the reluctance?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (09/26/05 12:28 PM)

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4714101 -

Because spirituality without philosophy is only half the fun and respectful communication should be understood.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belittling people? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4714188 -

But several people here want S without dissent and that's incompatible with P.

The S people want to be able to say that they saw the Virgin Mary in their Grilled Cheese Sandwich and have everyone say "ooh, wow, rock on man!".

That will never fly here as long as there's a P in the forum name. However, the S people are free to post pics of their sandwich in the Pub without fear of rationality causing them distress.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4714223 -

Splitting up the forum has been discussed several times, and in every case the response was a majority "don't do it!".

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing two separate forums: Science & Philosophy Forum and the Spirituality & Faith Forum. However the users have spoken, time and time again, against such a course of action.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4714242 -

It might be difficult to split it up but I think it might work.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Icelander]
    #4714259 -

Hey you never know, man. Splitting up OTD into OTD and The Pub has apparently worked wonders - so instead of having one forum full of clashing personalities, we have two VERY active forums with people who tend to gravitate towards eachother.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4714647 -

But several people here want S without dissent and that's incompatible with P.
Hehe, I think that only was an experiment :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Belittling people? [Re: trendal]
    #4714796 -

trendal said:
No, actually. Could you explain it?


Irrational = going against rationality

Non-rational = not having to do with rationality


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Re: Belittling people? [Re: Diploid]
    #4714797 -

Diploid said:
But several people here want S without dissent and that's incompatible with P.



But several people here want P without faith and that's incompatible with S. :wink:

There's two sides here.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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