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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: Swami]
    #4510344 -

Nah, they did it for next to nothing on location in the town where I grew up. (Cavemen and all!) :biggrin:

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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: Veritas]
    #4510371 -

Part II is coming next: From Ape To Man to Woman...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: Swami]
    #4510432 -

Does anyone know when it will be rebroadcast-ed? (I guess I could just go check the TV listing or the history channel website)

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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: Swami]
    #4510792 -

I wanted to plant a question in the minds of people interested in this topic.

There is no evidence for an answer yet, only speculation.

In the show, they documented that science use to think homo sapiens evolved from Neanderthals. Decades later, we developed testing for 40,000 year old DNA and tested the DNA of the Neanderthal looking and expecting to find a match with that of the modern homo Sapien to link the two.

It was too different. They concluded that Neanderthal was a different species. No evolutionary link there.

So, they went back to speculating that homo sapiens must have evolved from homo erectus, as did the Neanderthal.

They claimed what put homo sapien on a different evolutionary path from Neanderthal was a diet of fish. Eating fish makes a protruding brow bone disappear. Eating fish also gives rise to symbolic language, arts and culture.

The question is yet to be answered. What if science figures out to test the DNA of Homo Erectus to make the missing DNA link match with homo sapien and finds the same thing it did with neandrathal, no match enough to be a direct link?

Then what?

And question this smart people of S&P.

If the furthest back we could test DNA looking for matches to modern humans was Neanderthal and it didn't, what makes people so sure, the ones that came before Neanderthal (to old right now to test) will match with homo sapien?

We have ZERO links evidenced by DNA testing yet. We have none between Lucy and Homo Erectus. Doesn't this unsettle anyone? It does me.

Why is it that proponents for Darwinism call people out here on chasm jumping as if its the greatest evil in logical thinking yet ignore the chasm jumping science has done between skulls and bones found?

Or, do you recognize that and question it too in an unsettled manor?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (08/08/05 03:09 PM)

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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: looner2]
    #4510877 -

looner2 said:
Icelander said:
Were you in that war? Wow. an elder you are. :laugh:


Don't you understand? We are ALL one (Homo sapiens that is)... finally I could root for those silly humanistic ideas  :heart:


Well, it's a start. :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4510882 -

We have ZERO links evidenced by DNA testing yet. We have non between Lucy and Homo Erectus. Doesn't this unsettle anyone? It does me.

There are current DNA links in that we share the largest number of genes with chimps (99%) and something like 28% with bacteria. This shows commonality with all life with the most similar looking creatures having the greatest correspondence.

Police have trouble solving a crime after 24 hours. Why would one be unsettled that here we are trying to solve a riddle with the evidence being tens of thousands of years old or more?

There is currently no competing theory that better explains the evidence.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (08/08/05 04:56 PM)

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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: Swami]
    #4511000 -

You can make bread and pretzels pretty much with the same stuff. That doesn't mean one evolved from the other. I think that's chasm jumping.

One woman in France 80,000 years ago could have gathered up some ingredients, experimented with them and made bread. Another woman in South America 40,000 years ago could of gathered up very similar almost identical ingredients, experimented with them and made pretzels.

No competing theory need be required. Why can't humans just admit, we still don't know where humans came from. Why can't they also just say, "We have found bones, dated to this time, in this place, with these similarities to modern humans yet we have no evidence that they are directly evolved from one to the other in a chain link manor.

It's unsettling to me when people talk as if the riddle is settled when, it's clearly not.

Thank you for responding to my reply and questions. You're entitled to feel more sure about it then I am :smile:


edit grammar typos


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (08/08/05 04:12 PM)

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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4513047 -

It's obviously not completely solved, but there a lot of evidence telling us that we are getting close. What about this?

If there is an OBVIOUS lineage from apes to human-esque creatures dating back 3,000,000 years ago to only 40,000, why is the assumption that we as homo sapiens evolved in the same way MORE insane then saying we didn't? There is a clear line pointing at an evolution of ape to man, and just because we don't have one little piece doesn't nullify all the other evidence we have.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: freddurgan]
    #4513658 -

yes, that show is being broadcast in the USA...i missed it though. will try to catch the next airing.

EVERY alleged missing link that had been discovered up to about ten yrs ago have been conclusively disproven as either fraud or mistakenly categorized, etc.... i have heard proponents say there has been one(some?) discovered since then that has not been disproven. i have not delved into this subject in about 10yrs so i am not familiar with their new "evidence".

interestingly many, many, sources still refer to java man, lucy, etc... as though they are still viable evidence.

bottom line is; even if they have any new remains that they claim support their theory, it is still just a theory. the dating methods are flawed and pre-assummed date is given and THEN they attempt to date the remains based on the idea that it came from a certain period in the earths history.

many or most dating labs will not take or test any samples for dating unless you give them a pre-assummed time frame for them to validate. iow dating methods are used to confirm theories, instead of theories being based on the objective date that was concluded by the test.. this is science??


--------------------
Diabetes causes hamsters.

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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: freddurgan]
    #4514248 -

Fred, the line is nothing more then similar O rings laid next to each other to look like a chain. None of the O rings have been linked yet with DNA evidence. They must be linked for there to be an evolutionary chain link event.

From Lucy to Homo Erectus there is no evidence. From Homo Erectus to Homo Sapien there is no evidence.

It raises an eye brow for me that Neanderthal use to be placed in that line between homo erectus and homo sapien until DNA testing, which they were sure would make a match, bumped Neanderthal out of line as a match to us when it didn't match.

They went back to making speculations that both Neanderthal and homo sapien must have evolved from homo erectus and developed a new theory involving a fish diet to support it.

That whole set up raises another eye brow. The theory goes that, as intelligence evolves, brain size and therefor skull size increases. This is what they were looking for to form their line of evolution.

They said that Neanderthal was much less intelligent then Homo Sapien as it did not develop symbolic language, art and culture like homo sapiens did.

Sounds good if you buy what a diet of fish can do over time. Could be. Whats the research testing on it?

How do they explain why Neanderthal had a larger brain and Skull? Does anyone know, I am curious. They are contradicting their own theory with stuff they made up to support it. That raises an eyebrow and looks sort of , um , fishy. :smile:

Regardless, this question remains. What happens IF when they figure out how to test the DNA of Homo Erectus it doesn't match Homo Sapien like Neanderthal didn't? 

Are they going to bump Homo Erectus out of the line next and come up with another theory?

If the current data were presented in a court of law, all the "evidence" would be circumstantial and it would be thrown out of court.

It hasn't been proven or disproven yet. It just remains an interesting and possible theory.

I'm watching developments and am refraining from engaging in wishful thinking and closing the book on it. I am yet applying critical skepticism too it and looking at it logically. I am using Occam's razor to shave off the illusion of "appearances" and the researchers egos involved that act as if its the truth already.

It's okay with me if you have more faith in it panning out. I support peoples dreams. Maybe it will come true. I wish something would solve the mystery already so more time can be devoted to finding cures for cancer, child abuse prevention and cleaning up our polluted waters and beaches.

Ultimately, I don't care if we evolved from Lucy, Rats, Space Scum or were pulled out of a magicians ass. The correct answer given to us doesn't solve any of the problems the world is faced with today.

I take this issue lightly relative to actual modern day problems. Homo sapiens still do a lot of dumb things and still have a lot of evolving to do. Lets work at evolving the intelligence of modern wo/man.

Definetely catch the show. Thanks for telling us about it swami! It kept my attention well!

In the mean time, I eat a lot of fish just in case they are right. It's brain food they say! :wink: :heart: :peace:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4514295 -

Personally I think we were genetically engineered.


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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4514506 -

gettinjiggywithit said:
Ultimately, I don't care if we evolved from Lucy, Rats, Space Scum or were pulled out of a magicians ass. The correct answer given to us doesn't solve any of the problems the world is faced with today.



With that I agree. Sure people will say that it is vital to understanding evolution on the molecular scale and blah blah blah... we can cure diseases, but really it is studied just for the sake of understanding. It really doesn't have any impact on the greater aspects of biology and science as it pertains to human progress.

And no, understanding the phylogenetic tree of some lizard living in cuba doesn't help at all. I don't care what you say.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: looner2]
    #4514807 -

Ever heard of teflon? Sometimes important discoveries come from the strangest of places. Perhaps researching the evolutionary history of man will bring some great discover. Even if it doesn't there is nothing wrong with people researching our past.

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Re: "From Ape to Man" on History Channel at 9 PCT tonight [Re: newuser1492]
    #4522743 -

This is on again tonight (Thursday) at 8pm and 12am Eastern Std Time....


:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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