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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #4494328 -

No, not nealry enough, but you know how funding is. If I were to bioassay plant material, I would first contact the authors about two major issues: is the '4' in the amount aqueous extract MTD a typo? (it is incongruent with their commentary) What is the nature of adverse effects in excessive doses?

Quote:
Going by the effectivness of the plant one would imagine the big pharm corps would be all over it, luckily that doesn't seem to have happened yet.


Oh, it doesn't quite go like that. They need something patentable. If chemists tinker with isolated active compounds, substituting here and there, while retaining or improving activity, it might be patentable, but they like buying rights to such compounds cheaply from universities or other research institutes. Also, companies aren't much interested in analgesics these days (though Actiq was an unexpected blockbuster drug) - relatively very little research going on, and it is mostly centered on finding potent analgesics lacking "abuse potential"; some would argue that's a paradoxical proposal.

As I said, it's only one candidate, and certainly not the most promising one (it's just that I like salvias in general - it's an astounding genus, pharmacologically, and some varieties go very well in a garden). Much more research and experimentation will be needed before we have new kratoms, but if the community works together, it will happen (I believe that in a few years we could have several).
You notice how the plurality of DMT sources made their control unfeasible and unpracticed? Even a country with as strict drug laws as Australia isn't going to uproot all their Maiden's Wattles. We could have a similar situation with opioids.

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: stvip]
    #4494401 -

Quote:
Oh, it doesn't quite go like that. They need something patentable.


I know. What I meant was that it seems (in my limited experience) that pedicularis has the potential to be an awesome sleep remedy with little abuse potential. One could imagine that the pharm companies would at least some interest in it's mode of action so that they could tweak the active up to something patentable, but they never go that route. Apparently they put a lot more energy into lobbying politically for control and limiting public access of natural remedies. Capitalist pigs.

Edited by Young_but_cool (08/04/05 12:31 PM)

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: stvip]
    #4494421 -

Quote:
As I said, it's only one candidate, and certainly not the most promising one


For the record I think it's a pretty damn interesting find. I think I'll pick up some seeds at the garden shop next time I pay a visit. Keep up the good work!

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #4503209 -

It seems someone has already gone through all the trouble for me. Unfortunately, the paper is published in a journal to which my university does not have a subscription. Maybe someone could help rectify this situation?
Here is the article:
"Critical Evaluation of Reported Plant Sources of Possibly Novel Analgesic Compounds"
Reviews in Analgesia, Volume 7, Number 2, 2003, pp. 97-117(21)

Abstract: "A recent publication summarizes the results of a literature search that identified over 200 plants?belonging to more than 70 families found in different parts of the world?that have putative antinociceptive activity in preclinical tests. It is claimed that all of the species (extracts) appear to produce their antinociceptive activity through ?opioidergic receptors.? Such information is extremely valuable, particularly if substances of novel opioid structure or characteristics are discovered. We examined the original articles on 60 of the plants and classified them based on: (1) evidence of antinociceptive activity in the absence of confounding behavioral or toxic effects, and (2) evidence of an opioid mechanism. While the results of almost all of the studies offer interesting leads, nine studies report unequivocal opioid-linked antinociception based on naloxone reversal or radioligand binding data. The structures of four novel putative opioid substances are presented. In addition, interesting novel structure?activity relationships are suggested for the opioids and nonopioids. All of the studies provide novel and fertile material for basic and applied analgesic research."

Ok - myrrh. Yes, I did find some published studies, including the seminal one in Nature, not exactly an obscure publication; I must have mistyped the name (which is strange considering my post about it focused upon its spelling). Not clear whether it acts directly on opioid receptors or indirectly, and whether it is orally bioavailable (one study on rats suggests not), but I'll study this further.
Anyhow, I've contacted Shaman's Palace to see whether he can source any of the items. Except for myrrh, dalea purpurea, dalea candida and salvia nemorosa, I have not been able to locate an easy, as in online and non-wholesale, source for the candidates.

By the way, I ordered dalea purpurea, but should probably have included dalea candida as well. Will someone else here cultivate the candida?

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- [Re: stvip]
    #4604351 -

-

Edited by pod3 (10/26/06 01:01 PM)

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: pod3]
    #4629322 -

1: Tell your mothers to prepare you some hot milk with chocolate. Milk has casomorphin, it's identical to morphine.

Quote:
In 1981, Eli Hazum and his colleagues at Wellcome Research Laboratories in Research Triangle Park, N.C., reported a remarkable discovery. Analyzing samples of cow�s milk, they found traces of a chemical that looked very much like morphine. They put it to one chemical test after another. And, finally, they arrived at the conclusion that, in fact, it is morphine. There is not a lot of it, and not every sample had detectable levels. But there is indeed some morphine in both cow's milk and human milk.


http://www.all-creatures.org/health/breaking.html

Quote:
University of Michigan researchers showed that chocolate does not merely tickle your taste buds; it actually works inside your brain in much the same way opiate drugs do.



2: Tell again your mothers to give you to eat some Panadol telling you that it's a joypill.

Quote:
Jon-Kar Zubieta?s team at the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, US, has confirmed that placebos relieve pain by boosting the release of endorphins.


3: I' ve heard that cum contains about 75% of codeine and morphine. Go participate in a bukake movie.


--------------------
Ask me about my seed collection and trading!

"Of all the things I love the most, my mind is what I miss the most"

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: Tinkal]
    #4629589 -

Not even panadol.Placebo would work even with a sugar pill.

Cum containing codeine and morphine?hehehheheh.No way,it has a lot of putreskins though :laugh:

By the way you might be interested in some Dicentra species and their bulbocapnin content!


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Entheomation's SEED Ethical Vendor Project.Please support it if you value your plants!

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: Psiloman]
    #4629953 -

Quote:
Tell your mothers to prepare you some hot milk with chocolate. Milk has casomorphin, it's identical to morphine.


I only have one. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I've mentioned peptidic opioids from milk and grains. They are certainly not identical to morphine (being peptides, and everything), but it's a very interesting fact (mainly in the theoretical realm). It's not surprising that some morphine could be present in cow's milk - morphine is widespread in the animal kingdom. Most people believe it's a unique feature of P. somniferum (and setigerum). Actually, it's rather surprising, since I've always considered the morphine molecule rather freakish.

Quote:
I' ve heard that cum contains about 75% of codeine and morphine.


Ah yes, that's what I've been telling my girlfriend. Didn't really work, but I see the rumor has begun spreading. Bollocks, of course.

Quote:
Go participate in a bukake movie.


At least this time you've left my mother(s) out of it.

Quote:
By the way you might be interested in some Dicentra species and their bulbocapnin content!


Why?

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: stvip]
    #4630126 -

you could tell your gf that cum has antidepressant effects, because i've actually read a study on that, haha. when it is absorbed in the vagina. so if she's feelin the blues then you know what to do. and when shes alright or happy then just fuck for maintenance purposes :wink:


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: Locus]
    #4630719 -

Bulbocapnin,is reported to have "opioid like " action i think. Some species of this tree were smoked for opiod like effects


--------------------
Entheomation's SEED Ethical Vendor Project.Please support it if you value your plants!

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- [Re: Psiloman]
    #4683195 -

-

Edited by pod3 (10/26/06 12:47 PM)

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: pod3]
    #4683330 -

Sorry ,Bulpocapnine i think.

Try google


--------------------
Entheomation's SEED Ethical Vendor Project.Please support it if you value your plants!

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- [Re: Psiloman]
    #4686176 -

-

Edited by pod3 (10/26/06 12:46 PM)

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: pod3]
    #4686377 -

Bulbocapnine, an antidopaminergic. Nothing much to do with opioids except botanical relationships.

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: stvip]
    #4686495 -

Itself it has nothing to do with opiates :laugh:

But plants containing it (amongst other alkaloids) are described to have an opium like high...Who knows...


--------------------
Entheomation's SEED Ethical Vendor Project.Please support it if you value your plants!

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: stvip]
    #8376938 -

stvip, did you manage to get a copy of the article in the end?

("Critical Evaluation of Reported Plant Sources of Possibly Novel Analgesic Compounds")

Edited by pixeljuice (05/08/08 12:24 PM)

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: pixeljuice]
    #8379304 -

Dude, the thread's 3 years old and that guy hasn't been around for a year. What should this tell you?

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: WeBeBad]
    #8380434 -

he hit the jackpot on natural opiates and has been in a trance ever since?

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: Young_but_cool]
    #8380593 -

Just did my first dose of Kratom earlier today, 1 gram 15X standardized extract from TKK...

Nothing. Put it in juice and drank it all too.

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Re: Opioids from sources other than poppies and kratom (not pharmaceuticals) [Re: WeBeBad]
    #8380655 -

WeBeBad said:
Dude, the thread's 3 years old and that guy hasn't been around for a year.  What should this tell you?


Yeah only noticed after I'd posted. doh. :blush:

Edited by pixeljuice (05/09/08 04:43 AM)

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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